Zion dual dump system

gerrym51 · 03-04-2015, 07:01 PM

video of zions dual dump is on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swRXxnHDMBA

[youtube:fwrbkqbe]swRXxnHDMBA[/youtube:fwrbkqbe]

booster · 03-04-2015, 07:46 PM

That is exactly the system that I had always said that manufacturers should build in, as it would work great, be less messy, and not cost much more than adding a valve and cap. I don't know why it has taken so long to do. It is essentially the same as the one I built for our 190 Chevy, except they don't have to go all the way across the van with it, so it gets a lot easier and has a lot less plumbing.

Where do they store the slinky, if one comes with it. Nice to see they wised up and went to a Sanicon hose so they can have the small box for it. No valve on it, though, which is a bummer.

gerrym51 · 03-04-2015, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

That is exactly the system that I had always said that manufacturers should build in, as it would work great, be less messy, and not cost much more than adding a valve and cap. I don't know why it has taken so long to do. It is essentially the same as the one I built for our 190 Chevy, except they don't have to go all the way across the van with it, so it gets a lot easy and has a lot less plumbing.

Where do they store the slinky, if one comes with it.

Booster-i don't know yet. i am gong to replace the termination cap with one that has a hose connection and use that to dump just gray water using one of those stretch hoses you see on tv. if roadtrek does not give you a dump hose carrier( i don't know) i may just carry a 5 foot one for emergencies or not at all. i think most of us who desired this dual dump wanted it for emergencies(macerator not working) i may wait for an emergency then buy(or try to borrow ) one.

this is the hose bayonet

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006N ... UTF8&psc=1

booster · 03-04-2015, 08:14 PM

I just went back through the videos and there was no mention of dual dump in them that I saw. It is currently listed in the Features section of the Roadtrek site, but I don't remember seeing it there before, but could have missed it. At the Minneapolis show, we talked to them about dumping and failures of pumps, and they didn't say anything about the Zion system, and the prototype had that side closed up tight. Was that always the way it was, or did they decide to do it near the end of the prototyping, which is what I think may have happened with the forward facing couch option. Whatever the way it wound up on the Zion, I think it should be considered a huge plus over the competition, everyone seems to be very concerned about pump failures, and this totally removes the issue.

gerrym51 · 03-04-2015, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

I just went back through the videos and there was no mention of dual dump in them that I saw. It is currently listed in the Features section of the Roadtrek site, but I don't remember seeing it there before, but could have missed it. At the Minneapolis show, we talked to them about dumping and failures of pumps, and they didn't say anything about the Zion system, and the prototype had that side closed up tight. Was that always the way it was, or did they decide to do it near the end of the prototyping, which is what I think may have happened with the forward facing couch option. Whatever the way it wound up on the Zion, I think it should be considered a huge plus over the competition, everyone seems to be very concerned about pump failures, and this totally removes the issue.

booster- although it's not been on prior videos it has been on all printed material i have seen on the zion going back to december.
yesterday on the roadtrekking facebook page i asked jim hammill if it was a misprint or if it was actually dual dump. he obliged with this video today.

why they did it-i can't answer cause i don't know

markopolo · 03-05-2015, 03:33 PM

The dual dump system on the Roadtrek Zion is a good idea. They might figure out how to do it on other models too.

Hard to tell how hidden it will all be when looking at it from a normal viewing angle. Hopefully there's some space somewhere for a 3" traditional hose and fittings.

Only 1 valve shown on the gravity dump part so there must be more to the system than shown if there are two waste tanks.

markopolo · 03-05-2015, 03:48 PM

I see the other two valves now. More like a "cleaner" clean out type system using the extra valve instead of a threaded plug.

It's a useful feature for sure

booster · 03-05-2015, 03:50 PM

When I brightened up the video, it looked like the black and grey valves are on each side of the gravity dump, which makes sense. Nice that there is very little volume after the gravity valve to the cover to keep clean. The pump must go out the back of gravity dump area and enter at the top of the box for the hose.

ooops-typing slower than Marko on this.

markopolo · 03-05-2015, 04:26 PM

I wonder if they could put a red or some other color handle on that extra Valterra valve. And a sticker "Gravity Dump Handle Only" on the flat body of the valve.

Black tank - black valve
Gray tank - gray valve

booster · 03-05-2015, 04:41 PM

Like this

markopolo · 03-05-2015, 05:07 PM

I forgot you did that

but subconsciously stored your great idea!

Yes, exactly like that!

Davydd · 03-05-2015, 11:34 PM

Great West Vans and Advanced RVs are set up with dual gravity and macerator dump systems. We had an interesting test today. We arrived at a dual dump station almost to the same second as another big RV 5th wheeler. They gravity dumped and we used the macerator. The other guy was very efficient but we finished first and had our hose put away before he finished dumping. He also left a hosed down wet area. We didn't. I'm convinced of the macerator now.

booster · 03-05-2015, 11:59 PM

I think the Great West and Advance RV systems are not true dual dumps, though, as you have to move the hose off the macerator to gravity dump and that is a messy area. The Zion system (and ours) have an extra gate valve at the gravity dump, so you can hook up to it just like you would if it was the only dump. Much neater and cleaner, I think.

The Zion is the first one I have seen, on a small RV anyway, that had true dual capability, which truly amazes me because doing it is so easy.

Davydd · 03-06-2015, 12:09 AM

Our macerator bayonet mounts to the 3" outlet. The valves are up flow from the bayonet mount. So all we would have to to is disconnect the macerator with a twist and hook up a slinky. Great West Van might be a little more complicated than ours with a connecting hose fro the 3" outlet over to the macerator. They've had two different versions. Our Great West van was gravity only.

The point of all this is with the other Roadtrek models and anyone else with macerator only systems is you were in deep sh*t if the macerator failed and that I never understood. As I pointed out I became a macerator convert and would only gravity dump now if I had a macerator failure.

booster · 03-06-2015, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davydd

Our macerator bayonet mounts to the 3" outlet. The valves are up flow from the bayonet mount. So all we would have to to is disconnect the macerator with a twist and hook up a slinky. Great West Van might be a little more complicated than ours with a connecting hose fro the 3" outlet over to the macerator. They've had two different versions. Our Great West van was gravity only.

That is how I thought they worked, both systems. If you ever have to use that system, if you pump fails, you will find that the entire area between the pump and the valves is full of "stuff". Even if you haven't opened the valves, you will find that the pumps don't get the pipe totally clean and flushed when used, so there will also still be "stuff". The Zion system eliminates all of that mess, and hassle.

avanti · 03-06-2015, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

I think the Great West and Advance RV systems are not true dual dumps, though, as you have to move the hose off the macerator to gravity dump and that is a messy area. The Zion system (and ours) have an extra gate valve at the gravity dump, so you can hook up to it just like you would if it was the only dump. Much neater and cleaner, I think.

The Zion is the first one I have seen, on a small RV anyway, that had true dual capability, which truly amazes me because doing it is so easy.

Well, yes, I guess so. Indeed, as I mentioned in a previous thread, I intend to rework our GWV using the Valterra T1037:

Having said that, I'm not losing sleep over it. I am not even going to bother to add a third gate valve. I will pop off the end cap if the need ever arises (the "stuff" will be a small amount of gray water. I can live with that).

When we got our Airstream Interstate in 2005, I installed a macerator before we ever used the toilet (it was dual-dump, which was very easy in that rig since it was a single-tank system--which makes far more sense than the silly grey/black setup we all have now). I carried a factory-fresh slinky for 8 years and passed it on to the next owner just as fresh. I aspire to do the same with the slinky I am carrying around now. Hope the same for all of you.

booster · 03-06-2015, 12:54 AM

With the cross fitting, you will have an opportunity to minimize the mess situation, if you can get a bit of slope from the fitting to the pump. That way much less will be left in the fitting and valve area, unless the valves have already been pulled. Also having a cap to remove helps because you can have a bucket there to catch whatever comes out. Having to remove the pump, with will probably still have the discharge line on it, and would be at the low spot in the system, would be considerably messier than what you will be doing.

avanti · 03-06-2015, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

Having to remove the pump, with will probably still have the discharge line on it, and would be at the low spot in the system, would be considerably messier than what you will be doing.

Just to be clear, even with my current setup, I do not have to remove the pump. There is a flexible hose connecting the bayonet connection to the (permanently-mounted) pump. So, I would simply have to remove that hose and replace it with the slinky. I would certainly seek a bucket if I ever had the pleasure.

Good idea to try to get a down-slope to the pump. Thanks.

booster · 03-06-2015, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avanti

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

Having to remove the pump, with will probably still have the discharge line on it, and would be at the low spot in the system, would be considerably messier than what you will be doing.

Just to be clear, even with my current setup, I do not have to remove the pump. There is a flexible hose connecting the bayonet connection to the (permanently-mounted) pump. So, I would simply have to remove that hose and replace it with the slinky. I would certainly seek a bucket if I ever had the pleasure.

Good idea to try to get a down-slope to the pump. Thanks.

Removing the pump is the ARV setup, sorry for the confusion. On yours you remove the hose that is the inlet to pump and hook the dump hose to that, if I remember correctly.

The best thing is that there are now a variety of systems out there to address the macerator failure issues that have scared folks. My bet is that they will quickly be very similar to each other, and be very easy to use in the field. Nothing but good can come from all this.

Davydd · 03-06-2015, 02:12 AM

After flushing with grey water I am finding the pipes pretty clean. I don't think it will be a problem. Besides as Avanti mentioned, it is a remote situation and something not to agonize over. Booster, you did your mod because Roadtrek doesn't have its act fully together. Jim Hammill would not commit to the Zion system for the other Roadtreks. Could it be because they designed themselves in an impractical situation putting bathrooms on the passenger side?

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