Winnebago On The Move

[BBQ]

Roadtrek is not the only one changing.

Winnebago has ambitious plans too.

Article here:
Iowa's iconic Winnebago retools to attract younger buyers

[Davydd]

Interesting article. I had heard rumors but didn't know the Winnebago headquarters had moved to the Twin Cities.

Millennials are now officially the largest adult demographic surpassing baby boomers. Winnbago and other RV manufacturers have no choice but to try to crack that market. They will be a tougher market.

When I was of the age of current millennials I couldn't dream of owning an RV and was a tent camper for 40 years. However, I was of the generation that grew up and worshipped automobiles and actually worked on them. Millennials eschew them for the most part or look on them as necessary commodities only. They are pretty much incapable of self-maintaining cars as we of the older generation once did. So, I doubt they will develop much empathy.

Millennials lip service tiny homes and such but looking at the home market as I have done this year I don't see a stampede to them. I suspect the same with motorhomes until they reach near retirement. Family considerations and cost will keep them in the towable market if they get in at all.

They are smarter about possessions as well with minimal attitudes. Maybe the real market will be rental. They Uber with no fear and think nothing of using CartoGos and bicycle rentals to get from A to B. My generation had no concept of that. Millennials are not as well off as the older generations which may further threaten the RV industry. Statistically they are less participant in outdoor wilderness activity. Hunting and fishing is down significantly. Biking and hiking is up.

Winnebago has to figure all this out but I suspect there are only so many FitRV type people out there. The Class B market remains a very small market and I suspect Marko's monthly postings with sales increases really are not keeping up with a growing population market on a per capita basis.

[SiennaGuy]

Here are my observations:

I think that millennials don't see or use the outdoors the way that those who came before them did. Hunting and fishing may be down, but at least here in California, state parks and campgrounds are full. They want to hike and bike in the outdoors, not hunt and fish. For the RV industry to pivot 180 degrees to appeal to them (and to me), the floor plan of an ideal RV needs to change from two lounge chairs facing a TV, to one centered around a comfortable bed, shower and mobile bike rack.

Millennials grew up in an era of energy efficiency, so hybrid engines, insulation and LED lights are no-brainers to them. RVs without those things seem like dinosaurs. An RV that gets only 12 mpg is completely out of the question, regardless of the current price of gasoline or diesel. They've learned that, in the long term, the price for fuel is only going to go up. They don't ever think that the price will come down to where it was "in the good old days." To them, small vehicles are much more desirable than large ones.

I'd bet that very, very few of them would ever even consider staying in an RV park. They want to boondock. Not just boondock occasionally. Whenever they go anywhere, they want to boondock. If they were to buy or rent an RV, it's got to be set up for that. They, like me, probably think that it's insane to have to level an entire vehicle so that one appliance will work. After all, the appliances in their kitchen have adjustable legs. Slide outs and things that only work with full hookups are OK in an RV park, but are serious inconveniences while boondocking. Storage designed to fit golf bags is meaningless.

Things like standard pre-wired wi-fi are assumed by millennials. They assume that there will be wi-fi in any hotel and in any restaurant. They resent having to research and find suitable wi-fi add-ons to an RV. To them, an RV with just a little solar power is a joke. They want a lot of electricity to run high-tech toys and expect it all to be powered by solar.

Also critical to those who grew up in a technological age is quality. Things that fall apart because the manufacturer is lazy or careless just won't make the grade. They grew up with 3D modeling, robot manufacturing and computer-aided design. They can't afford to waste money and they want things that last. Just adding USB ports on a dated design means very little.

Whether they buy, rent or share an RV, the RV itself has to be different. And that's the challenge for manufacturers.

[Twinbridges]

Very well said!

[Twinbridges]

As a designer, it is a design project. Maybe a great project for a Design School to take on.

[Marley]

Originally Posted by SiennaGuy

Here are my observations:

I think that millennials don't see or use the outdoors the way that those who came before them did. Hunting and fishing may be down, but at least here in California, state parks and campgrounds are full. They want to hike and bike in the outdoors, not hunt and fish. For the RV industry to pivot 180 degrees to appeal to them (and to me), the floor plan of an ideal RV needs to change from two lounge chairs facing a TV, to one centered around a comfortable bed, shower and mobile bike rack.

Millennials grew up in an era of energy efficiency, so hybrid engines, insulation and LED lights are no-brainers to them. RVs without those things seem like dinosaurs. An RV that gets only 12 mpg is completely out of the question, regardless of the current price of gasoline or diesel. They've learned that, in the long term, the price for fuel is only going to go up. They don't ever think that the price will come down to where it was "in the good old days." To them, small vehicles are much more desirable than large ones.

I'd bet that very, very few of them would ever even consider staying in an RV park. They want to boondock. Not just boondock occasionally. Whenever they go anywhere, they want to boondock. If they were to buy or rent an RV, it's got to be set up for that. They, like me, probably think that it's insane to have to level an entire vehicle so that one appliance will work. After all, the appliances in their kitchen have adjustable legs. Slide outs and things that only work with full hookups are OK in an RV park, but are serious inconveniences while boondocking. Storage designed to fit golf bags is meaningless.

Things like standard pre-wired wi-fi are assumed by millennials. They assume that there will be wi-fi in any hotel and in any restaurant. They resent having to research and find suitable wi-fi add-ons to an RV. To them, an RV with just a little solar power is a joke. They want a lot of electricity to run high-tech toys and expect it all to be powered by solar.

Also critical to those who grew up in a technological age is quality. Things that fall apart because the manufacturer is lazy or careless just won't make the grade. They grew up with 3D modeling, robot manufacturing and computer-aided design. They can't afford to waste money and they want things that last. Just adding USB ports on a dated design means very little.

Whether they buy, rent or share an RV, the RV itself has to be different. And that's the challenge for manufacturers.

Have to agree with you on this except that I'm supposedly a 'baby boomer' (born in the last month of 1959) and I want the kind of vehicle you are talking about.
I have looked at what is on the market right now and there isn't any one product that really has what I want.
We have decided to put off our purchase for a year because I think the next year will really bring some innovative B units to market priced around $100k.

[Davydd]

State parks and campgrounds are full everywhere but that is because there has been little increase in parks and campsites to keep up with population growth.

[Viperml]

I think people are not not looking at the biggest problem.
Many Millennials just do not save money.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-...182226193.html
Many do not have good jobs because they did not go to college for a good education.

There are millennials doing well that people do not speak about. These millennials went to college for a good education. They have good jobs. They will in time get older and have families. Many of them will go on vacations just as baby boomers did when they worked. RV's will be different when they get older and when they retire. Just as RV's are different today than they were 30 years ago when Baby Boomers were working.

[Boxster1971]

That article doesn't say that Winnebago is moving their headquarters to Twin Cities. They just opened a corporate office there to draw on a bigger talent/resource pool than is available in Forest City.

Here is original story from last December.
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincitie...nds-to-mn.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Navanod]

Originally Posted by SiennaGuy

Here are my observations:

I think that millennials don't see or use the outdoors the way that those who came before them did. Hunting and fishing may be down, but at least here in California, state parks and campgrounds are full. They want to hike and bike in the outdoors, not hunt and fish. For the RV industry to pivot 180 degrees to appeal to them (and to me), the floor plan of an ideal RV needs to change from two lounge chairs facing a TV, to one centered around a comfortable bed, shower and mobile bike rack.

Millennials grew up in an era of energy efficiency, so hybrid engines, insulation and LED lights are no-brainers to them. RVs without those things seem like dinosaurs. An RV that gets only 12 mpg is completely out of the question, regardless of the current price of gasoline or diesel. They've learned that, in the long term, the price for fuel is only going to go up. They don't ever think that the price will come down to where it was "in the good old days." To them, small vehicles are much more desirable than large ones.

I'd bet that very, very few of them would ever even consider staying in an RV park. They want to boondock. Not just boondock occasionally. Whenever they go anywhere, they want to boondock. If they were to buy or rent an RV, it's got to be set up for that. They, like me, probably think that it's insane to have to level an entire vehicle so that one appliance will work. After all, the appliances in their kitchen have adjustable legs. Slide outs and things that only work with full hookups are OK in an RV park, but are serious inconveniences while boondocking. Storage designed to fit golf bags is meaningless.

Things like standard pre-wired wi-fi are assumed by millennials. They assume that there will be wi-fi in any hotel and in any restaurant. They resent having to research and find suitable wi-fi add-ons to an RV. To them, an RV with just a little solar power is a joke. They want a lot of electricity to run high-tech toys and expect it all to be powered by solar.

Also critical to those who grew up in a technological age is quality. Things that fall apart because the manufacturer is lazy or careless just won't make the grade. They grew up with 3D modeling, robot manufacturing and computer-aided design. They can't afford to waste money and they want things that last. Just adding USB ports on a dated design means very little.

Whether they buy, rent or share an RV, the RV itself has to be different. And that's the challenge for manufacturers.

I'm younger and I agree 100%!

[wincrasher]

I always find these discussions pretty humorous.

There is no harm in trying to figure out millenials. In about 30 years, they may be in the market to buy an RV. What needs more work is to cater to those just after the boomers. The X generation is rapidly approaching those years where you buy. That group is probably not all that different in desires as millenials - solar, connectivity, modern styling, boondocking capability, etc. Only we already have money and are interested in buying soon. Not decades from now.

In a country of 300+ million people, they typically sell 250,000-300,000 new RV's a year. Even if they were producing crap design with missing features, you'll always be able to find a few hundred thousand tolerant customers out of the many, many millions of people who both have money and desire to go camping. Or just the idea of going camping. So many RV's are bought and then parked in storage and hardly ever used, it boggles the mind. That is the reason you can still get a spot in a campground, even though new construction in the last twenty to thirty years has been abysmally low.

Whether or not there are fewer people that like camping, or the outdoors, is irrelevant. The market is so small, and the general population is so large and growing, there will always be "enough" to feed this tiny market. Whether there is enough desire to substantially grow the market is another argument. I see no trends to indicate anything but very modest growth in the long term - just too many headwinds as indicated above - quality, wealth, fuel cost, interest, etc.

Maybe the speculation that future RV users will be renters is true. That's fine I guess. I doubt it expands the market. It's just putting things in different buckets - out of the individual owner market to the rental market. That is how many of the car manufacturers see it - they still expect to keep building the 16-18 million cars they make each year - just who buys them they expect will change.

[Keyne]

I am a gen x with a great career and I am ready to buy what was described for millenials. I want wifi, iPad mounts instead or in addition to Tv, space for bikes, folding kayak etc inside. I want a good bed, a decent bathroom with shower, solar, and ability to boondock in stealth.

More importantly I want a quality product without some of the older style appliances like a propane generator, heater, and hot water. The tech is available but not widely used. It's been hard to find what we want without going custom that takes a long time.

It's been fascinating to learn more about the market and what is available, and hope things do become more modern but for us if we want to keep to our desired plan the options are few.

[skagitstan]

Originally Posted by SiennaGuy

Here are my observations:

I think that millennials don't see or use the outdoors the way that those who came before them did. Hunting and fishing may be down, but at least here in California, state parks and campgrounds are full. They want to hike and bike in the outdoors, not hunt and fish. For the RV industry to pivot 180 degrees to appeal to them (and to me), the floor plan of an ideal RV needs to change from two lounge chairs facing a TV, to one centered around a comfortable bed, shower and mobile bike rack.

Millennials grew up in an era of energy efficiency, so hybrid engines, insulation and LED lights are no-brainers to them. RVs without those things seem like dinosaurs. An RV that gets only 12 mpg is completely out of the question, regardless of the current price of gasoline or diesel. They've learned that, in the long term, the price for fuel is only going to go up. They don't ever think that the price will come down to where it was "in the good old days." To them, small vehicles are much more desirable than large ones.

I'd bet that very, very few of them would ever even consider staying in an RV park. They want to boondock. Not just boondock occasionally. Whenever they go anywhere, they want to boondock. If they were to buy or rent an RV, it's got to be set up for that. They, like me, probably think that it's insane to have to level an entire vehicle so that one appliance will work. After all, the appliances in their kitchen have adjustable legs. Slide outs and things that only work with full hookups are OK in an RV park, but are serious inconveniences while boondocking. Storage designed to fit golf bags is meaningless.

Things like standard pre-wired wi-fi are assumed by millennials. They assume that there will be wi-fi in any hotel and in any restaurant. They resent having to research and find suitable wi-fi add-ons to an RV. To them, an RV with just a little solar power is a joke. They want a lot of electricity to run high-tech toys and expect it all to be powered by solar.

Also critical to those who grew up in a technological age is quality. Things that fall apart because the manufacturer is lazy or careless just won't make the grade. They grew up with 3D modeling, robot manufacturing and computer-aided design. They can't afford to waste money and they want things that last. Just adding USB ports on a dated design means very little.

Whether they buy, rent or share an RV, the RV itself has to be different. And that's the challenge for manufacturers.

I guess I was a millennial before being millennial was cool.
Heck I'm 70, a retired engineer, and want the same stuff and quality!
It's not being made commercially at an affordable price.
So I'm in the middle of building my own.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by skagitstan

I guess I was a millennial before being millennial was cool.
Heck I'm 70, a retired engineer, and want the same stuff and quality!
It's not being made commercially at an affordable price.
So I'm in the middle of building my own.


http://anniebuild.blogspot.com/

Wow... that's amazing work you are doing.

[SiennaGuy]

Millennials who did go to college are typically buried deep in debt that previous generations didn't have. The cost of a college education (especially tuition, even at state schools) has skyrocketed. So even if they do get a good job after getting their degree, the amount that they have after the bills are paid is dramatically less than it was for those who graduated before them. On top of that, the cost of housing, whether for rental or purchase, has also skyrocketed in many areas. Yes, ideally, they should save more, but they have a lot less money on the table to work with.

[SiennaGuy]

One more thing. Today, you can go out and buy a Chevy with built-in wi-fi. Yet, to most RV manufacturers, asking them to include wi-fi is almost like asking them to include a UFO with purchase.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by SiennaGuy

One more thing. Today, you can go out and buy a Chevy with built-in wi-fi. Yet, to most RV manufacturers, asking them to include wi-fi is almost like asking them to include a UFO with purchase.

LOL


Same with the cameras.

Even a Nissan Versa has 360 camera,
yet you do not see this in any of the production RVs.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by SiennaGuy

Millennials who did go to college are typically buried deep in debt that previous generations didn't have. The cost of a college education (especially tuition, even at state schools) has skyrocketed.

Yeah, but they have REALLY nice gymnasiums.

[bobojay]

The Winnebago "main office" move to the twin cities was dictated by the new CEO which is where he lives and worked prior to taking the reins. (Toro CEO)
His idea also was to get out of the small town, country atmosphere for new ideas and greater access to executive talent so to speak.

He or they have decided to get back to their roots, expand manufacturing outside of Iowa, and bring their main dealers into the info and decision making processes. Whether or not this will work remains to be seen.

One decision that baffles me is that they are not marketing the Paseo under the Touring Coach models umbrella. Touring Coach is a separate division with a separate dealer group. Currently if you are a Touring Coach dealer, that doesn't mean you will sell the Paseo???
Touring Coach is their class B moniker

[Billyboy46]

Interesting news today in Ontario, the Erwin Hymer Group have received a licence to test self-driving vehicles (along with two others) on Ontario roads.

1st automated vehicles begin tests on Ontario roads - Business - CBC News

At least they'll be testing how to make these things work in snow!