2018 Coachmen Crossfit

[BBQ]

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Looking good.

Have fun!

[bobojay]

Pics lookin good. The coach batteries are in the same place as they are on our Winnebago ERA.
Isn't that a 50 gallon propane tank? Compared to the 13 gallon one Winnebago uses in their B's. Have to fill too much when you have a propane genset like we do. 18-20 hrs total run time. Like that the propane tank is at least out in the open under there.

Again, thanks for more info....

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by bobojay

Pics lookin good. The coach batteries are in the same place as they are on our Winnebago ERA.
Isn't that a 50 gallon propane tank? Compared to the 13 gallon one Winnebago uses in their B's. Have to fill too much when you have a propane genset like we do. 18-20 hrs total run time. Like that the propane tank is at least out in the open under there.

Again, thanks for more info....

Do you mean a 50 lb propane tank?

[Phoebe3]

They say it's 50 lb / 12 gallons. But then they only fill to 80% so I don't know if the real capacity is 12 gallons or 10 gallons...

If on shore power, the Truma will heat with electricity and saves the propane, so the only strictly-propane item is the cooktop. I don't expect to fill that tank very often.

[bobojay]

LOL, yeah, meant pounds not gallons.....can only be filled to 80% of what the tank total holds. Our ERA has a 13lb tank. Most it's ever taken was 10.8.

And I can tell you, that Truma doesn't use very much propane at all based on Winnebago users reports.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

They say it's 50 lb / 12 gallons. But then they only fill to 80% so I don't know if the real capacity is 12 gallons or 10 gallons...

If on shore power, the Truma will heat with electricity and saves the propane, so the only strictly-propane item is the cooktop. I don't expect to fill that tank very often.

The real capacity is 12 gallons but by law you can only fill it to 80% for safety reasons. So you can get perhaps 9.6 gallons.

[Phoebe3]

Looks like that is part of Ford's RV Prep package: includes dual heavy-duty AGM batteries, modified wiring and heavy-duty alternator. They also include it in the Ambulance package. They might need them for the alternator.

There seems to be a lot of electronics constantly running in the newer vans - I noted when monitoring the GoPower panel that the front batteries were in a constant state of taking a charge, which means they were constantly pulling a small load.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

Looks like that is part of Ford's RV Prep package: includes dual heavy-duty AGM batteries, modified wiring and heavy-duty alternator.

Why 2 batteries under the hood if it isn't for the conversion?

[Phoebe3]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Why 2 batteries under the hood if it isn't for the conversion?

Sorry, Mumkin, I meant to quote your post before my last reply. When I look though the Transit brochure, the RV package (and the ambulance package) state that it includes dual heavy-duty batteries and a heavy-duty alternator. I can only speculate that the dual batteries are required for the alternator.

The batteries under the front seat are quite small. We haven't pulled them (and don't plan to) so we don't know their size, but according to the Ford literature, the standard chassis battery is a 12v 70a. We know the HD batteries are AGM, but don't know what size. If they are also 70a, it makes sense that it might take two for the alternator.

[bobojay]

Phoebe3 you might be a little mis-informed. The size of the chassis battery(s), and number of them, has nothing to do with the size of the alternator. Example only, you can have a lawn mower battery, or any size as long as it's 12 volts with any size alternator. Makes no difference with the output capability of an alternator.

The extra amperage of the optional alternator, and extra battery is because of the expected loads to be put on it by an upfitter, Coachmen, Winnebago, an ambulance maker etc. Those batteries are way bigger amperage capability than 70. Someone here will look the specs up to see what they are....

[BBQ]

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Well, if you have the extra output and no place to put them, what good is it?

[booster]

Originally Posted by bobojay

Phoebe3 you might be a little mis-informed. The size of the chassis battery(s), and number of them, has nothing to do with the size of the alternator. Example only, you can have a lawn mower battery, or any size as long as it's 12 volts with any size alternator. Makes no difference with the output capability of an alternator.

The extra amperage of the optional alternator, and extra battery is because of the expected loads to be put on it by an upfitter, Coachmen, Winnebago, an ambulance maker etc. Those batteries are way bigger amperage capability than 70. Someone here will look the specs up to see what they are....

I would mostly agree with this, as for the actual charging it is completely correct. The batteries will only accept as much current as the want based an the charge voltage. Smaller batteries accept less that more or bigger ones. The alternator could be 1000 amps and the battery will take the same as it would with a 100 amp alternator (unless the alternator is too small to provide all the amps the battery wants).

There is an exception to this, though, IMO. If the batteries are low, and particularly AGMs, if they are charged for longer periods (maybe over 30 minutes for many) at 40% or more amps of capacity in AH (40 amps or more on a 100ah battery) they can get too hot and that can shorten their life. That is why you see temperature correction on good battery chargers. They will turn down the voltage to reduce the the amps when hot batteries are seen.

It is very possible that Ford has this covered, as many of the setups in OEM vehicles check both amps and volts to the batteries and would limit the current to them to safe levels for no overheating.

[Phoebe3]

Here is the 2017 Transit Brochure.

http://www.ford.com/services/assets/...cial&year=2017

Page 14 shows the 70a battery and 150a alternator as standard equipment.

Page 15 shows the RV prep package, which includes a Modified Vehicle Wiring System and Trailer Wiring Provisions Package (requires dual batteries and heavy duty alternator).

So probably the dual batteries are for the additional wiring and the alternator is beefed up to cover the batteries. Does that sound right?

The dual batteries are deep cycle 70a AGM. On the Transit forum, it looks like the heavy duty alternator is 250a but I have not found a Ford reference yet.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by bobojay

Phoebe3 you might be a little mis-informed. The size of the chassis battery(s), and number of them, has nothing to do with the size of the alternator. Example only, you can have a lawn mower battery, or any size as long as it's 12 volts with any size alternator. Makes no difference with the output capability of an alternator.

Yes, and no. There are no survival consequences for an alternator that serves small batteries, but the converse deserves some qualification. There are potential consequences for alternators without heat protection that support large and very large battery banks. When large AGMs (e.g. multiple 4Ds or 8Ds) with very low internal resistance are installed, during recovery from a deep battery discharge, the OEM alternators would deliver pedal to the metal and overheat to the point of trashing the diodes or melting winding insulation. It was a chronic problem for diesel pushers because the alternator location precluded it from the benefit of ram air.

No question, things are changing for the better. It's one of the reasons that Roadtrek, et al, employ the Balmar or similar regulator which is capable of measuring alternator operating temperature and will back down alternator output to a level that prevents it from burning up. That derating can be as much as 50%. The Nations 280 amp alternator throttles down to the whereabouts of 150 amps when hot.

[booster]

You also have that most of the new factory alternator setups will have the current measuring at the batteries to take care of the heat issue, and may also have temp sensors or turn down internally. The biggest issue would probably be if you are running extra batteries beyond the ones where the factory measures the current and get too high of an output for too long and it doesn't have temp sensor in it. That is likely why MB has a limit on the extra load that can be pulled off the OEM setup and all the engine generators are standalone with separate regulators for that reason. I don't know if Ford or FC have similar extra load limits, or not. It probably would depend on what kind of alternator protection they have built into the system.

If folks are using many of the internally regulated alternators, like the replacement DC Power units, they have internal regulators that have 3 stages of high temp limiting built into them. I think that is part of any unit that uses a Denso style internal regulator.

[Firesteel]

I am going to guess the second chassis battery is more for the "and ambulance prep"...ambulances are diesels and our Ford E350 diesel had two chassis batteries.

[Davydd]

I'm guessing whether Ford is installing one battery or two batteries is only for the coach needs and house needs are very minimal or secondary if at all considered. So, what are the house needs covered in the Coachmen Crossfit by the upfitter?

The dual alternator setup with the Nations throttled down to 150 amps is very real and why Advanced RV abandoned the Nations alternator. The whole thing of running a second alternator and high capacity batteries beyond maybe 400ah and auto start was for air conditioning and it couldn't keep up.

[Phoebe3]

Originally Posted by bobojay

...!

Something else I just thought of, what brand is the converter and does it have the smart charging feature?

Sorry this took so long. I haven't opened the bench seats yet, but did finally get through the included literature so here's what we've got:

WFCO Ultra III Deckmount Converter WF-9800 Series. (actual model number is on the unit and I haven't opened the seat)

Info page says: "All WFCO power converters are automatic three-stage switching power supplies. The converter senses which mode it needs to be in by checking the RV system voltage.

"The three modes/stages are:
Absorption (normal) about 13.6 Vdc.
Bulk (charge) about 14.4 Vdc for max of 4 hours
Float (Trickle) about 13.2 Vdc. If converter senses a demand (such as switching on lights), the converter automatically returns to Absorption mode."

Also installed are the WFCO T-30 which provides 30 amp AC service and the WFCO Ultra III Distribution Center Model WF-8930/50, which contains the fuses and breakers.

I can't give an opinion of the wiring since we haven't opened the benches yet, but I hope this answers some of your questions.

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

Sorry this took so long. I haven't opened the bench seats yet, but did finally get through the included literature so here's what we've got:

WFCO Ultra III Deckmount Converter WF-9800 Series. (actual model number is on the unit and I haven't opened the seat)

Info page says: "All WFCO power converters are automatic three-stage switching power supplies. The converter senses which mode it needs to be in by checking the RV system voltage.

"The three modes/stages are:
Absorption (normal) about 13.6 Vdc.
Bulk (charge) about 14.4 Vdc for max of 4 hours
Float (Trickle) about 13.2 Vdc. If converter senses a demand (such as switching on lights), the converter automatically returns to Absorption mode."

Also installed are the WFCO T-30 which provides 30 amp AC service and the WFCO Ultra III Distribution Center Model WF-8930/50, which contains the fuses and breakers.

I can't give an opinion of the wiring since we haven't opened the benches yet, but I hope this answers some of your questions.

Thanks, excellent info.

[bobojay]

Bet it's a 9845 model Converter