Winnebago Travato thread here - Page 31

skiMore · 03-10-2018, 03:07 PM

Winnebago just announced new battery and underhood generator tech for the 59GL and 59KL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwBJ3WFbgdw

BBQ · 03-10-2018, 04:43 PM

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They are smart; they are using a specialist to do their system (Volta) instead of making them in-house like RT did.

gerrym51 · 03-10-2018, 05:15 PM

if you want all available options build a Travato at rvdirect. Have them send you a quote. the new volta system is not available yet though

gerrym51 · 03-10-2018, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

They are smart; they are using a specialist to do their system (Volta) instead of making them in-house like RT did.

can't patent someone else's

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51

can't patent someone else's

Has RT applied for any patents on their designs? I don’t see anything that is unique. Proprietary, yes, but not anything that would be unique enough to be get a patent.

booster · 03-10-2018, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Has RT applied for any patents on their designs? I don’t see anything that is unique. Proprietary, yes, but not anything that would be unique enough to be get a patent.

They made a big deal about "proprietary" system, but I also don't recall seeing anything about patents. You know that folks like Tesla and Apple are going to have any and all innovative stuff tied up with patents, so highly unlikely that Roadtrek has anything really new in their system. If they did, they would not have the horrendous parasitic losses and high failure rates.

gerrym51 · 03-10-2018, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Has RT applied for any patents on their designs? I don’t see anything that is unique. Proprietary, yes, but not anything that would be unique enough to be get a patent.

Hey Greg-are you doing all this communicating from your rolling tank. Are you on a mountain top.? you have a volta system if i remember correctly.

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Hey Greg-are you doing all this communicating from your rolling tank. Are you on a mountain top.? you have a volta system if i remember correctly.

Actually visiting our daughter in FL to have fun with our new grand daughter...

Our electrical system in the truck is from Mastervolt which is in the Netherlands and makes high end marine electrical systems. Not sure how the prices of Mastervolt components compare to Volta since I have not seen any prices for the Volta system option on the ARV or Travato or the retrofit kits they are selling.

Just for reference, the 720 AH lithium battery bank (2 x 360 AH batteries) we have from Mastervolt sells for about $13,000 and the 4000 watt/200 amp inverter charger is about $3700.

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

They made a big deal about "proprietary" system, but I also don't recall seeing anything about patents. You know that folks like Tesla and Apple are going to have any and all innovative stuff tied up with patents, so highly unlikely that Roadtrek has anything really new in their system. If they did, they would not have the horrendous parasitic losses and high failure rates.

Yes, nothing really innovative about the RT system. The design and development of electronics for vehicles or for the commercial marine market is not something that is easy to just jump into. High reliability and ruggedness in these environments is developed over a long period and the testing required to insure performance is not trivial. Not as difficult as avionics but not close to consumer electronics.

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

They are smart; they are using a specialist to do their system (Volta) instead of making them in-house like RT did.

I wouldn’t classify decisions like that as smart or dumb. There is a lower potential risk/lower potential profit approach that uses outside suppliers for systems that are not in your area of expertise. Then there is a higher potential risk/higher potential profit approach where you quickly develop something outside your area of expertise, get it to market before the competition, and have the potential for a period of high profit while you have the market to yourself. Not sure the RT approach optimized the potential for high potential profit but they did get the higher potential risk of failure for a period before they got the bugs out...

BBQ · 03-10-2018, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I wouldn’t classify decisions like that as smart or dumb. There is a lower potential risk/lower potential profit approach that uses outside suppliers for systems that are not in your area of expertise. Then there is a higher potential risk/higher potential profit approach where you quickly develop something outside your area of expertise, get it to market before the competition, and have the potential for a period of high profit while you have the market to yourself. Not sure the RT approach optimized the potential for high potential profit but they did get the higher potential risk of failure for a period before they got the bugs out...

YOu have just substantiated what i said -- it's a smart move.

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

YOu have just substantiated what i said -- it's a smart move.

For a conservative company it is a smart move, for a company that wants to innovate and lead the market it is not a smart move but it is a more risk prone move to be innovative...

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

YOu have just substantiated what i said -- it's a smart move.

You could also look at the RT strategy as a smart move. The innovation that they did, while not without problems, may have been a deciding factor in the acquisition of RT by Erwin Hymer which kept the company in business and positioned them to have a much longer life and a more secure future for the employees and a strategy for growth with new product lines.

They were stagnating when owned by the investment group...

BBQ · 03-10-2018, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

You could also look at the RT strategy as a smart move. The innovation that they did, while not without problems, may have been a deciding factor in the acquisition of RT by Erwin Hymer which kept the company in business and positioned them to have a much longer life and a more secure future for the employees and a strategy for growth with new product lines.

They were stagnating when owned by the investment group...

RT was inept.

They had bitten off more than they could chew.
The way they treat their customers was blatantly unethical.

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

RT was inept.

They had bitten off more than they could chew.
The way they treat their customers were borderline criminal.

And yet, they have stayed in the top 2 spots for Class B sales, trading number 1 back and forth with Winnebago. They have a pretty solid future with the introduction of the lightweight travel trailers and more European products from Erwin Hymer. They could very well have been closed down if the investment company didn’t find a buyer. They have a very loyal customer base that is willing to stick with them and while the management gets very little respect here on this forum, just go over to the Roadtreking Facebook Group and see how many fans there are for Jim Hammill. We don’t know the actual percentage of customers that have gotten poor treatment but we do know that the majority seem to be happy with the company. I bought a 4 year old one and have been happy with it for the last 6 years. I have no complaints myself in terms of my Roadtrek or with the Freightliner Sprinter chassis or my dealings with either company. But mine is old technology and pre DEF diesel so very few things to go wrong with it.

BBQ · 03-10-2018, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

And yet, they have stayed in the top 2 spots for Class B sales, trading number 1 back and forth with Winnebago. They have a pretty solid future with the introduction of the lightweight travel trailers and more European products from Erwin Hymer. They could very well have been closed down if the investment company didn’t find a buyer. They have a very loyal customer base that is willing to stick with them and while the management gets very little respect here on this forum, just go over to the Roadtreking Facebook Group and see how many fans there are for Jim Hammill. We don’t know the actual percentage of customers that have gotten poor treatment but we do know that the majority seem to be happy with the company. I bought a 4 year old one and have been happy with it for the last 6 years. I have no complaints myself in terms of my Roadtrek or with the Freightliner Sprinter chassis or my dealings with either company. But mine is old technology and pre DEF diesel so very few things to go wrong with it.

Even you bailed. That speaks volume.

In another word, you are saying the #1 is making the smart move.

gregmchugh · 03-10-2018, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

Even you bailed. That speaks volume.

In another word, you are saying the #1 is making the smart move.

Not sure what you mean about bailing???

Just decided we needed something bigger and more rugged for our full time travel vehicle than a Sprinter camper van.

As I said, I have no complaints myself about our RT or our interactions with RT or with Freightliner for the chassis. I do feel empathy for those RT customers who have not been treated well, no real excuse for that...

Staying in business and growing and making profits and expanding with a new factory and more employees and having a loyal and growing customer base all seem to be smart moves to me. Could this all have been done and also not pissing off a significant number of customers? Sure, that would have been a better outcome but it is what it is and it could have been a lot worse...

BBQ · 03-10-2018, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Not sure what you mean about bailing???

Just decided we needed something bigger and more rugged for our full time travel vehicle than a Sprinter camper van.

As I said, I have no complaints myself about our RT or our interactions with RT or with Freightliner for the chassis. I do feel empathy for those RT customers who have not been treated well, no real excuse for that...

Staying in business and growing and making profits and expanding with a new factory and more employees and having a loyal and growing customer base all seem to be smart moves to me. Could this all have been done and also not pissing off a significant number of customers? Sure, that would have been a better outcome but it is what it is and it could have been a lot worse...

Simple... it requires an injection of foreign capital.