Would you do it AGAIN..?

[Doneworking]

I truly think if you are not "handy" and enjoy (ENJOY!) working on and figuring out mechanical or electrical problems, you probably should think twice about owning any RV, particularly a motorhome. I had a good friend that didn't know the difference between a wrench and a screwdriver and his rv service bills were constant. He finally sold his rig.

We have a bullet proof Chevy chassis under our Roadtrek 210 Popular. When it needs work (seldom, except for service like oil changes) I have a competent AAA rated family owned garage four miles away I have used for thirty years that do an excellent job at reasonable prices.

I do all the other stuff myself and I have never had a problem with those much discussed macerator pumps which we have now enjoyed for 12 years. I have replaced hoses, loose sewer pipes, worked on the refrig, replaced hinges and a dozen other thinks over the years but I do it all myself. I started participating in a B forum in 2002 and back then there were fewer owners but the forum had some very fine engineers and mechanics and votec school mechanic instructors on it. That has only expanded over the years and with youtubes on everything, you can do most things yourself if you have the time. That, my friends, is the joy of retirement!

Commenting on the posts about the economic analysis of rv ownership, let me assure you: there ain't no sich thang! You don't buy an rv to save money. You buy one to have fun, enjoy the journey as much as the destination and have a hobby. The only possible way to come out on top economically is to buy a good used rig, maintain it yourself and drive the wheels off of that puppy. It isn't about depreciation, finance, cash, anything: just about fun and making memories.

[MsNomer]

To answer the original question--emphatically YES. I'm living in a dream world and don't ever want to wake up. I'm a child again in my playhouse. It seems like somehow I'm cheating when I crawl into my comfortable bed with a 360° view of paradise.

Unlike most of you, I started with a bare metal box and built my own. From what I've read here, my couple thousand hours doesn't seem any worse than the time some of you spend on repairs, particularly when a lot of my time was spent dreaming and planning and figuring--all of which was quite enjoyable.

If, God forbid, something we're to happen to this one, the next one would be a lot faster, but not much would change.

[Joe]

Yes I would do it again. We live in Maryland and frequently drive to Florida. People ask us how long to drive there. Tell them 4,5 or 6 days. They ask how come so long. We stop when, where and often. Not about the destination its about the journey. Never buy an RV to save money. It a house and truck together. Something is always going to break or need replacement.

[ChristyCappello]

Have you looked into a pop up for motorcycles? I saw one at a campground a few yes ago.

[ChristyCappello]

Back in 2000 I took a traveling job. I lived in a motel 4 days a week & was home on weekends or worked 8 days straight & had 6 days off. Living in a motel has advantages & disadvantages. Plus side you earn points that you can use for free hotel stays, airfare, or merchandise. Minus, after awhile you miss a nice home cooked meal, & being with family & friends.
I still would rather stay in my camper then stay at a motel.

[ChristyCappello]

[QUOTE=ChristyCappello;80454]Back in 2000 I took a traveling job. I lived in a motel 4 days a week & was home on weekends or worked 8 days straight & had 6 days off. Living in a motel has advantages & disadvantages. Plus side you earn points that you can use for free hotel stays, airfare, or merchandise. Minus, after awhile you miss a nice home cooked meal, & being with family & friends.
I still would rather stay in my camper then stay at a motel.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

I truly think if you are not "handy" and enjoy (ENJOY!) working on and figuring out mechanical or electrical problems, you probably should think twice about owning any RV, particularly a motorhome. I had a good friend that didn't know the difference between a wrench and a screwdriver and his rv service bills were constant. He finally sold his rig.

We have a bullet proof Chevy chassis under our Roadtrek 210 Popular. When it needs work (seldom, except for service like oil changes) I have a competent AAA rated family owned garage four miles away I have used for thirty years that do an excellent job at reasonable prices.

I do all the other stuff myself and I have never had a problem with those much discussed macerator pumps which we have now enjoyed for 12 years. I have replaced hoses, loose sewer pipes, worked on the refrig, replaced hinges and a dozen other thinks over the years but I do it all myself. I started participating in a B forum in 2002 and back then there were fewer owners but the forum had some very fine engineers and mechanics and votec school mechanic instructors on it. That has only expanded over the years and with youtubes on everything, you can do most things yourself if you have the time. That, my friends, is the joy of retirement!

Commenting on the posts about the economic analysis of rv ownership, let me assure you: there ain't no sich thang! You don't buy an rv to save money. You buy one to have fun, enjoy the journey as much as the destination and have a hobby. The only possible way to come out on top economically is to buy a good used rig, maintain it yourself and drive the wheels off of that puppy. It isn't about depreciation, finance, cash, anything: just about fun and making memories.

Someone shared with with me that RV means "RUINED VACATION"...kinda funny, but, TRUE....

You really think that your Chevy or Dodge is "bullet proof".... and you can fix it yourself?? If you can... good luck.

I'm NOT saying that the Mercedes Benz Sprinter with their diesel engine is any better... but, Mercedes Benz has been building diesel engines continuously since 1936.... I think they might know what they're doing?? Emissions system.. maybe a different story.. but, the base engine is solid.

The performance and fuel efficiency on the diesel is pretty good and quiet... not screaming engine RPMs in mountains.

[Doneworking]

"You really think that your Chevy or Dodge is "bullet proof".... and you can fix it yourself?? If you can... good luck."

"Mercedes Benz has been building diesel engines continuously since 1936.... I think they might know what they're doing??"

Of course they do!!


Yep. I think a lot of us on this forum can generally fix those models and I think we can run down to the nearest auto parts store and get most anything we need to fix them 24 hours a day.

Take a look at the Roadtrek website and you will be instructed that a Roadtrek 190 (for example) can carry 2000 pounds of stuff (including passengers), tow 8200 pounds and support a tongue weight of 1000 pounds. Pretty stout chassis in my engineering mind.

It is wonderful that you love your Sprinter and are a big believer in MB diesels. Some of us just prefer gassers and we love our rigs too. That is what is called a market: different products for different people.

Like you state, MB has been building diesels since 1936. Well, Louis Chevrolet started building gassers in 1911 and Henry Ford started building his in 1899. The Dodge Brothers kicked theirs off in 1914.

So what? Does that really mean anything?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

"You really think that your Chevy or Dodge is "bullet proof".... and you can fix it yourself?? If you can... good luck."

"Mercedes Benz has been building diesel engines continuously since 1936.... I think they might know what they're doing??"

Of course they do!!


Yep. I think a lot of us on this forum can generally fix those models and I think we can run down to the nearest auto parts store and get most anything we need to fix them 24 hours a day.

Take a look at the Roadtrek website and you will be instructed that a Roadtrek 190 (for example) can carry 2000 pounds of stuff (including passengers), tow 8200 pounds and support a tongue weight of 1000 pounds. Pretty stout chassis in my engineering mind.

It is wonderful that you love your Sprinter and are a big believer in MB diesels. Some of us just prefer gassers and we love our rigs too. That is what is called a market: different products for different people.

Like you state, MB has been building diesels since 1936. Well, Louis Chevrolet started building gassers in 1911 and Henry Ford started building his in 1899. The Dodge Brothers kicked theirs off in 1914.

So what? Does that really mean anything?

I think you need to take a more realistic look at the load capacities, towing, and tongue weight and how they are calculated in relation to Roadtreks.


Roadtreks current method of load capacity calculation severely underestimates how much you can actually carry, as it includes lots of things you wouldn't think of, like all the options. Realistically, with options, a couple of people, water and fuel, most 210s are in the 500# range of capacity for your stuff, and most 190s are in the range of 900#.


The hitch can support 1000#, but that weight counts towards your gross weight of the van, so you can't use it unless you leave everything else at home, and in a 210 more than everything. Tongue weight would usually limit most Chevies to about 3500# of towing in the real world, although some have gone higher to about 5000#. You would limit on combined weight at about 6400# max. We have seen reports of a 210 coming off the lot new, with 2 people and a large dog, full water propane and fuel, but no gear being at max weight when weighed on the way home. You literally would not be able to add any gear, or two anything if you had that situation.



Roadtrek has pulled a lot of spec manipulation in the last few years of this type. They also did it with the fresh water capacity by adding the hot water heater volume to the amount. Of course you have to fill it, but you can't use it unless you replace at the same time, so it is not fresh water capacity. You can only use what is in your tanks.



I am not bashing Chevies, as we have a 2007 190P, and haven't seen anything we like better, but you need to be realistic about the capabilities.

[Darrin]

Well said.

[Trash-to-Treasure]

I have a 1997 Coach House 20'. Been living in it now 6 months. I've repaired or replaced just about every major system except the drivetrain, which I expect to have to replace in the next year or two. But it's just like owning a house. And I've found with vehicles the less you use them the more repairs you have.

It's a lifestyle. And I agree with the comment that it gives you freedom that you don't have with other methods of travel. How else could you be on vacation and decide to pull up stakes and move 500 miles in one day without worrying about where to stay (Walmart) ? And once you get the systems worked up to where they're reliable your repair cost just like a house goes down.

That said, the cost of newer Class B's are unreasonably high. I would probably be singing a different tune if had
$30-$50k tied up in my rig.

[Leland]

At least an rv is less of a money pit than a boat.

[Doneworking]

I guess I am just the luckiest guy on this forum.

I have owned two Roadtreks and bought them brand spanking new. I have never had any of the problems so often discussed on these forums. I take care of them, maintain them myself and drive them, camp in them, enjoy the heck out of them.

Twenty years of owning a Dodge 190 and a Chevy 210. I don't obsess over specs or specifics. I bought them to enjoy the journey and the destination. I pay attention to details, but I don't focus on "what if" and I just enjoy.

Like I said, I assume I have been the luckiest guy on these forums, apparently, and for that I am thankful.

[Ladyflier]

Well, if you don't want to own, you can do the same style camping/motorhoming with RV Share. No, I'm not a representative for them, but I do visit their website just in case I fly somewhere and I don't want to stay in hotels.

2018 Winnebago/Travato

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

I guess I am just the luckiest guy on this forum.

I have owned two Roadtreks and bought them brand spanking new. I have never had any of the problems so often discussed on these forums. I take care of them, maintain them myself and drive them, camp in them, enjoy the heck out of them.

Twenty years of owning a Dodge 190 and a Chevy 210. I don't obsess over specs or specifics. I bought them to enjoy the journey and the destination. I pay attention to details, but I don't focus on "what if" and I just enjoy.

Like I said, I assume I have been the luckiest guy on these forums, apparently, and for that I am thankful.

Roadtrek was a good brand. .. well thought out designs. Built by experienced craftsmen using quality materials.

Unfortunately, things have changed since the 2008 market crash. RT was bought out and the company has never been the same since.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Roadtrek was a good brand. .. well thought out designs. Built by experienced craftsmen using quality materials.

Unfortunately, things have changed since the 2008 market crash. RT was bought out and the company has never been the same since.

Is this true ? Or are you saying 2008 and before???

Erwin Hymer purchased Roadtrek in 2016.....

[Doneworking]

BBQ, I agree with you about the quality of RTs prior to the financial debacle of 2008. I think the real sweet spot for Roadtreks was early 2000s. The company was owned by the second generation of the family, was making a limited number of models and just refining those models from year to year. If you look, for example, at a late 90s RT 190 and then look at a 2006 or 2007 model what you will see are basically subtle changes. A tweak here and there and occasionally something new.

When the family sold the company, it was as I recall to a Chicago private equity group. They flipped it to a NY private equity group a couple of years later and they flipped it to Hymer.

As Elvis sang, whole lot of shakin' going on. Now, that is not to say that there are not some great Roadtrek units since 2008 but a lot of us (myself included) see no reason to depart with our pre 2008 Roadtreks.

I know every inch of my 2007 210P, have made improvements and a few mods over the years, keep it stored inside an HVAC garage attached to my house. I doubt if at my age I ever buy another B. This one, hopefully, will be providing us lots of fun for years to come.

Think about the guys that own and fly small planes. A thirty year old Cessna 172 is not considered worn out. It is maintained (by law and regulations) and if the avionics are kept updated it is totally serviceable. That is the way I look at older Class B motorhomes.

New folks coming into this hobby may very well want to buy later models as they experience and develop a taste for this hobby....and that is what it is, a hobby. Also, newer buyers like all the latest gadgets, electronics and systems. Those of us that have been doing this for a long time are often satisfied with the older systems like gas refrigerators, tank water heaters, a couple of coach batteries that are filled with lead not lithium and so on. Simpler systems relatively easy to fix and service.

I think the reason older Bs seem to sell for so much is that there were fewer produced per year back then so supply is limited, the cost compared to new is a fraction and a lot of us enjoy tinkering with our rigs without the expectation of everything working perfectly every time we use it. As long as it is serviceable, that's great. We enjoy the journey as well as the destination.

[booster]

While Roadtrek took a big hit during the recession, and because family owned had limited backup assets, they brought a lot of the issues on themselves, I think in the mid 2000s.


The appear to have heavily overproduced in the 2007-2008 era, which left a lot vans on the lots for a long time and made for some big rebates on new units that were up to two years old. Our 07 bought in Oct of 2008 was on the lot for 15 months.


When we went on a tour in 2009 at Roadtrek, they were in the process of contracting their size and capacity. They had opened a paint facility several years before that was not onsight and required every van to be driven over and back, so the needed a couple of people and vehicles and the time to do it there and back. The vans also had to be road legal, which meant they couldn't be painted at the optimum time in many cases. The logic of moving the painting off site was to free up space for more production capacity at the main plant.



They were also getting rid of their assembly line build process and going to what they called work cells, but really were more like the inline work stations that the vans were driven to, not in line. They manually moved the vans in and out of the work stations by driving them, so they had to be driveable there also. When they said they had switched to work cells, I had thought we would see work cells where the van stayed in place and the parts and/or techs were moved them, when really all they did was break up the assembly line by leaving the aisle open. The whole reason for the change was stated to be because if a van had an issue on the assembly line, it stopped the whole line. While this is certainly an issue, I don't think the fix was really much improvement.


My guess would be that by the time they took the hit for all the overproduction, contracting back in size, changing how they build things, and then the recession, they would likely have been in very tough financial times.


When they got acquired each time we had high hopes for improvement, but the only real change was the pushing out of the last family member ahead of his contract time. IMO, not stepping back and taking care of the culture and existing management issues first thing was a mistake by the new owners. Of course their only real goal was to improve the bottom line enough to make a profit flipping the company.

[GeorgeRa]

I had experience with Canadian Bigfoot which bellied up in 2008. Overproduction, large range of products from large C, sliding campers to trailers, questionable quality caused their demise. My 1997 slide in trailer was done well, my 2007 trailer was loaded with problems.

Unfortunately, since the company plane crash in 1998, when most of the original owners, died the company was never the same. It happens often - when original founders go away companies struggle.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

BBQ, I agree with you about the quality of RTs prior to the financial debacle of 2008. I think the real sweet spot for Roadtreks was early 2000s. The company was owned by the second generation of the family, was making a limited number of models and just refining those models from year to year. If you look, for example, at a late 90s RT 190 and then look at a 2006 or 2007 model what you will see are basically subtle changes. A tweak here and there and occasionally something new.

When the family sold the company, it was as I recall to a Chicago private equity group. They flipped it to a NY private equity group a couple of years later and they flipped it to Hymer.

As Elvis sang, whole lot of shakin' going on. Now, that is not to say that there are not some great Roadtrek units since 2008 but a lot of us (myself included) see no reason to depart with our pre 2008 Roadtreks.

I know every inch of my 2007 210P, have made improvements and a few mods over the years, keep it stored inside an HVAC garage attached to my house. I doubt if at my age I ever buy another B. This one, hopefully, will be providing us lots of fun for years to come.

Think about the guys that own and fly small planes. A thirty year old Cessna 172 is not considered worn out. It is maintained (by law and regulations) and if the avionics are kept updated it is totally serviceable. That is the way I look at older Class B motorhomes.

New folks coming into this hobby may very well want to buy later models as they experience and develop a taste for this hobby....and that is what it is, a hobby. Also, newer buyers like all the latest gadgets, electronics and systems. Those of us that have been doing this for a long time are often satisfied with the older systems like gas refrigerators, tank water heaters, a couple of coach batteries that are filled with lead not lithium and so on. Simpler systems relatively easy to fix and service.

I think the reason older Bs seem to sell for so much is that there were fewer produced per year back then so supply is limited, the cost compared to new is a fraction and a lot of us enjoy tinkering with our rigs without the expectation of everything working perfectly every time we use it. As long as it is serviceable, that's great. We enjoy the journey as well as the destination.

Well, well, well....if you had just picked up your telephone and inquired directly with Roadtrek then you would have found out that the higher end models like the RS, CS and E-TREK...are still built only when a customer actually orders one......I know because while I was on the phone with a representative from Roadtrek he told me this.... I was curious ......

YES...he told me in the last few years since Hymer purchased the company... they have been certainly ramping up production of the Carrado, Sunlight and other low priced entry level Class B's....it only takes less than one day to convert the low priced model...while it takes two to three weeks or more on the expensive models...they don't build more than a few hundred or less of the high end models each year.......

As per the BS that the quality especially for the $150,000 models... let me tell you... that no company in their right mind would ever offer a SIX YEAR warranty on something unless they were certain that it would last...it's illogical....

Yeah....go ahead and tell yourself that your 2000...is some kind of "unicorn" and because it's an early model it's worth some premium..... That's a load of crap.

Now...if you've been lucky with the service on your unit... CONGRATULATIONS... that's wonderful..... it's better to be lucky than good....

But,, if you think you can sell an almost 20 years old 2000 for more than a comparable later model because yours is older is the craziest thing I've ever heard...

As far as safety is concerned...I'd rather have a later model with electronic stability control, newer technology etc..........a 2000 vintage vehicle is ancient in 2018....

Yeah, drive it until it is no longer serviceable......I kept my vehicles a long time as well.... but, I've found that after 20 years...it's a lot harder.... I know..I had a car over 25 years old and it was a little more challenging....not impossible..but, it had to go for safety reasons....

I wouldn't compare a 30 year old car or truck to an airplane....who does that??

By the way... enjoy your Chevy... the representative at Roadtrek told me that they are the least selling models in the company line.....and the bolt on frame construction is very old school..... Apparently people either purchase the RAM Promaster or the Sprinter....more often than they do the Chevy...

The newer models on the Ram Promaster chassis are outselling the Chevy Express models at a rapid pace... people looking for a bargain are purchasing those models... If that trend continues...I could see Roadtrek discontinuing the Chevy models..?? Just me.....