Winnebago Travato thread here - Page 32

avanti · 03-10-2018, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

And, if RT was such a disaster as you suggest, why would the largest RV company in Europe inject their capital to purchase RT and expand it??

An exceptionally good brand, maybe?

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avanti

An exceptionally good brand, maybe?

And an existing factory with an experienced workforce...

booster · 03-10-2018, 10:12 PM

Personally, I think Roadtrek is still trading on a reputation that came from vans built 10 years and more ago, plus the generation of a rah-rah Saturn type group think, that has very little to do with the product and how it performs. Building the following is likely one of the few things Roadtrek has done right in the last 10 years.

If we look back, Hymer did not look like the highly polished and very precise company when the tried to come to North America. Remember the completely failed first try with, I think, Roadmaster? IMO, they bought Roadtrek because it was on fire sale by the investment company, and because they were desperate after the failed first attempt and wasted time. I certainly can't say they have done a lot to reign in the poor performance that has carried over from Roadtrek.

I also think they have a long way to go before the get to the level of quality and reputation they seem to have other places around the world, and it will be tough to do if the continue to hold on to the Roadtrek ways of doing and running business.

BBQ · 03-10-2018, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

And an existing factory with an experienced workforce...

Experienced alright -- doing the bad things repeatedly without conscience.

eg.
All the CampingWorld ordered RVs had to be returned to the factory for rework.

There are more horror stories. You are fully aware of them.

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 10:32 PM

Based on the history of acquisitions in Europe, Erwin Hymer seems to be patient and committed for the long term when get acquire a company. They haven’t cleaned out management and taken over, they work to consistently improve the quality and realign the management to their way of doing things.

True, that the initial endeavor with Spartan did not work out but I don’t think RT was a bad choice. I never understood the choice of Spartan if they were looking for expansion and high volume production.

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

Experienced alright -- doing the bad things repeatedly without conscience.

eg.
All the CampingWorld ordered RVs had to be returned to the factory for rework.

There are more horror stories. You are fully aware of them.

The experience of Toyota with taking over a GM plant in CA showed that the work force is not the issue with poor quality, the management is the issue and Erwin Hymer is inserting people to work on making the improvements. Time will tell...

booster · 03-11-2018, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

The experience of Toyota with taking over a GM plant in CA showed that the work force is not the issue with poor quality, the management is the issue and Erwin Hymer is inserting people to work on making the improvements. Time will tell...

Most acquisition data would back this statement up pretty well, I think. Most of the stuff I was involved in usually required nearly all the management to go from a struggling acquisition, but only 10-20% of the production crews were not able to adapt to new standards of work and quality. The work crew is rarely the major reason for a poorly performing factory, that is why I am still completely amazed that the old Roadtrek management is allowed anywhere near the plants.

BBQ · 03-11-2018, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Based on the history of acquisitions in Europe, Erwin Hymer seems to be patient and committed for the long term when get acquire a company. They haven’t cleaned out management and taken over, they work to consistently improve the quality and realign the management to their way of doing things.

True, that the initial endeavor with Spartan did not work out but I don’t think RT was a bad choice. I never understood the choice of Spartan if they were looking for expansion and high volume production.

You are talking from both sides of your mouth.
First you say their experienced workforce is an asset.
Well the reality says otherwise.
Now you think it is ok to have an experienced workforce to produce bad products???
Those retired folks should just have patience and wait for things to improve?
They might die tomorrow.
The anguish they put their customers through is unconscionable.

gregmchugh · 03-11-2018, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

You are talking from both sides of your mouth.
First you say their experienced workforce is an asset.
Well the reality says otherwise.
Now you think it is ok to have an experienced workforce to produce bad products???
Those retired folks should just have patience and wait for things to improve?
They might die tomorrow.
The anguish they put their customers through is unconscionable.

This is getting old fast...

I never said it was OK to produce bad products.

You have your point of view and it seems to me that you have very little interest in hearing any other views...

Have a good evening.

I am checking out on this thread which has been hijacked for too long already...

cruising7388 · 03-11-2018, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

You have your point of view and it seems to me that you have very little interest in hearing any other views....

Ya think?

avanti · 03-11-2018, 05:02 AM

Moderator comment:
This is drifting perilously close to personal attacks. Please think twice before typing a personal pronoun.

BBQ · 03-11-2018, 05:14 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYQC2CUDqZY

angelmroman · 03-11-2018, 05:26 PM

Getting the Thread back on Track a bit....

It appears that Winnebago’s Volta Package outperforms the ones offered by Coachmen's Xantrex and Roadtrek’s Ecotrek. After having this Market all to themselves at first, Roadtrek is clearly lagging behind. Your thoughts?

booster · 03-11-2018, 05:34 PM

The Volta system upped the anti by doing the much anticipated by some folks here high voltage change to 48v. That is the biggest part of the game changer, as anyone can just add more lithium batteries for capacity, and integrating controls centrally is common. At 12v you are limited to, at best, 300 amps on a single 4/0 cable which is huge. At 48v you can transport much more power on much smaller cable. Same is true for the alternator, if it is at 48 volts, you can get double the power at 1/2 the amps. This has seemed like a no brainer to a lot of us for quite a while, and it is a big step forward, I think. I am very glad they didn't just incrementally go to 24v, and went for higher, but still safe voltage.

gregmchugh · 03-11-2018, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelmroman

Getting the Thread back on Track a bit....

It appears that Winnebago’s Volta Package outperforms the ones offered by Coachmen's Xantrex and Roadtrek’s Ecotrek. After having this Market all to themselves at first, Roadtrek is clearly lagging behind. Your thoughts?

Well, we have not seen the prices yet for the Volta option on the Travato or for the retrofit kits so that is a factor in this.

No question in my view that the Volta system is a superior system to the Roadtrek. Besides the better performance, it has better integration of superior system components, automotive grade hardware, and probably automotive grade software. The only design changes I have heard of for Roadtrek is a move to an integrated battery bank rather than multiple Ecotrek 200 AH modules.

So, what will be the cost of the Volta is the main question in my mind...

gerrym51 · 03-11-2018, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Well, we have not seen the prices yet for the Volta option on the Travato or for the retrofit kits so that is a factor in this.

No question in my view that the Volta system is a superior system to the Roadtrek. Besides the better performance, it has better integration of superior system components, automotive grade hardware, and probably automotive grade software. The only design changes I have heard of for Roadtrek is a move to an integrated battery bank rather than multiple Ecotrek 200 AH modules.

So, what will be the cost of the Volta is the main question in my mind...

If roadtrek moves to an integrated system there will be a riot from every ecotrek owner that bought in the last 3 years

gerrym51 · 03-11-2018, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Well, we have not seen the prices yet for the Volta option on the Travato or for the retrofit kits so that is a factor in this.

No question in my view that the Volta system is a superior system to the Roadtrek. Besides the better performance, it has better integration of superior system components, automotive grade hardware, and probably automotive grade software. The only design changes I have heard of for Roadtrek is a move to an integrated battery bank rather than multiple Ecotrek 200 AH modules.

So, what will be the cost of the Volta is the main question in my mind...

Travato Volta is NOT an option. The 59kl and the 59gl will be excusively volta systems and what goes with them from scratch.

59K and 59G will be onans just like now.

I have seen stuff 59kl and 59gl 18,000 dollars more

cruising7388 · 03-11-2018, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

The only design changes I have heard of for Roadtrek is a move to an integrated battery bank rather than multiple Ecotrek 200 AH modules.

Aren't they working on introducing Son of Coach Connect?

gregmchugh · 03-11-2018, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Travato Volta is NOT an option. The 59kl and the 59gl will be excusively volta systems and what goes with them from scratch.

59K and 59G will be onans just like now.

I have seen stuff 59kl and 59gl 18,000 dollars more

OK, I will reword it...

We don’t know the price difference between the Volta equipped Travato and the standard equipped Travato...

gregmchugh · 03-11-2018, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Aren't they working on introducing Son of Coach Connect?

I was supposed to be reintroduced last year some time with an updated design that hopefully won’t have the issues that were seen in the original version.

There have been a couple reports of vans with the new Coach Connect but they have not been promoting a new version that I have seen so maybe these are ones with the original system that has been updated.

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