Winterizing, what should I do?

[sc68z28]

How cold does it need to be and for how long?

We live in the high desert of SoCal. During winter we will occasionally see the low temp around 25° to low 30°'s F. Just for a few hours in the early morning.

At those temps do I need to do anything. If so, what do you guys recommend?

Our Sprinter, is a 2018 RoadTrek, CS Adventurous. It has the Aldi heater and the EcoTrek 800ah. It sits in the driveway at home because we use it as a daily driver. If any of that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance, Bill.

[GallenH]

can't say for sure but we sit in Phoenix where the lows are similar. I've never winterized. When we went to Utah in the spring night temps were in the low 20s and we had no issues. Of course in those situations we were in the RV and the furnace was heating the cabin at night. But we frequently are just storing in Phoenix.

[hbn7hj]

That is easy. Should you have an overnight freeze forecast turn the furnace on and set it to 55F. That would work even for a “Texas freeze” forecast of 1F. Short term cold with daytime temps above freezing won’t bother the tanks or water heater.

Without heat the things you have to worry about are the toilet valve, water pump, and P-traps.

[Bud]

Wind can make a Big difference.

[sc68z28]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

That is easy. Should you have an overnight freeze forecast turn the furnace on and set it to 55F. That would work even for a “Texas freeze” forecast of 1F. Short term cold with daytime temps above freezing won’t bother the tanks or water heater.

Thanks, ^ This looks to be a good plan. I can use shore power and run the Aldi on electric when temp forecasts are under 32°f .

---Bill.

[sc68z28]

Follow up report and observations.
Last night/this morning our forecast from local news was a “Hard Freeze” for the High Desert of SoCal.
I used Weather Underground to monitor the air temp in my immediate area. There was 3 weather stations reporting online all with-in a half mile of my home. Our home is at the shore line of a 200+ acre lake. Two of the weather stations were also at homes on the water here at Spring Valley Lake Ca. Water temp in the lake is around 45°F , I wasn't sure how that area of water would effect the air temp. By 10: pm the air temp was being reported at/or below 32°, and at 7:am it was 21°F.
I know you guys up north are laughing at me right now, but I am new to all this. Including any weather below 40°

I have not Winterized the Roadtrek or my boat. The boat has a thermostatically controlled cabin heater in the engine bay, for the R/T, I plugged into shore power and set the Alde heater at 55°F to run on electricity. To monitor, I hung a remote, wireless, temp sensor to an exposed water line under the back. Figured I could monitor how much radiant heat was coming thru from the Alde floor heater. The temp under the Sprinter was 47° at 11: pm then slowly came down to 37°F by 7:am. So that worked well! 15°+ above the ambient air temp.

One more thing I was curious about. How cold and for how long does it take to freeze water. I put ½ inch of water in a cup and set it out overnight. Surprised me, NOT frozen, after 9 hours of sub 32° and as low as 21°. Using my I/R temp gun I check several things for temp at 7:am. The table that the water cup was sitting on was 9°F, the concrete ground was 25° to 28°. Boat cover frosted over was 11°.

Bottom line for me, I will not be winterizing and no need for heaters unless forecast is below freezing for more than 8 hours.

[jrobe]

Your plan is probably fine but I wouldn't push my luck too far. It wouldn't take much water at all, for example, in a small chamber in the water pump to freeze and cause a crack or malfunction. The same thing could happen with a very small amount of water in the faucet valves, water heater, etc.. One small pipe connection leak could eventually cause quite a bit of damage.

For me, I would have a little heat in the van with the cabinet doors open for anything below freezing. I definitely would do it at 9 or 11 degrees. Even more so if I was already plugged into shore power which would make it easy and cheap to avoid any problems or worry.

[sc68z28]

More follow up...

Small caveat to my plan.
Temps last night got down to 30°F for a few hours.
I did not run the heater.
Nothing froze, BUT the Alde water heater has a “Frost Protection Valve” and it releases the water automatically at about 35°.
This valve must be reset manually.

Bill.

[rogerstg]

Originally Posted by sc68z28

To monitor, I hung a remote, wireless, temp sensor to an exposed water line under the back. Figured I could monitor how much radiant heat was coming thru from the Alde floor heater. The temp under the Sprinter was 47° at 11: pm then slowly came down to 37°F by 7:am. So that worked well! 15°+ above the ambient air temp.

FWIW, a bit of wind could significantly change all that.

[sc68z28]

Originally Posted by rogerstg

FWIW, a bit of wind could significantly change all that.

Thanks, I understand that.

[Davydd]

30 degrees is 30 degrees and a little wind won’t change that fact.

[RossWilliams]

That the table was 9 degrees and the water was still >=32 tells you something about how much heat needs to be lost for water to freeze. Its actually 80 calories per gram which is 80 times what it takes to lower the temperature by 1 degree. The state change requires a lot of energy. But most of the expansion happens with the state change as well.

That means once the water gets cold it can freeze very fast and the damage is done. As long as you have warm days it is unlikely the water will get that cold. But if it doesn't warm up during the day, you could have a problem the next night even with milder ambient low temperatures. Running your faucets would clear out the cold water from narrow pipes that are exposed one night and make it less likely they would freeze the next night. People in Minnesota who have problems with frozen pipes in extreme weather sometime let a faucet drip to prevent standing water from freezing.

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Running your faucets would clear out the cold water from narrow pipes that are exposed one night and make it less likely they would freeze the next night. People in Minnesota who have problems with frozen pipes in extreme weather sometime let a faucet drip to prevent standing water from freezing.

I forgot about that. When we were in Utah, we did run faucets briefly at night when we used the bathroom. At our age that occurred frequently! We didn't have the water heater on at night. That might help. Working under the van and inside on water issues I have noticed that hot and cold water are frequently run in a bundle.

[BillsPaseo]

Originally Posted by Davydd

30 degrees is 30 degrees and a little wind won’t change that fact.

30 degrees is 30 degrees, and 30 degrees is below freezing. What the wind will do is remove the residual heat faster from an object that is above ambient temperature.

This is how radiators and cooling fins work...

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by BillsPaseo

30 degrees is 30 degrees, and 30 degrees is below freezing. What the wind will do is remove the residual heat faster from an object that is above ambient temperature.

This is how radiators and cooling fins work...

Its also the reason we have something called "wind chill warnings" in northern climates. Your skin will freeze and you will get frost bite a lot quicker with a 50 mph wind than you will when it is calm with the same temperature.

Your pipes will freeze quicker in those conditions too. So you might want to check the predicted wind chill, if its available, as well as the temperature.

[KanzKran]

Originally Posted by sc68z28

How cold does it need to be and for how long?

We live in the high desert of SoCal. During winter we will occasionally see the low temp around 25° to low 30°'s F. Just for a few hours in the early morning.

At those temps do I need to do anything. If so, what do you guys recommend?

Our Sprinter, is a 2018 RoadTrek, CS Adventurous. It has the Aldi heater and the EcoTrek 800ah. It sits in the driveway at home because we use it as a daily driver. If any of that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance, Bill.

Given those conditions, and its use as a daily driver rather than daily camper, at most I would open the low-point drains when cold is expected, if any pipes are exposed on the underside. But a few hours in the 20’s isn’t going to freeze water even in exposed lines unless it’s also very windy or you’re going to drive it under those conditions, which is why I would probably do nothing. If it’s forecast to drop below freezing and stay there, then I’d drain the lines since it’s easy to do with almost no effort, but that doesn’t sound like a likely scenario.

Mine is set up so I can winterize it with propylene glycol RV antifreeze in less than 30 minutes, with the pump sucking antifreeze from the jug using the outside water connection, but winters are cold here so I need to be able to do that on the road when returning home from warmer climes.

[rogerstg]

Originally Posted by Davydd

30 degrees is 30 degrees and a little wind won’t change that fact.

That wasn't the point.

The point is the recorded and expected radiant heat of a camper when the ambient temperature is well below freezing. Air movement has a significant impact on that.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by rogerstg

That wasn't the point.

The point is the recorded and expected radiant heat of a camper when the ambient temperature is well below freezing. Air movement has a significant impact on that.

30 degrees F is not well below 0 as the author mentioned and that little bit of wind is not going to change that fact. Water tanks are generally tucked under the Van where wind will affect them less. If the ambient temperature is 30 F warmer water will only reach 30 F and I seriously doubt a morning low of 30 F will be significant when a van cabin temperature is radiating down on the tank and the ambient temperature is rising above freezing.

Windchill numbers are an artificial construct on how it feels relatively on human beings not water.
.

[rogerstg]

Originally Posted by Davydd

30 degrees F is not well below 0 as the author mentioned

The issue of wind is contextually linked to post 6. Context matters, and nobody wrote that 30F is well below 0.

[KyCharlie]

Complete beginner here with brand new Coachmen Galleria. We live in KY which can have some cold weather, so I had our coach winterized by a local dealer. We keep it parked outside.
Should we do some winter camping and return with the chance of more cold weather, I know we’ll have to re-winterize.
However, if I can find indoor parking with a 30 amp hookup, could I keep the furnace at 50, turn on the tank heaters and not have it winterized?