Zion dual dump system - Page 4

booster · 03-11-2015, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markopolo

About the dual dump ................ I don't think anyone was thinking about dual dump systems when switching to macerator pump outs. The focus was on swapping out the gravity dump for a macerator.

Now we know macerator pumps and hoses can occasionally fail so dual dump setups are the way to go.

You are probably correct on the thoughts about the manufacturers thinking that going to the macerator was an event in itself, although it turned out to have unintended downsides in the real world.

Once they found out the problems, they then got too focused on providing an "emergency" dump capability (move hoses, remove pump, pull plug, etc) with the intent of immediate macerator repair, which missed the opportunity to provide the dual system with all its benefits.

avanti · 03-11-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markopolo

Add the third valve and it becomes a proper dual dump setup.

PLEASE!!! proper -> Certified.

gerrym51 · 03-11-2015, 05:20 PM

who would have that that 'dual dump'could be a marketing tool. amazing!

booster · 03-11-2015, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51

who would have that that 'dual dump'could be a marketing tool. amazing!

I think that part will be very interesting to watch. Roadtrek can't say it is a secret how it is done for this, as it is totally visible to all.

markopolo · 03-11-2015, 06:45 PM

The challenge for Roadtrek will be implementing this on all models. I think that will be easier if they just think "dual dump" instead of retrofit right from the start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by avanti

Quote:

Originally Posted by markopolo

Add the third valve and it becomes a proper dual dump setup.

PLEASE!!! proper -> Certified.

Good catch - there might be a dozen ways or more to accomplish an either / or dumping setup. You could have four valves or two valves and a portable macerator and use either the macerator or gravity to dump. Nothing improper about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51

who would have that that 'dual dump'could be a marketing tool. amazing!

Like inverters, solar, sliding screen doors etc. Buyers want as many features as they can get. A salesman could definitely promote the ability of being able to continue your trip, no on the road repairs needed if the macerator were to fail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

Quote:

Originally Posted by markopolo

About the dual dump ................ I don't think anyone was thinking about dual dump systems when switching to macerator pump outs. The focus was on swapping out the gravity dump for a macerator.

Now we know macerator pumps and hoses can occasionally fail so dual dump setups are the way to go.

You are probably correct on the thoughts about the manufacturers thinking that going to the macerator was an event in itself, although it turned out to have unintended downsides in the real world.

Once they found out the problems, they then got too focused on providing an "emergency" dump capability (move hoses, remove pump, pull plug, etc) with the intent of immediate macerator repair, which missed the opportunity to provide the dual system with all its benefits.

In hindsight it is kind of funny. That was my focus with the RT retrofit - make the pump easy to remove. Now that I'm looking at my current van with dual dump as the goal it really does look easy to do. I had previously given up on a switch to macerator only as I thought I'd have to make a custom mount for it etc.

gerrym51 · 03-11-2015, 08:51 PM

anybody have any idea how we are looking at the macerator/dump system. are those side panels on the promaster being flipped down. roadtrek sales people are basically useless when it comes to the zion and i would have to pester Jim Hammill directly again-prefer not to do it-

booster · 03-11-2015, 09:13 PM

Looking at the whole body pictures, it looks as if there is a provision for a second sliding door on the driver side, so it may be OK to cut there. It looks like the dump stuff would go right where the raised panel is right behind the driver door, it may even be a removable panel. I don't think they have a door on in the video.

I don't think the show Zion had any dump system in it, as they didn't show any openings in that area.

gerrym51 · 03-11-2015, 09:47 PM

now that i think about it-when i was in the zion i opened the access to the inverter/charger,the water heater,and the furnace. all were at floor level(the insides floor level)
the position of the water heater outside port leads me to believe you are correct.

markopolo · 03-12-2015, 01:02 AM

gerrym51 · 03-12-2015, 01:10 AM

Mark-now i really have no clue-lol

could the fresh water tank or the gray water tank be built into the floor?

booster · 03-12-2015, 01:45 AM

I think Marko has it called exactly correctly. The two body seams we can see are the two in front of the rear wheel, with the rear one at an angle. That also means that the entire assembly is below the rocker panel of the van, so it could be pretty low to the ground. That assembly is probably close to 7" high. You can also see the tanks are below the level of the rockers, so I went and looked at other pics, and from the driver side, it looks like they have a panel or something down the entire middle of the van, just inboard of the rocker panel and as far down as the tanks go, but no valves showing.

I am almost certain that the show Zion we saw didn't have valves and such hanging down like that.

gerrym51 · 03-12-2015, 01:50 AM

the show zion had that panel-since i don't know i;dont know. probably will be some kind of flip up hatches-when i get it i will tell you. it will be close like the side storage on a 190-so-so clearance
i looked at an agile-the side compartments are also poor clearance.

one thing about sportsmobile-no side compartment no low spots

booster · 03-12-2015, 02:03 AM

I just looked at Mojoman's pics and it appears that the area where the valves are on the Zion is outside of the front half of the leaf spring, so kind of narrow and not good for anything else. Hard to tell if it hangs lower than the spring hanger, though. The clearance reduction isn't as bad as it could be, as the valves are fairly close to the rear tire. If they were in the center of the wheelbase, it would be worse.

gerrym51 · 03-12-2015, 02:13 AM

I will measure when i get than pass it on

I looked at mojomans pictures-roadtrek must have moved exhaust pipe

based on mojomans mojovan there is actually more clearance than i thought

the onan is slightly over 12 inches high. anything matching that should have ok clearance

markopolo · 03-12-2015, 03:00 AM

Waste outlet has to go somewhere. Near a wheel gives better clearance as Booster pointed out.

The images I posted from the video really lack depth. The rocker panel actually curves under a bit. I see the panel under the van on one of the early van photos. Maybe that will be on production units. The rear-most section could slide forward to give access to the valves & stuff or flip up like Gerry guessed.

It's fun to guess at this stuff but I think all the photos are pre-production units. We just have to be patient to see the final product photos.

(Edited: - water heater comment moved to general topic so as to not get mixed up in this topic about the dual dump system)

booster · 03-12-2015, 04:10 PM

Patience?

Oh, but is so much more fun to guess and speculate!

Are we there yet???? Are we there yet????

Dodge lists the road clearance as about 7" on and unloaded van, and looking at pics that is probably at the engine area or the rear axle. The rockers are significantly higher than that, but will go down with all the added weight. As Marco says, it has to go somewhere, and somewhere has to be under the floor.

Looking at Mojoman's generator pics, it looks like the generator is up tight on the floor panel, and the rockers are a little below the floor support rails, so there probably is 3-4" of difference there. He said he has 10.5" clearance at the generator, which makes sense.

Looking at Marco's pic of the panel, which does look to be spliced at the area we are looking at, it looks like the panel bottom is near the center of rear wheel off the ground, and that is about 15". Even if the valves hang down another 3", I think you will still be considerably above the 7" of the low point spec, but it will be fun to see how it actually shakes out with a fully loaded van. You can see in the pic how low the axle is compared to the panel.

The angle of the pic of the system on the hoist must make it look a lot closer to the ground than it really is.

gerrym51 · 03-12-2015, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

Patience?

Oh, but is so much more fun to guess and speculate!

Are we there yet???? Are we there yet????

Dodge lists the road clearance as about 7" on and unloaded van, and looking at pics that is probably at the engine area or the rear axle. The rockers are significantly higher than that, but will go down with all the added weight. As Marco says, it has to go somewhere, and somewhere has to be under the floor.

Looking at Mojoman's generator pics, it looks like the generator is up tight on the floor panel, and the rockers are a little below the floor support rails, so there probably is 3-4" of difference there. He said he has 10.5" clearance at the generator, which makes sense.

Looking at Marco's pic of the panel, which does look to be spliced at the area we are looking at, it looks like the panel bottom is near the center of rear wheel off the ground, and that is about 15". Even if the valves hang down another 3", I think you will still be considerably above the 7" of the low point spec, but it will be fun to see how it actually shakes out with a fully loaded van. You can see in the pic how low the axle is compared to the panel.

The angle of the pic of the system on the hoist must make it look a lot closer to the ground than it really is.

Booster-just imagine how i feel-i bought one and still don't know all of it.

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