New Class B Home Build

[rauscs]

Just Beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

[Davydd]

I like the quality of your build. My first Class B was off the shelf in you get what you got without a lot of practical experience. I chose Pleasure-way more for the quality than anything. My second van was Great West Vans because they had a lot of innovation in design and the founding owner was a genius and used his products. My third and fourth van was a continuation of innovation and my fourth van was a total custom design unlike anything else. I have a penchant to do it myself. I designed, cut and built a heavy timber frame home with wood-pegged mortise and tenon joints in my active younger years. I had no carpentry experience when I undertook that task. I probably spent way too much on my fourth van but it was innovation and ideas I was mostly interested in and I could afford it and ARV agreed to build it.

There was a supposition earlier in this thread about increasing the GVWR. I was told by Advanced RV that VB Air Suspension does not add to the 9050 GVWR but does add weight to the build so penalizes what you can carry. They couldn't build a delivered 2500 Sprinter greater than 7400 lbs. which included a full diesel tank but not water and waste. So that gave me 1650 lbs to work with. A gallon of water weighs 8.35 lbs and my 40 gallon tank can carry 334 lbs. Assuming waste with a plus allowance, because I have 51 gallons of black and grey, if I dump and fill simultaneously is a trade off then I can load 1300 lbs. rounded off. I doubt I would ever load up the van including our 350 combined lbs. with 950 more lbs. So I think I am good. Most every builder builds on the dually 3500 Sprinter chassis when they go to the 170WB.

I had VB Air Suspension in my previous van. It takes sway and bounce out but does nothing for jarring bumps since the front suspension doesn't have VB. Since we don't have anyone riding in the back the bounce was unimportant. I did upgrade my shocks, put in Sumo springs, substituted alloy wheels and Michelin Agilis tires.

ARV also installs hydraulic levelers. That adds about 300 lbs so I didn't opt for them. Most people do. So far that was a good decision. in over 17,000 miles on the road we have used leveling lego like blocks but once.

ARV started out with an exclusive deal with the Australian Houghton AC. It appears that has gone away. It is more efficient and much quieter than my previous three air conditioners. If you can get it, it is a no brainer.

ARV was first with high capacity lithium battery banks actually beating out Roadtrek and doing it right. They also were the first with the Volta lithium system which others have adopted since. I installed neither opting for four 138ah lithium ion Valence batteries for 552ah down from my 800ah previous battery bank. That was my practical experience kicking in. I first thought I would install six batteries but at the last minute opted for two under bed drawers instead. I think 400ah is a good decision.

I've had the Nations second alternator in my previous van and upgraded to a Delco-Remy 330 second alternator. There is a world of difference but any second alternator, IMO, is better than an Onan generator. You should consider a second alternator. I think the Sprinter alternator was 40 amps not 80 contribution to the house. You should check that. With 400ah you would need nearly 8 hours of driving to top off your batteries. If 80 amps then it would be 4 hours. I get at least 270 amps per hour average so could charge 400ah battery bank in 1.25 hours of driving or probably less than 2 hours of driving with a Nations. I'm assuming 320 usable amp hours with a 20% shut down.

[Philip53]

Hey Davydd, thanks for commenting here. I have read many of your posts and have always appreciated your experiences and insights into RV's. I really like those ARV's!!

I have also done a bit of mortise & tenon timber framing joinery, but never had the stars line up to complete an entire post & beam timber home. I have, though, used this technique in building small areas of my daughter's and son's homes, as well as mine, with some large timbers and posts. I had bought a WoodMizer sawmill some years back & have a fair stock of quarter sawn boards and beams that I use to build a few pieces here and there. I chose bamboo on the van build for several reasons, the first being that it was straight and true, and the edges I think are very eye catching, so cabinets, door frames and counter tops would be a bit 'easier' to build with no edge banding. Plus it had a lighter hue than the oak I am more accustommed to using on the few pieces I have made.

I would imagine the only way to get added 'approved' load carrying capacity would be to buy a factory certified vehicle with more stated carrying capacity. Having said that, the additional bracing for the VB suspensionn HAS to add more rigidity & strength to the rear frame - certified or not. My last RV, as I had mentioned earlier was a '17 Navion, with the 3500 chassis. It handled OK, within limits, but needed Agile modified Fox Shocks & SuperSprings added rear leafs for the additional weight, and Sumos on the front end. BUT, THE SINGLE BIGGEST PROBLEM we had was the jarring rear end - it was AWFUL. One night, coming through the elevated interstate in Shreveport, LA, I had had enough. I got home, went straight to the computer and searched for a better solution for that damned jarring rear suspension. Now, please note that on smooth, but very undulating roads, the Navion felt great, but as soon as it encountered a sharp vertical edge such as a bridge transition, or 'slipped' concrete pavement sections, there was a horrible vertical motion that sounded like the cabinets were going to come off the walls. In my searching on line, I quickly found the VB and Glide Rite full air suspensions, but my wife would shoot me if I had proposed going that route. Instead, I landed on the Kelderman 2-stage air suspension system that used the existing spring pack, but added their rear bag system as the mount for the rear eyes of the stock spring pack. This was a big improvement! I also mounted an on board air compressor, with controls in cab where I could adjust the rear air pressures easily while driving. Somewhere along here I swore I would NEVER have a Sprinter without FULL rear air suspension. I installed the VB set up at about the 500 mile mark on this new van. I will say that the 2500 chassis does not benefit as much as would the 3500 dual rear wheel chassis, but I am thankful EVERY time I drive the van, for that VB suspension. It constantly keeps the van level and at the right spring 'tension'.

This van build was my first ever experience with lithium batteries, and I must say I am in heaven! I had to do a lot of research on them, since they are SO different than my previous experiences with lead acid. It had never occurred to me that I could power my AC unit with batteries, but a friend that was doing a van build as well, made the suggestion that I could run the AC unit for short durations with the 400ah lithiums (he built his own 1100ah battery bank). That sounded great for those travelling nights when we would stay at a rest area or such, and just needed to cool down the van before we went to sleep - and so far that has worked great! Since at this point I had already wired and finished most of the interior, I had to find a way to power the AC unit by the battery bank instead. I was able to find an available spot where I was able to install a three position rotary switch, where I can choose straight 120v shore/gen power, or power from the battery bank (through the inverter).

For charging the battery bank, I have two Victron Orion 30A chargers, and if the sun is out, the 400w solaria panel can add another 30 amps. I have seen 90+ amps on my BMV 712 monitor occasionally, while driving. In addtion to my Touch 50 display mounted centrally in the van, I have that 712 monitor mounted near my driver's seat so I can easily check the house battery bank status while driving. And as I have not yet depleted my batteries below 40%, I can recharge the batteries in fairly short order. So far, my drive time has easily exceeded my battery charging demands, so no problems yet, in 10,000 miles. I don't think in my case I would ever need to install a 2nd alternator.

I don't have a built in generator, (or propane) on this built. I specifically did not want either, after having had both in my previous two RV's. I do however, have a space under one of the beds where I can carry a Honda EU2200 generator. In fact, I carried it on the last trip up into Canada and back -3200 miles, and never used it. But it is there if I need it.

Thanks again for your advice and help. And to everyone that makes contributions to this forum.

[GeorgeRa]

Very nice built, congratulations. Fully finished DIY are rarely seen, original enthusiasm usually wears off fast while asymptotically approaching finish line. My DIY van is 9 years old and I still have some work to do like for example front overhead shelf with good balance of overhead clearance and capacity, unfortunately not available on the DIY market.

My van is 2500 144” WB with much smaller tanks than yours, our fully loaded is about 7,600 lbs. Your van fully loaded (400 lbs. waste / over 300 lbs. fresh) is impressive at 8,800 lbs.

Bamboo looks very good; I was considering it as well but ultimately opted for HDPE. Is your cabinetry framed or you relied on walls and how thick are they?

Did you use 2D or 3D CAD in your design phase?

[Philip53]

Hello George, and thank you! I have read, with interest, your posts over the last couple of years.

And like you, there always seems to be something else left to do, finish, or modify. If you have read all the posts here, a couple folks asked about the bathroom door, or lack of. I had just started a half door the day I posted this thread, and installed it yesterday - I'll post a pic later. It makes the interior look a bit more finished.

The cabinetry has no steel or aluminum framework, but is very well braced with steel brackets, straps & other reinforcement where necessary to secure to the floor, wall and ceiling structure. I used pocket hole joinery to join the plywood together. When I picked up my van in Houston, I went directly to a specialty building products 'store', and picked up 3 sheets each of 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4' carburized bamboo. Interestingly, they are all exactly the dimensions given, not undersized as most plywood is. The main lower cabinets are all built with 1/2" cabinet grade plywood - some I spray painted, but for some areas I bonded 1/4" bamboo to the 1/2" plywood. The upper cabinets were where I had to put a lot of thought into. I did not want them to be heavy, becuse of their high position, but they had to be extremely strong. In the end, I was very pleased with the manner in which I chose. They are extremely light, but very strong, being bolted to both the sidewall and the roof main cross beams (I use that word very loosely). Of course, the biggest challenge is to secure them well, yet not have all of those fasteners exposed, and still retain a trim & neat appearance. I will include a few pictures here, I hope they will make sense. I also wanted them canted down & outward to provide a little more head clearance, but I still manage to bang into them occasionally. I'll try to describe my upper cabinet mounting method, please bear with me: You'll notice I kept the OEM headliner in place - trying to keep a factory look about the van. I started by installing some specially machined & milled 1X4's along the sides, bolted into the structure with nutserts. These fit behind the recess where the ceiling panels lower edge snaps into elongated holes in the van. These 1X4's really acted only as spacers upon which I could secure the bottom of the cabinets through to the steel structure of the van. I had mounted additional inserts into the structure for the cabinets to bolt to, and had to drill corresponding holes through the 1X4's where the cabinet mounting bolts could pass through. The lower ceiling panels had to have matching clearance holes as well. The biggest challenge was how to secure the upper cabinet supports. I had installed nutserts in many of the upper ceiling cross beams before I had re-installed those finished ceiling panels, taking special notes on where they were - exactly! After the ceiling panels were installed (after insulation and wiring, etc.), I used a small hole saw to cut out access holes for those inserts. I then mounted an aluminum angle (lengthwise with the van), into those inserts, using a 5/8" nut as a spacer, and the wedge shaped piece shown in the photo below to give me the slightly canted cabinet profile. I then fabricated each complete upper cabinet face frame out of 3/4" bamboo, and screwed it directly to the aluminum angle, from the inside - where no apparent mounting method or screws are visible. Then, using pocket hole tech, I mounted several horizontal pieces from the lower edge of the cabinet face frame into another milled wood piece that bolted through the wall into the those previously installed wall nutserts. When finished, I could grab the lower door frame and shake the entire van! Came out much better than I had hoped.

The center van full height walls that enclose the shower, pantry cabinet, fridge-freezer-microwave areas, all were braced to the ends of all of those aluminum angles giving them tremendous additional longitudinal strength. I sure did not want any errant cabinets flying around in case of an accident.

No CAD here, I am not that adept at computers. I just used the old tried & true method - a lot of sketches, drawings and many, many measurements and patterns.

[Philip53]

A couple more cabinet photos.

[GeorgeRa]

Thank you for the update, based on your write-up I can tell you truly live through it. One of the major benefits of DIY is complete knowledge about you conversion, you will never have to go to an RV shop nor get stranded due to RV conversion.

I also had to figure out how to attach overhead cabinets below factory headliner and publish the method on the Sprinter Forum, since it has been copied several times. Using the factory headliner saved me a lot of times and it has factory fit and finish. https://goo.gl/photos/D6ScLYL9UYFbcw3n8.

Asimba2 from the Sprinter Forum put a great video for mounting O/H cabinets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfK4SDDFkrI

[Philip53]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Thank you for the update, based on your write-up I can tell you truly live through it. One of the major benefits of DIY is complete knowledge about you conversion, you will never have to go to an RV shop nor get stranded due to RV conversion.

I also had to figure out how to attach overhead cabinets below factory headliner and publish the method on the Sprinter Forum, since it has been copied several times. Using the factory headliner saved me a lot of times and it has factory fit and finish. https://goo.gl/photos/D6ScLYL9UYFbcw3n8.

Asimba2 from the Sprinter Forum put a great video for mounting O/H cabinets.

That blue reference tape, below the headliner looks just like my van did at that point! Ha ha! Those are certainly some great looking cabinets with a very similar overall design. I know you have probably seen it, but gltrimble on the Sprinter forum has a great write up on his 'Baby Shamu' conversion: https://sprinter-source.com/forums/i...q=baby+shamu&c[title_only]=1&c[users]=gltrimble&o=relevance

You are right on the major benefit of doing your own conversion - you know everything about it, and how to diagnose any potential problems.

My biggest reason though, aside from the monetary savings, was that I was fed up with the crappy build and component quality (have I said that before?) of my previous RV's. Since I had to fix or replace so much stuff on them, I thought I would just build my own. Of course it was difficult, but that was to be expected especially in a one-off design and build.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Philip53

………………………………….. I know you have probably seen it, but gltrimble on the Sprinter forum has a great write up on his 'Baby Shamu' conversion: https://sprinter-source.com/forums/i...q=baby+shamu&c[title_only]=1&c[users]=gltrimble&o=relevance……….

I have watched his DIY progress from the beginning exchanging messages a few times. Great built indeed.

My project was driven by the lack of the desired camper van on the market. With our experience with 2 VW Westfalias (1977/1985) we wanted to go back to a simple camper van moving away from pulling our heavy trailer, none were available so we converted new 2013 144” WB passenger van. Love it since.

[Philip53]

Thanks for the links.

That is a super clean, impressive build. Great looking van!

[Philip53]

To (mainly), peteco and booster:

Here are some pics of the 1/2 door to the shower/bath that I started on the other day. Since you had an interest in the shower unit, here you go......

After seeing the door in place, I think I need a little something to cover/hide the top part of the shower. Since I have room above the swing out curtain rod, I think I may put a very small curtain track on the ceiling, which would be hidden by the top bamboo rail, and have a short curtain that would pull across the opening. This would strictly be for appearance and would provide no other benefit. Well, my wife may like that it would increase her privacy if she was uh, uh....doing some business.

The frame is the same 3/4" bamboo that I used for the other doors, with a slot cut into the inside perimeter for the 1/4" white acrylic panel.

[GeorgeRa]

You could copy a well done shower curtain by Advanced RV with a metal bracket pushing curtain away from the shower allowing for more elbowroom. I don’t know if this is their design as they copied other folks sometimes. Dave will likely know which van was it.

[Philip53]

That's the idea of the fold out rod assy. you see in my last pics. I had seen the ARV one a couple years ago. What I found though, is this Stromberg fold out rod assembly that I think works better, as it provides hanging storage while folded inside the shower.

https://www.amazon.com/Stromberg-Car...productDetails

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

You could copy a well done shower curtain by Advanced RV with a metal bracket pushing curtain away from the shower allowing for more elbowroom. I don’t know if this is their design as they copied other folks sometimes. Dave will likely know which van was it.

ARV came up with it but I would not be surprised if it was first a request by a customer though Mike Neundorfer, the president, is no slouch with innovation. They combine it with a Dutch door.

I challenged them with making zero-gravity electric articulating beds and they came through though it was an arduous task. Dozens have been put in ever since with modifications by customers.

The tables I put in were originally designed by Fred Algren in his custom van built in the N1T era though another customer first introduced Lagun tables which I felt were a bit overkill.

The Solar Womp van was conceived by a customer desiring to attend Burning Man, a festival in August in the Nevada desert. That spurred 1200 watts of solar panels, large lithium battery system, the second alternator, a split AC system and several other innovations in a van to survive boondocking for a week.

I think there are other companies now willing listen to their customers and ideas. That's a good development. Used to be buying a Class B was like buying a car in you got what was offered. DIY was always around but I think constrained by one person's abilities. My very first 1968 used Chevy van I converted in a Navy base parking lot was nothing but an air bed in the back with few a few storage amenities. Just a steel tent. I didn't even know about campervan concepts back then.

[Philip53]

As I am sure you and many others have noticed, Class B's have had a huge increase in popularity in the last several years. When we attended the Winnebago annual convention 3 years ago in my Navion, there was a large complement of their Class B's in attendance. The Winnebago folks made a really big deal of complementing them, and stating that was the largest number of their van conversions to ever attend one of their conventions. It was obvious they were beginning to pay more attentioin to this market segment.

When we took our first long trip in our new van a few months ago, out to Death Valley, and the other notable southwestern national parks, we were amazed at the number of vans we saw travelling and camping. There seemed to be about an equal mix of OEM's, and conversions - both DIY and pro builders.

With more customers, and potential profit, greater innovations will follow.

[Boondocker]

This looks amazing, Philip. As others have said, this looks as professional as any professional conversion! Thanks for sharing your photos and enjoy it!

[Philip53]

Thanks Boondocker, I really appreciate the kind complement!

I did do one other thing, just recently, - I added a little paint on each side. I have always liked the way the crew van looked, with the black glass all the way down the van sides. Especially the silver vans. After much arguing with myself, I had the two panels painted, as shown in the pics below. This was not an easy decision, as the ramifications were pretty severe if this did not turn out well.

Previous to this, I had done everything on the van for the conversion, but was apprehensive about taking this rather drastic step myself. I could have painted it, as I have done some painting, but not on a new vehicle. So in the end, I did let a 'professional' do the painting, but since he could not fit the van into his paint booth, or building for that matter, he painted it outside in the elemens and it does have a couple blemishes. But I can live with that.

What do you think, should I have left it the way it was?

[GeorgeRa]

I started my DIY with a passenger van so I got accustom to this look off all windows. Looks good!

[rauscs]

I really like the paint. I thought about doing that on our 190P. Maybe I'll try vinyl or plastikote first...

[Davydd]

Mies has a similar sliding window in my lower bunk bed with the surround paint. The sliding window was put in because the sliding door when open slides over it precluding putting a projecting awning window like installed on the sliding door. The other side rear panel is painted black but has no window because storage and bathroom is all there is. The upfront driver's side galley does have a full coverage awning window matching the sliding door. The surround black paint was just for looks too. Rear doors are the standard windows though the driver side rear window covers only storage. The passenger side rear window you can look out from both beds.

On the roof since this photo shows it, is ARV's standard fixed skylight over the bathroom and a marine hatch skylight over the upper bunk bed. There is a Maxfan, a directional TV antenna and the Houghton air conditioner over the kitchen galley, not the beds. As you can see, no solar.