Winnebago stops all Paseo orders

[Eldon]

Winnebago marketing has informed me they have stopped taking orders for the Paseo in the Ford Transit 3.5 EcoBoost. I asked why, but she wouldn’t disclose any reason.
Are there any other Class B makers using the Ford Transit 3.5 EcoBoost? I want that additional horsepower and torque the EcoBoost has.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Eldon

Winnebago marketing has informed me they have stopped taking orders for the Paseo in the Ford Transit 3.5 EcoBoost. I asked why, but she wouldn’t disclose any reason.
Are there any other Class B makers using the Ford Transit 3.5 EcoBoost? I want that additional horsepower and torque the EcoBoost has.

They have stopped taking orders for a few months.

Main reason -- poor sales.
The RV is expensive; almost as expensive as their Sprinter based ERA,
for nothing more than the much cheaper Travato.

Coachman is still building the Crossfit on the Transit platform.

[jgmarcotte]

Very difficult do make a good design with a Ford Transit better to look at a Dodge Ram Promaster in Europe most of the RV are made on Fiat Ducato which is the same as Dodge Ram Promaster. On the Transit all the wall are curve and also because of the hand break no possibility of having swivel seat. If you buy the hight roof it is still not hight enough for a 6' 2 inches persons.

[skagitstan]

Originally Posted by jgmarcotte

Very difficult do make a good design with a Ford Transit better to look at a Dodge Ram Promaster in Europe most of the RV are made on Fiat Ducato which is the same as Dodge Ram Promaster. On the Transit all the wall are curve and also because of the hand break no possibility of having swivel seat. If you buy the hight roof it is still not hight enough for a 6' 2 inches persons.

It's very possible to do a nice (custom) build on a Transit...with good headroom. A lot of folks have done one, see the FordTransitUSA site.
It is also possible to put in swivel seats. I just installed a Scopema passenger seat swivel, and I KNOW they sell a driver seat swivel with a handbrake adapter.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by BBQ

They have stopped taking orders for a few months.

Main reason -- poor sales.
The RV is expensive; almost as expensive as their Sprinter based ERA,
for nothing more than the much cheaper Travato.

Coachman is still building the Crossfit on the Transit platform.

Chief reasons,

1. Poor profit contribution, in other words, they don't make enough money on each sale compared to what it cost them to build.

2. Poor sales; people are NOT buying it which translates into discontinued item

3. Terrible reputation is tamping customer enthusiasm, see point 2

4. They change the name to run away and hide because of the terrible reputation.... just ask Chrysler... they have to keep changing the names and models of their terrible cars...they get bad reviews and people don't have any confidence in the product.

The Ford Transit 350 has a very confined front dashboard... just try getting out of the driver's seat to go the bathroom..... it's so tight, many of you would rather exit the driver's door go around and enter from the entrance door on the coach.... this is BAD...

[jon]

Originally Posted by jgmarcotte

Very difficult do make a good design with a Ford Transit better to look at a Dodge Ram Promaster in Europe most of the RV are made on Fiat Ducato which is the same as Dodge Ram Promaster. On the Transit all the wall are curve and also because of the hand break no possibility of having swivel seat.

I just ordered a 2019 transit with a (new) push down parking brake that allows for a drivers swivel seat.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by jon

I just ordered a 2019 transit with a (new) push down parking brake that allows for a drivers swivel seat.

Is this a factory change or after market?

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by jon

I just ordered a 2019 transit with a (new) push down parking brake that allows for a drivers swivel seat.

Hmm, maybe they fixed this to in the 2019 model.... but, the older model I saw for 2017 had such a cramped space between the two front seats you had to be a contortionist to move from the driver's or passengers seat to access the rear of the vehicle....

Has that been addressed???

The space up front is SO much easier to live with on the Mercedes Benz Sprinter....

[jon]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Is this a factory change or after market?

Factory order.

[jon]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Hmm, maybe they fixed this to in the 2019 model.... but, the older model I saw for 2017 had such a cramped space between the two front seats you had to be a contortionist to move from the driver's or passengers seat to access the rear of the vehicle....

Has that been addressed???

The space up front is SO much easier to live with on the Mercedes Benz Sprinter....

I did notice that it was harder to move from the front seat but not not nearly enough of an issue to stop me from getting rid of my current DAMN DEISEL Sprinter.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by jon

I did notice that it was harder to move from the front seat but not not nearly enough of an issue to stop me from getting rid of my current DAMN DEISEL Sprinter.

What year was your Sprinter????
I've had a few issues, but, I really do appreciate the diesel engine..

[jon]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

What year was your Sprinter????
I've had a few issues, but, I really do appreciate the diesel engine..

I have a 2015 4x4 V6 5sp I bought new.
I had a complete diesel rant composed but lost it. Better to be more polite and say that I will be happier with a gasoline engine.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by jon

I have a 2015 4x4 V6 5sp I bought new.
I had a complete diesel rant composed but lost it. Better to be more polite and say that I will be happier with a gasoline engine.

Could you please tell me how many miles were on the truck when this occurred?

[jon]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Could you please tell me how many miles were on the truck when this occurred?

About 12k when the problems started and 30k when they finally got fixed.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by jon

About 12k when the problems started and 30k when they finally got fixed.

Jon, I'm sure that you know that the emissions system is warranted for eight years or 80,000 miles...

And, I hope you didn't have to pay anything for the fix..

My 2012 RS Adventurous is on the 2011 Mercedes Benz Sprinter 3500... I probably have the same engine OM642... which is the 3 litre V6....

Thankfully...MB fixed and replaced my entire emissions system recently at 39,000 miles..the catalytic converter, NOx sensors and some other stuff.. would have been $4,000 if not under warranty....so, I understand....

Maybe you don't want to go forward...I have some concerns as well....On the other hand...I love driving it and don't think that a gasoline engine would work as well going through mountain passes....it's a lot of weight....

I noticed that climbing steep grades...the Mercedes Benz seems to glide past a lot of vehicles struggling to keep up.... and the engine spins at a lower RPM.. since it's a diesel....no power loss at high altitude......

All of these benefits are what you have with the diesel.... plus... I have known people going hundreds of thousands miles on these engines....met someone in Canada with 800,000 km... that's almost 500,000 miles.... original engine and transmission.....

I don't know.... you purchased it new in 2015...I'm sure it's nicely appointed..... turning that around four years later.... don't you think that you'll be killed with the deprecation loss of value???? I mean you only have 30,000 miles.....

What are you using your 4 by 4 for exactly.?? I really don't see most people taking an RV off road....too many things can rattle off the cabinets... unless you have a special suspension...do you??

How much off roading do you actually do?

I would more than likely take my Subaru Outback off road than any Sprinter... smaller and more agile.....

I've seen some Sports Mobile's set up for this...is that what you have???
Again the price for replacement of the vehicle and and the difference between what you paid can be shocking.....

---Mark

[jon]

And, I hope you didn't have to pay anything for the fix..

The MB dealer had been very accommodating. I haven’t paid for anything except a rental car in CA for two days. That’s another fun one 10 starts before limp mode when your 1000 miles from home.

My 2012 RS Adventurous is on the 2011 Mercedes Benz Sprinter 3500... I probably have the same engine OM642... which is the 3 litre V6....

Thankfully...MB fixed and replaced my entire emissions system recently at 39,000 miles..the catalytic converter, NOx sensors and some other stuff.. would have been $4,000 if not under warranty....so, I understand....
Maybe you don't want to go forward...I have some concerns as well....On the other hand...I love driving it and don't think that a gasoline engine would work as well going through mountain passes....it's a lot of weight....

I loved the way my MB cruised….until it didn’t cruise good. It started losing power on mountain passes. Bogged down I even had to crest one mountain pass with my emergency flashers on while driving on the shoulder.

I noticed that climbing steep grades...the Mercedes Benz seems to glide past a lot of vehicles struggling to keep up.... and the engine spins at a lower RPM.. since it's a diesel....no power loss at high altitude......
I know all about the low RPM torque of diesel engines but have learned about the 400 ft-lb of torque at 2000 RPM of the Ford 3.5 ecoboost engine.
All of these benefits are what you have with the diesel.... plus... I have known people going hundreds of thousands miles on these engines....met someone in Canada with 800,000 km... that's almost 500,000 miles.... original engine and transmission.....
I don't know.... you purchased it new in 2015...I'm sure it's nicely appointed..... turning that around four years later.... don't you think that you'll be killed with the deprecation loss of value???? I mean you only have 30,000 miles.....

Good for all these people. My diesel would probably last for lots of miles too…Now that everything seems to be fixed. I, for one do not want to keep my sprinter because I don’t trust it to be problem free. In 2000 I had diesel problems with a Volkswagen TDI commuter car. It was great until about 40K when the manifolds started clogging up with soot. I ended up hating that car and swore never again would I buy a diesel. This time I thought that the new low sulfur diesel would be better. Since switched to gas I’ve never had another problem until I bought the diesel Sprinter. No. I don’t care how much of a hit I’ll take. Not worrying about when my Campervan will break down next will be priceless.

What are you using your 4 by 4 for exactly.?? I really don't see most people taking an RV off road....too many things can rattle off the cabinets... unless you have a special suspension...do you??

How much off roading do you actually do?

I don’t off road. The Mrs wanted to have the 4x4 to take skiing or winter driving. It’s actually our BIG SUV. That we can camp/road trip/home depot run in. Since I don’t commute to work any longer it’s my main car.

Jon

[avanti]

Originally Posted by jon

That’s another fun one 10 starts before limp mode when your 1000 miles from home.
...
I loved the way my MB cruised….until it didn’t cruise good. It started losing power on mountain passes. Bogged down I even had to crest one mountain pass with my emergency flashers on while driving on the shoulder.
...
Good for all these people. My diesel would probably last for lots of miles too…Now that everything seems to be fixed. I, for one do not want to keep my sprinter because I don’t trust it to be problem free.
...
Since switched to gas I’ve never had another problem until I bought the diesel Sprinter. No. I don’t care how much of a hit I’ll take. Not worrying about when my Campervan will break down next will be priceless.

Yep, this pretty much sums it up. Until they have experienced a few of these failures, people just don't appreciate how much of the enjoyment of B-van travel is drained out of the experience by the knowledge that the next "10 start" countdown can hit you any time and any place.

The Sprinter is such a great vehicle otherwise that some people simply can't seem to admit to themselves that this major downside exists, despite the overwhelming evidence.

In our case, we are not currently tempted to bail. We have a lot of effort invested in our semi-custom coach and it is just about perfect for us. Plus, we have developed numerous coping strategies: I carry a dedicated laptop with the MB Xentry software installed, which under some circumstances can help us with temporary workarounds of the emissions failures, and we plan our trips with enough leeway to deal with surprise dealer visits. So, Sprinter ownership is not untenable, and as I have said, the upsides are significant, and the alternatives are not obviously that much better. But it seems very clear to me that diesel is dead, and I say "good riddance."

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yep, this pretty much sums it up. Until they have experienced a few of these failures, people just don't appreciate how much of the enjoyment of B-van travel is drained out of the experience by the knowledge that the next "10 start" countdown can hit you any time and any place.

The Sprinter is such a great vehicle otherwise that some people simply can't seem to admit to themselves that this major downside exists, despite the overwhelming evidence.

In our case, we are not currently tempted to bail. We have a lot of effort invested in our semi-custom coach and it is just about perfect for us. Plus, we have developed numerous coping strategies: I carry a dedicated laptop with the MB Xentry software installed, which under some circumstances can help us with temporary workarounds of the emissions failures, and we plan our trips with enough leeway to deal with surprise dealer visits. So, Sprinter ownership is not untenable, and as I have said, the upsides are significant, and the alternatives are not obviously that much better. But it seems very clear to me that diesel is dead, and I say "good riddance."

Don't expect to find an 2019 RS Adventurous or E-TREK on the gasoline platform...
The larger 3500 series like mine will still be diesel only....

And, the "electric Sprinter" is ONLY available in Europe... not the United States... WHY?
Probably they're test market is in Europe...and the range... well... think of the electric Sprinter and most other electric cars as "city cars".....the range on the Sprinter might be 100 to 150 miles..a perfect delivery truck..

I know a lot of people have their reservations about diesel.. but, the longevity of the base engine ( even though I know people claiming that their gasoline engines will last as long)... maybe?? Diesel engines are built to withstand higher compression and the metal casing is much stronger than gasoline engines.....

I'm planning on keeping my rig for at least five years....then re-evaluate the situation....

[BillsPaseo]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Chief reasons,

1. Poor profit contribution, in other words, they don't make enough money on each sale compared to what it cost them to build.

2. Poor sales; people are NOT buying it which translates into discontinued item

3. Terrible reputation is tamping customer enthusiasm, see point 2

4. They change the name to run away and hide because of the terrible reputation.... just ask Chrysler... they have to keep changing the names and models of their terrible cars...they get bad reviews and people don't have any confidence in the product.

The Ford Transit 350 has a very confined front dashboard... just try getting out of the driver's seat to go the bathroom..... it's so tight, many of you would rather exit the driver's door go around and enter from the entrance door on the coach.... this is BAD...

I don't know where you've heard that the Paseo has a terrible reputation. I own one and am active on the Facebook group. Most owners are very happy with theirs. There have been a few minor issues (same as the Travato), but that is true of pretty much all RVs. The only issue we have had with ours was leaky wet bath - there was insufficient caulk around the base of the toilet, so when you took a shower, water would leak out underneath the van. Took about 10 minutes and one tube of bathroom caulk to fix it, no trip to the dealer required.

We are absolutely delighted with our Paseo. In 6.5 months of ownership, we've put about 10K miles on it, and spent about 30 nights in it. We tow an enclosed trailer with it, and I really appreciate the power of the Ford Transit chassis with the EcoBoost engine. And really glad I don't have a diesel.

The main reason the Paseo hasn't sold well is because of the bed design. It really only works for people who are about 5'9" or shorter. This severely limited their market. I'm 5'7" and my wife is 5'5" so it works just fine for us.

And I don't really understand the complaints about getting out of the front seat to get to the back. We do it all the time, no issues at all.

[jon]

Originally Posted by BillsPaseo

And I don't really understand the complaints about getting out of the front seat to get to the back. We do it all the time, no issues at all.

I only noticed a slight inconvenience getting to back from the drivers seat. Maybe it's because we don't have size 12 feet.