Could this be the end of Roadtrek???

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

I shouldn't get involved in decade old personal arguments ... "armchair engineers" tells the story.

Golee Gee, this armchair engineer only has a BS and MS in Aerospace Engineering from the Univ of Mich and had 37 years of experience before retiring (half my career in Aerospace Guidance, Navigation, and Control systems and the last half in Automotive Electronics development at Ford Electronics/Visteon). Based on this experience, I think I have a pretty good understanding of what it takes to develop vehicle electronics systems. The development process used by Roadtrek for their electronics products was absent all of the essential elements needed to produce a high quality product with the reliability expected by the vehicle owner. The reliability of their systems (many dead on arrival to the dealer and to the customer) was not unexpected for the first try at this type of development given that they didn’t seem to take advantage of any outside expertise in the vehicle electronics. As I mentioned before, if they have learned anything from this it should be to abandon the in house developed electronics systems and switch to outside suppliers and get back their focus on the things that have been successful in the past, designing and manufacturing camper vans with a focus on quality and customer satisfaction.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

"The best example of a company who was doing these systems with high reliability in parallel with Roadtrek is Advanced RV "

Isn't Advanced RV a low volume custom upfitter rather than a manufacturer and at a much higher price point than Roadtrek?

Yes, they are but what does that have to do with delivering trouble free lithium battery systems in the camper vans you produce. They were delivering essentially the same type of system as Roadtrek at the same price point for that portion of the build using outside partners for the battery system components rather than developing their own. The major cost for an ARV doesn’t come from the components that are from outside suppliers (though they do use top of the line components), it comes from the custom design process and superb build of the interiors for each customer.

[booster]

Greg is spot on with everything he said.



I think Ross needs to realize that there are probably many multiples of years of relevant engineering experience on this forum compared to Roadtrek's engineering dept. Heck, Roadtrek farmed out the Ecotrek design to college students, including Hammill's nephew.


But, as usual, all this experience won't count for anything because it is outweighed by Ross's OPINION.


I am approaching 50 years of experience if you include my home engineering projects after retirement. BS Mechanical Engineering from the University of Minnesota Institute of Technology.

[gregmchugh]

One significant factor in the Ecotrek system problems was the inconsistency in the actual wiring of vans. It became apparent from customer reports of problems and system behavior that there was a variation in the actual system wiring between different models and within the same models. Whether this was simply an inadequate process for insuring consistent manufacturing or whether it was due to attempts to get the vans to function before delivery to the dealer is not known.

There was a hope that with the EHG purchase of Roadtrek that they would bring over the quality control practices used in the European operations to correct the quality problems at Roadtrek but while it was claimed that this was done, there continued to be inconsistent quality on Roadtrek builds, whether a customer got a good one or a bad one seemed to be the luck of the draw. If the Roadtrek operations live on it would be paramount to get some quality control into the manufacturing process to get back to their previous quality levels from before the family sold the business to the investment group who eventually sold it to EHG.

[RossWilliams]

"you asked for where that info came from"

No, what I asked was where did this quoted claim come from "could run the AC for 9-12 hours and then recharge the batteries in 45 minutes".

"How many spent $130K on an etrek only to find out they had been lied to?"

I don't know. How many etreks were sold in 2012 based on someone reading a misleading sales pitch? And what makes you think the person who wrote that was lying? It seems more likely that it was someone who didn't know what they were talking about.

Frankly, I'm tired of your ad-hominems. I understand how you ended up in a huge conflict with Roadtrek management.

[RossWilliams]

"the inconsistency in the actual wiring of vans. "

Greg - I agree entirely. The inconsistency is a problem, right down to not even providing owners with the correct manuals. My impression is that they make changes on the fly to correct problems and make improvements. It is a bit seat-of-the pants.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

"you asked for where that info came from"

No, what I asked was where did this quoted claim come from "could run the AC for 9-12 hours and then recharge the batteries in 45 minutes".

"How many spent $130K on an etrek only to find out they had been lied to?"

I don't know. How many etreks were sold in 2012 based on someone reading a misleading sales pitch? And what makes you think the person who wrote that was lying? It seems more likely that it was someone who didn't know what they were talking about.

Frankly, I'm tired of your ad-hominems. I understand how you ended up in a huge conflict with Roadtrek management.

Ross, you need to read. I plainly said that this was a copy paste from Roadtrek literature, and earlier I told you all that had been purged by Roadtrek after they finally gave up trying to defend it.


The data is right in front of you, but you chose not to accept it, so you might as well just tell us to not bother with facts because they don't count for you.


Do you know how your etrek is wired, are you an engineer, have you designed and installed your own RV power systems? Buck up, tell us why you are know that all the data we have given is wrong and your opinion, without any collaborating information, is correct.



If you are not willing to put out any, and I mean any, relevant data on what you claim why would anyone believe anything you say? You claim personal grudges disclaim facts, but what about you who attacks certain individuals on this board for whatever they say? Does that mean all you say is incorrect for only that reason?


I have to admit, Ross, even though I may be more patient than some on here, you are getting pretty tiring.

[booster]

Just a general comment on logic.


How does anyone think that someone on this forum made up/altered a Roadtrek piece of literature, that turned out to be totally inaccurate, in 2012 (before Hammill had alienated anyone) because of a personal grudge that couldn't have existed then? I am astounded.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

"the inconsistency in the actual wiring of vans. "

Greg - I agree entirely. The inconsistency is a problem, right down to not even providing owners with the correct manuals. My impression is that they make changes on the fly to correct problems and make improvements. It is a bit seat-of-the pants.

Do you have an 8 AGM eTrek? Do you have a battery equalizer? Best to find out...

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Do you have an 8 AGM eTrek? Do you have a battery equalizer? Best to find out...

Yep....

[Glamper]

So to change topics...has anyone heard anything new from EHGNA or EGH regarding the future of NA operation?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

"the inconsistency in the actual wiring of vans. "

Greg - I agree entirely. The inconsistency is a problem, right down to not even providing owners with the correct manuals. My impression is that they make changes on the fly to correct problems and make improvements. It is a bit seat-of-the pants.

I do wonder why you are here?

If you are here to get a better understanding of how your van operates and how to operate your van now that Roadtrek has stopped providing detailed instruction manuals with system diagrams then there are people here who enjoy helping new owners. I don’t own a Roadtrek with any of the new technology (2008 RS Sprinter) but I have spent endless time on the Roadtrek and Hyner Owners Group helping new owners with their van questions. Just a retirement hobby to keep my mind active. Roadtrek only recently started providing information on how to effectively use the Ecotrek battery system. Before that it was very difficult to know how to operate the system effectively and this forum and the Owners Group were the places to find out what to do.

Or, are you here for some other reason?

If so, how about letting us know why you are spending time here because I just can’t figure out for the life of me why someone would spend the amount of time you have spent here with no seeming reason for being here other than being the resident contrarian...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Glamper

So to change topics...has anyone heard anything new from EHGNA or EGH regarding the future of NA operation?

If anyone did, I would hope they would post it just to put this thread back on track ...

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

If anyone did, I would hope they would post it just to put this thread back on track ...

No One Is Talking... Not even the employees

Will They Appear? Tradeshow Schedule Pre-Scandal

Houston RV Show
February 6 – February 10, 2019
One NRG Park
NRG Park, Houston, Texas 77054
United States

Jacksonville RV Mega Show
February 7 – February 10, 2019
Jacksonville Equestrian Center
13611 Normandy Boulevard, Jacksonville, FL 32221
United States


Memories...

The Way They Were.... Could it be that it was all so simple then?

[Moonriver]

Received email from Roadtrek today:


Thank you for your e-mail. Today’s update has not changed


We are still involved in a company-wide audit and full inventory count. The initial timing for completion was last week, but that is not the case and it has extended into this week. As you may be aware with this type of activity, any transactions/authorizations, shipment of parts etc are temporarily suspended. We will try our best to keep you updated. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

[RossWilliams]

No Booster, you need to read. The quoted passage you initially posted isn't in the post you copied and pasted from 2012. As for why someone would alter a Roadtrek document, that is not that hard to imagine given this is an internet forum. Finally, you were the one who posted the "armchair engineer" comment attributing it to Hammil. Whatever its merits, it explains your hostility.

Why am I here? Because there are a bunch of people with a grudge against Roadtrek and it management who are not at all clear about why THEY are here. So I bought a Roadtrek and find a bunch of people spewing garbage based on little information. That doesn't mean everything someone says is garbage, but it does mean you ought to assume it might be. And when challenged they resort to personal attacks of fanboy, contrarian, argumentative etc. That's fine, my purpose is the same as yours on that score. I am here to question the credibility of some of the claims made by people who have a grudge against Roadtrek.

[RossWilliams]

"They were delivering essentially the same type of system as Roadtrek at the same price point for that portion of the build"

I doubt that is true. One is manufacturing, the other is custom building. One chooses a system to fit the needs of a single pre-determined owner. The other is manufacturing standard units where the owners have multiple different uses. One can give individual attention and support to each unit and charge appropriately. The other has to consider both the difficulty of installation and quality control on an industrial level and when their are problems, deal with multiple customers and units. And no, the costs are not the same. One has to compete with similar manufacturers, the other only needs to meet the expectations of their buyers.

In short, they are not the same thing anymore than buying a manufactured home is the same as a tract home is the same as a custom built stick house. That doesn't mean you are wrong. It just means that Roadtrek is not the same. Its like saying a tract home builder should use a custom cabinet company to do their cabinet work.

[RossWilliams]

"Do you have an 8 AGM eTrek? Do you have a battery equalizer? Best to find out... "

Yes and almost 4 years later there are apparently no problems with them. But I assumed they would need to be replaced when I bought it. That's because there are a multiple number of things that could lead to battery failure and I suspect the most likely is that they were improperly used/maintained.

But here is a question. Are there any 2015 Etrek's out there without equalizers? I doubt it. Roadtrek has likely installed them under their warranty either when the batteries failed or on request. Or someone decided they could do it better themselves.

What we have is a group of folks with an old grudge going back a very long time. They were called "armchair engineers" and that was an attack on their egos. This thread is filled with their payback.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

No Booster, you need to read. The quoted passage you initially posted isn't in the post you copied and pasted from 2012. As for why someone would alter a Roadtrek document, that is not that hard to imagine given this is an internet forum. Finally, you were the one who posted the "armchair engineer" comment attributing it to Hammil. Whatever its merits, it explains your hostility.

Why am I here? Because there are a bunch of people with a grudge against Roadtrek and it management who are not at all clear about why THEY are here. So I bought a Roadtrek and find a bunch of people spewing garbage based on little information. That doesn't mean everything someone says is garbage, but it does mean you ought to assume it might be. And when challenged they resort to personal attacks of fanboy, contrarian, argumentative etc. That's fine, my purpose is the same as yours on that score. I am here to question the credibility of some of the claims made by people who have a grudge against Roadtrek.

Very good, now that I know why you are here (and it is not to learn anything useful about how your van works or how to operate it), I won’t waste any more time trying to provide you any help with understanding and operating your Roadtrek.

Are there some strong negative statements from people here about Roadtrek and Roadtrek management (some simply opinions and some facts and some rumors and some fake news)? Yes, but there is also a wealth of useful facts about Roadtrek van systems and operating instructions that many owners find useful...

No more responses from me to any of your posts, not interested in feeding the troll...

[mumkin]

Perhaps it is past time to stop feeding the troll...