Winterized Class B?

[Vee and Zeekie]

I live in Lake Tahoe, California where, in winter, it gets below freezing at night. But Lake Tahoe is close to many parts of California and Nevada and Oregon where I would like to go for short trips in winter, for example to the coast or to the desert or to the foothills. I don't think I absolutely need 4WD because it adds cost and reduces gas mileage. And since I am retired, I don't HAVE to travel in an active snow storm. I can wait till the roads are dry and clear. I don't really plan to spend time in snowy or frozen destinations but my rig will be parked at my home in Tahoe between trips and I don't want to have to drain all the tanks, etc..., each trip. How does one deal with this issue? Thank you for any tips!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Vee and Zeekie

I live in Lake Tahoe, California where, in winter, it gets below freezing at night. But Lake Tahoe is close to many parts of California and Nevada and Oregon where I would like to go for short trips in winter, for example to the coast or to the desert or to the foothills. I don't think I absolutely need 4WD because it adds cost and reduces gas mileage. And since I am retired, I don't HAVE to travel in an active snow storm. I can wait till the roads are dry and clear. I don't really plan to spend time in snowy or frozen destinations but my rig will be parked at my home in Tahoe between trips and I don't want to have to drain all the tanks, etc..., each trip. How does one deal with this issue? Thank you for any tips!

Unless you can park indoors, or have full-time access to shore power and the rig is true 4-season, there is really no way to avoid winterizing.

However:
(a) if you learn to use compressed air to blow out your pipes rather than the "pink stuff" approach, the job is very quick and easy. After the first couple of times, you won't even think about it.
(b) Tank freezing is much less of a risk than pipe freezing, since even if it does freeze, there is typically lots of room for expansion in a tank. Also, you can add antifreeze to the black and gray tanks easily enough. That said, draining the tanks takes no time at all.

Note also that Lithium batteries have cold-weather issues that you need to consider. There are several threads on that topic, which you should read if you are considering Li.

[hbn7hj]

As a solo woman who probably does not have a mechanical background there are things you need to consider.

You will have immediate plumbing and electrical issues right after purchase even if the unit is new, maybe especially if it is new. A couple of years from now you will be able to deal with these issues yourself. Until then may I suggest you have an agreement with an RV savvy person that you can consult with anytime, day or night. Preferably a family member or local friend.

This forum will help but we can be slow and we all solve things differently. You most likely will immediately have electrical capacity issues if you don’t have shore power. Some of us would suggest you replace your whole system or add solar. Others will tell you to replace incandescent and florescent lights with LED. Maybe add a battery. You have to decide which is best for you.

All of us would suggest adding a shunt type battery monitor.

The winter thing is a good example. The best solution is heated storage but very few have that. Outside storage would demand that you empty all water tanks that can’t be heated. For me keeping the inside at 55F will take care of everything else down to -10F or so. The compressed air solution is good but has it’s risks.

For storage where night temps didn’t get below 20F or so (summer mountains) with no shore power I left the tanks with water but put valves in where I could close off the water tank outlet and open up the pump to air. I would run the pump with open faucets till the pump was clear of water. Clear the toilet of water, too. Worked fine. Never cracked a water pump or toilet

Again, everyone of us will have a different solution as will you.

A salesman was standing at the lot exit as a new owner was exiting. “Are you a mechanic? You will be.” As will you and the learning curve will be painful. You will need to acquire some tools and replacement parts. First would be a water pump, a multi-meter, wrenches and sockets. A knowledgable consultant would be valuable.

[Vee and Zeekie]

Originally Posted by avanti

However:
(a) if you learn to use compressed air to blow out your pipes rather than the "pink stuff" approach, the job is very quick and easy. After the first couple of times, you won't even think about it.

Just wondering what "pink stuff" is? Thanks.

[Vee and Zeekie]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

As a solo woman who probably does not have a mechanical background there are things you need to consider.

You will have immediate plumbing and electrical issues right after purchase even if the unit is new, maybe especially if it is new. A couple of years from now you will be able to deal with these issues yourself. Until then may I suggest you have an agreement with an RV savvy person that you can consult with anytime, day or night. Preferably a family member or local friend.

This forum will help but we can be slow and we all solve things differently. You most likely will immediately have electrical capacity issues if you don’t have shore power. Some of us would suggest you replace your whole system or add solar. Others will tell you to replace incandescent and florescent lights with LED. Maybe add a battery. You have to decide which is best for you.

All of us would suggest adding a shunt type battery monitor.

The winter thing is a good example. The best solution is heated storage but very few have that. Outside storage would demand that you empty all water tanks that can’t be heated. For me keeping the inside at 55F will take care of everything else down to -10F or so. The compressed air solution is good but has it’s risks.

For storage where night temps didn’t get below 20F or so (summer mountains) with no shore power I left the tanks with water but put valves in where I could close off the water tank outlet and open up the pump to air. I would run the pump with open faucets till the pump was clear of water. Clear the toilet of water, too. Worked fine. Never cracked a water pump or toilet

Again, everyone of us will have a different solution as will you.

A salesman was standing at the lot exit as a new owner was exiting. “Are you a mechanic? You will be.” As will you and the learning curve will be painful. You will need to acquire some tools and replacement parts. First would be a water pump, a multi-meter, wrenches and sockets. A knowledgable consultant would be valuable.

Yes, I am aware I would have A LOT to learn! I have learned a lot already, just from my online research and reading in this forum. I am a tad more mechanical than I might sound. I have done simple repairs on my RAV4. I have done some plumbing and even a bit of electrical in my home. What I would really like is to take an RV maintenance and repair class of some kind. (Ideally, it would be one tailored to the vehicle I end up buying). There is nothing like that where I live --or maybe anywhere right now due to COVID. I googled it and there are some online classes. That might be better than nothing. If you know of a good class, I would welcome suggestions!

[mkguitar]

What about parking in Reno?
I know many people commute down

Find a parking place near the airport and take the shuttle to collect the van.
Yes it will get into the 20's in the early mornings dec/jan/feb, but only below freezing for a few hours most days- not a "hard freeze"
water left in your blck/grey tanks would hold heat and if some salt were added to the water that would lower the freezing temperature below 32º



Mike

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Vee and Zeekie

Just wondering what "pink stuff" is? Thanks.

Sorry..
It is a mildly disparaging term for the special, non-toxic antifreeze compound that is used to winterize RV plumbing systems. You can get it at WalMart. It must be poured into drain traps to keep them from freezing. Having some in the black and grey tanks is good, too. If you have a macerator, it is important to fill it as well.

Many people also fill their freshwater system with it and pump it throughout the system to displace any residual water that might freeze and damage the plumbing. This procedure is often recommended by RV manufacturers as a "fool proof" method of winterization.

The disadvantage of this approach are (1) it is a bit involved (although not really a big deal); (2) the need to use several gallons of antifreeze for every winterization (which could be several times a year); (3) the need to flush it all out and rinse while dewinterization; and (4) it leaves a temporary aftertaste in the system that many find unpleasant.

The alternative is to blow the system out with an automotive air compressor. There is a special little plastic adaptor for this that lets you connect your compressor to your city-water inlet. This is quick and easy, but you have to follow a specific procedure to do it safely. Some folks believe that it is inherently less safe than antifreeze; others (including myself) believe that it works just fine if you do it right.

Debating this topic is an endless source of entertainment around here.

[Rockwood27]

One thing that you should consider if you will be boondocking (no hookups) in cool/cold weather is the furnace is an electrical power hog during operation. Your battery bank needs to be of a sufficient size to make it through the night. During the day solar, generator or engine alternator can recharge them.

[BrianCO]

Just adding another voice in support of blowing out your water lines with compressed air versus running anti-freeze through them. It really is a simple operation. Just be sure that you have a good understanding of what is needed and the process, and don't go overboard with the psi. I think it takes me about 6 minutes in total, including setting up and putting away the compressor.

This helps too: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

We drive our Passage in freezing temps frequently, just don't put water in the tanks so using it more as a travel van than RV.

[Vee and Zeekie]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

What about parking in Reno?
I know many people commute down

Find a parking place near the airport and take the shuttle to collect the van.
Yes it will get into the 20's in the early mornings dec/jan/feb, but only below freezing for a few hours most days- not a "hard freeze"
water left in your blck/grey tanks would hold heat and if some salt were added to the water that would lower the freezing temperature below 32º

Mike

Reno, is 75 minutes from South Lake Tahoe. Not really that close. It also has a higher crime rate. I would not want to leave a nice van down there unattended. Would pursue other solutions, even if it means 'winterizing' for each trip. Thanks.

[hbn7hj]

You have the skills, you have the tools!
Good luck on the search.

Agree with compressed air for a daily winterizing technique.

[Davydd]

I keep coming back to RV friends. My first year out in a Class B we stopped at RV friends we made at our first rally. They lived 90 miles away from our home and we were on our way home to close up for the winter. Chino showed me two tiny quarter turn drain cocks on the water lines reachable below the floor of our 2005 Pleasure-way Plateau that were not in the owner's manual. They were at the very low points of the water system. We opened them up and by the time we got home jostling all the way the water lines and fresh water tank were bone dry. No pink stuff or blowing water lines needed.

[Vee and Zeekie]

Originally Posted by avanti

Sorry..
It is a mildly disparaging term for the special, non-toxic antifreeze compound that is used to winterize RV plumbing systems. You can get it at WalMart. It must be poured into drain traps to keep them from freezing. Having some in the black and grey tanks is good, too. If you have a macerator, it is important to fill it as well.

Many people also fill their freshwater system with it and pump it throughout the system to displace any residual water that might freeze and damage the plumbing. This procedure is often recommended by RV manufacturers as a "fool proof" method of winterization.

The disadvantage of this approach are (1) it is a bit involved (although not really a big deal); (2) the need to use several gallons of antifreeze for every winterization (which could be several times a year); (3) the need to flush it all out and rinse while dewinterization; and (4) it leaves a temporary aftertaste in the system that many find unpleasant.

The alternative is to blow the system out with an automotive air compressor. There is a special little plastic adaptor for this that lets you connect your compressor to your city-water inlet. This is quick and easy, but you have to follow a specific procedure to do it safely. Some folks believe that it is inherently less safe than antifreeze; others (including myself) believe that it works just fine if you do it right.

Debating this topic is an endless source of entertainment around here.

Oh wow, that really sounds involved! And not something I'd want to be doing even once a month! So, with the air compressor method, I am assuming I would have to invest in one of those? And where could I see instructions for doing it safely?

Thank you!

[Vee and Zeekie]

Originally Posted by BrianCO

Just adding another voice in support of blowing out your water lines with compressed air versus running anti-freeze through them. It really is a simple operation. Just be sure that you have a good understanding of what is needed and the process, and don't go overboard with the psi. I think it takes me about 6 minutes in total, including setting up and putting away the compressor.

This helps too: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

We drive our Passage in freezing temps frequently, just don't put water in the tanks so using it more as a travel van than RV.

Thanks for the link! I will look into this method further.

[Vee and Zeekie]

Originally Posted by Rockwood27

One thing that you should consider if you will be boondocking (no hookups) in cool/cold weather is the furnace is an electrical power hog during operation. Your battery bank needs to be of a sufficient size to make it through the night. During the day solar, generator or engine alternator can recharge them.

I don't expect to be boondocking in cold weather. But I live in a place where temps are below freezing at night in winter and that is where the vehicle will be parked between trips. I want to use the vehicle to go places in winter that are fairly close to home but not cold. That is the beauty of living in Lake Tahoe. You can be in a completely different climate in a couple or few hours!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Vee and Zeekie

Oh wow, that really sounds involved! And not something I'd want to be doing even once a month! So, with the air compressor method, I am assuming I would have to invest in one of those? And where could I see instructions for doing it safely?

Nah. Eash peasy. As I said, you need to do it a couple of times to get the hang of it, but once you get your head around it, ether technique is pretty easy. The antifreeze approach takes maybe 20 minutes, compressed air half that. Plus, with compressed air, there is essentially nothing to do to de-winterize before use.

All you need to invest in is a small automotive air compressor, which you should carry anyway, and one of these:



https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....AC_SL1500_.jpg

The web is full of step-by-step instructions for both instructions. It has also been covered several times here. A quick search will reveal all.

[Vee and Zeekie]

I ran across this article called "Best Class B RVs for Winter Traveling." https://camperreport.com/best-class-...ter-traveling/

Toward the end, the author writes about the Travato 59G as follows:

"Now, let’s discuss my absolute favorite feature in the Winnebago Travato 59G.

As I mentioned before, one of the most important problems to address while winter camping is the pipes and tanks. Well, in order to protect your RV, Winnebago includes tank heaters!

With tank heaters, you never need to fear that your tanks are going to freeze no matter how cold the temperature drops too!

The only downside to using the tank heaters is the number of AMPs required to do so.

In order to run the tank heaters, you will need at least 12 AMPs of electricity. This means that dry camping without a generator will not be as feasible during the colder temperatures."

If I got a rig with such tank heaters (that the author implies also heat the pipes), could I park it in my driveway in Tahoe in winter, plugged in to power in my garage to keep the heaters on? And would that work to keep everything from freezing? I would only have to do this at night most of the time because daytime temps are usually well above freezing.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[avanti]

Tank heaters are easy and relatively cheap, but they do NOT protect the pipes. The pipes are a much bigger issue than the tanks. Some rigs have all plumbing inside the heated envelope. In that case, if you have shore power you can simply keep the interior of the vehicle warm all winter. Even then, you need to be a bit careful, since in frigid temperatures certain areas (e.g., inside cabinets, behind panels, etc) can get quite cold. A little heat tape can work in these cases. If you have ANY outside plumbing (even an outdoor shower), you have a somewhat bigger challenge with freeze protection. Not impossible, though.

Not to be a broken record, but compressed air winterization is very easy.

[sctucker]

I prefer to use the pink stuff simply because I can still flush the toilet. You simply drain the tank, pour several gallons of the pink antifreeze in the tank and then run all the faucets until pink stuff comes out. You can then use the toilet without manually dumping pink stuff in to flush. It does have an alcohol smell to it and it is harder to get it out when you are ready to dewinterize but since I don't drink the water from my fresh water tank it's not a big deal.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by sctucker

I prefer to use the pink stuff simply because I can still flush the toilet. You simply drain the tank, pour several gallons of the pink antifreeze in the tank and then run all the faucets until pink stuff comes out. You can then use the toilet without manually dumping pink stuff in to flush. It does have an alcohol smell to it and it is harder to get it out when you are ready to dewinterize but since I don't drink the water from my fresh water tank it's not a big deal.

Are you traveling like this? Stationary?

Does the toilet get used much using this method?