Winnebago 4x4 Concept Vehicle

[wincrasher]

Diesel appliances are not without complaint, as you'd find exploring some of the expedition sites.

[Davydd]

I got a little curious about putting propane in a diesel van considering there are options to heat and hot water available with tapping diesel and the proposed induction cooktop and compressor refrigerator. I would question putting in propane

In my two previous vans I had propane. Both came with the 9.8 gallon tank. So I used that for comparison which I found easily handled heat, hot water and cooking. Some vans come with bigger tanks but the action van would not have a generator.

LP Capacity Gallons: 9.8

Weight of tank and fittings: 50 lbs

Propane Weight per Gallon: 4.2 lbs.

9.8 gallons x .8 (80% limit for fill) x 4.2 lbs. = 33 lbs. total

Total weight of tank and propane: 83 lbs.

A 200ah 12v LiFeP04 GBS battery that I have weighs 55 lbs. which is about 27.5 lbs/100ah capacity.

Thus 83 lbs. of propane and tank is equivalent to 300ah of LiFeP04 batteries

Assuming a minimum 100ah house battery already then a B can easily have 400ah battery capacity with no weight change by eliminating propane. I know in an Advanced RV with the second alternator and diesel heat and hot water one could easily stay off grid indefinitely. The limit thus is food and water staying in one place.

[wincrasher]

All that is true.

But cost is a factor in this market segment I'm sure. The equipment for diesel fired heat and water heating is much more expensive than the Truma, as are additional lithium batteries and the charging equipment that goes with it.

Although, they are familiar with the Alde equipment, as it's used in the Era 70 C. Not sure what the space constraints are - I think it needs to reside above the floor, not under the van like the gear you have in your ARV.

I'm sure that is a big design discussion when you are engineering an "off-road" van. What can safely go underneath and how best to protect it. I certainly wouldn't be crazy about a big LP tank hanging underneath either.

[Davydd]

This is it for heating and hot water in an ARV. All outside the cabin. The upper module is the Espar diesel heat exchanger with glycol. The bottom module is the glycol to hot water heat exchanger. The heated glycol is nested with water lines, the water tank and exchanges glycol to air ducted in the baseboards of the cabinets. This is mounted within the frame near the driver door. I imagine one could further protect it with iron if desired or necessary but I doubt anyone is going to expect to treat a B like a jeep.



ARV also has a Rixen Comfort Zone glycol reservoir under the hood with an electric heater for use when plugged into shore power, but it would not be necessary if off-grid is the intention. This system sips about a cup per hour when in use for heating. The draw from the diesel tank is above the 1/4 full line so will not run you out of fuel.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

All that is true.

But cost is a factor in this market segment I'm sure. The equipment for diesel fired heat and water heating is much more expensive than the Truma, as are additional lithium batteries and the charging equipment that goes with it.

It is a small van. A Truma system or a Suburban hot water system takes away a lot of inside space. At least a suitcase worth.

There would be some cost offset eliminating the tank, lines, switches, exhaust, cutting and much more installation labor than additional lithium ion batteries. What that is I don't know but those 9.8 gallon tanks are not cheap. I think they push $500.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The upper module is the Espar diesel heat exchanger with glycol. The bottom module is the glycol to hot water heat exchanger.

Actually, the bottom module is the muffler for the Espar.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

All that is true.

But cost is a factor in this market segment I'm sure.

Yes. And, there is also the fact that the tank of propane contains 718,144 BTU vs 6,551 usable BTU for the 200Ah battery.

Depending on travel patterns, it might not matter for some, but for a lot of people it would.

[nebulight]

I'd love to see them make this van! This seems like a perfect rig. However as others have said, why not ditch propane all together and just go with a diesel heat system? Then do an underhood generator, 400amp lithium and tell me where to sign.

[Keyne]

I hope they make it too. If they decided to make it I wonder how long it takes to go from a prototype like this to an actual product? Anyone know how long the Travato took? With their capabilities hoping it could be months (6?) not years...

[eric1514]

How safe is having all that heating equipment hanging off the bottom of the van when you are parked offroad in the brush wrt forest fires?

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by Keyne

I hope they make it too. If they decided to make it I wonder how long it takes to go from a prototype like this to an actual product? Anyone know how long the Travato took? With their capabilities hoping it could be months (6?) not years...

Travato took longer because it was a whole new product category. You have to plan supply chain and production space. That took about a year & half. Plus the approval/decision making process to get going based on feedback from all the shows. They actually had to bring over a Ducato to build the prototye on (interestingly, they were required to crush that vehicle because it couldn't be sold in NA).

Adding a Sprinter product is alot less if you can fit it into existing production. Mostly the time to develop the concept vehicle. Largely this would be a parts bin model with a small number of new parts.

But they have no plans to build this believe me. It's solely to gauge feedback. They have no production space for this vehicle.

What they ARE planning to build is the Transit B product. They showed us the changes in the production line for it. Now we are just waiting on the big reveal at the RV shows.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by eric1514

How safe is having all that heating equipment hanging off the bottom of the van when you are parked offroad in the brush wrt forest fires?

No different than that internal combustion engine in the front and the exhaust pipe to the back.

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

But they have no plans to build this believe me. It's solely to gauge feedback...

Although it's worth noting the second to last question on Winnebago's survey form was 'Would you like to be notified when this vehicle becomes available?'

Of course that doesn't guarantee the 4x4 concept vehicle will get to production. But it certainly indicates a fairly high level of interest and product planning. And they did invest the time and effort to build a prototype and publicly present it at national trade shows. Last time they did that was the Travato prototype on the imported Ducato chassis.

But it will probably take some time. As Wincrasher noted the Travato took a year and a half. The Transit has taken a couple years from chassis introduction to apparent Winnebago production this fall. And Sprinter 4x4's are still limited production with factory orders requiring up to 11 months lead time; that may not improve much until Sprinter US production begins at the Charleston SC plant.

Overall I would say the signs appear rather positive. Winnebago seems quite aware that the adventure market is different than the traditional RV retirement market, and seems to be directing their efforts towards that target.

[BBQ]

Looks fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3NcK5Bnyck

[BBQ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LGJxDbIPnU#t=126.957

[GeorgeB]

What do you think of that bold statement?

...
Despite being the world leader in volume terms, the US motorhome market lags behind much of the rest of the western world in terms of product diversity and innovation. An example is the recent display of a Winnebago 4x4 Sprinter van conversion...
...
iMotorhome magazine, August 2016
https://issuu.com/imotorhome/docs/is...magazine_____2





!

IMO the most innovative camper in the last year to come from big manufacturers

The Winnebago concept 4x4 Sprinter camper on my Kampervan FB page

https://www.facebook.com/kampervanfu...07603536167060




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[nebulight]

Well the article is actually pretty true. That floorplan is VERY popular every where else in the world. The 59G was the first intro to that style of floor plan, but the 4x4 is more of a traditional "euro" style floorplan.

The US market usually has a couch that reclines to a bed that seems to be more popular with the older RVer. I think this makes sense as if you look at Roadtrek or Leisure Travel, those vans are 6 figures in the US. Where as a floorplan like the 4x4 concept is more attractive to younger people who don't mind jumping up into bed if they can store their gear inside the van. The "euro" type of floorplan seems to be more popular with the younger crowd (I still consider myself in that age range at 33) as the appeal for the RV is to travel and do more outdoors activities rather than to just park at an RV park. And in europe, a fully fitted van will run you around 50,000 euro, so much cheaper than a van in the US so younger people can afford to buy.

[Keyne]

I would literally buy this tomorrow at my local WGO if they would build it.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Keyne

I would literally buy this tomorrow at my local WGO if they would build it.

So would I....

WGO has 90% of the components they need to take their product line to the next level.

They have a great supplier base and are innovative. I wish they would acquire a company like Bruder X to learn how to extend their product lines to support adventure camping. As has been mentioned, WGO can always start with an affordable adventure-focused range and move upward if the market exists.

Off-grid is the future and WGO should be prepared to offer the suite of products (HVAC, Bathroom, and Power) to support those uses.

21st century WGO should be capable of producing a production-like version (refined) of what Sportsmobile offers to a mass audience and be profitable.

[Marley]

Originally Posted by Keyne

I would literally buy this tomorrow at my local WGO if they would build it.

I am also a candidate for something similar. Nothing so far I have seen has suited what I want - or at least, think i want.