Wingamm coming to the US market this fall

[rowiebowie]

I noticed in the last video a spec sheet at the rv show listed a $69,999 euro price (before options & shipping). At 1.17 dollar to euro, that would make the price $82K in dollars at the time the video was shot. That't quite a markup to get to the price range stated, but then, it's a seller's market.

Nice though. An example of bigger on the inside than the outside. Almost (but not quite) would make me accept a cassette toilet.

[mumkin]

I'd say his optimism of how popular the cassette system will become in the US suggests he doesn't really know the US market. Europe campgrounds are set up for a cassette system and the US is set up for a black tank system. The Hymer Aktiv was the first and many dealers wouldn't even carry them because of the cassette. There are now a couple other rigs that have it, but definitely not a major selling point here... the opposite in fact.

Too bad you didn't ask about the platform issue... the fact that there is no small cutaway Promaster available in the US.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by mumkin

I'd say his optimism of how popular the cassette system will become in the US suggests he doesn't really know the US market. Europe campgrounds are set up for a cassette system and the US is set up for a black tank system. The Hymer Aktiv was the first and many dealers wouldn't even carry them because of the cassette. There are now a couple other rigs that have it, but definitely not a major selling point here... the opposite in fact.

Too bad you didn't ask about the platform issue... the fact that there is no small cutaway Promaster available in the US.

And no compressor fridge.

[Snowy]

I think the reason they called the cassette "innovative" is because they know it is uncommon in the US market and they want to overcome that resistance with this marketing message.

It also appears the grey tank dump is right down beneath the rig rather than with a hose. Perhaps the European standard is a drive-over grate for dumping grey tanks but these do not exist here as far as i know.

I like the construction of this rig, but it will need to make some changes/additions to be competitive here, especially at $140k. And it might be difficult to make these changes as all their molds are designed to fit the Euro market and are impossible to change. They may need new molds for the US market.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Snowy

Perhaps the European standard is a drive-over grate for dumping grey tanks.

Correct.

From our Iceland trip:

IMG_8291.jpg

They will certainly have to address this and many other details.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Snowy

It also appears the grey tank dump is right down beneath the rig rather than with a hose. Perhaps the European standard is a drive-over grate for dumping grey tanks but these do not exist here as far as i know.

Perhaps that explains the - to us - bizarre choice that Hymer made with their first Sunlight that was only sold at Camping World. The kitchen sink drained directly onto the ground in their first iteration.

[eric1514]

It looks like they altered the track in the rear. Looks wider. I wonder if they would have had to do all the safety certification like crash testing.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

None of the videos demonstrated climbing into the bed once it's pulled down from the ceiling. I'd like to see how that works.

It appears you access the bed from the rear and it appears the bed has to be over 48” or maybe higher off the ground. I imagine you would have to stand on the rear seat to access it if not a ladder. I suspect there is a built in step system rather than a ladder similar to the 2005 Airstream Westfalia on a short Sprinter which had a similar concept. Once the bed is pulled down it eliminates the use of the RV for anything other than going to bed and accessing the bathroom. Exiting the van seems dicey when the bed is down. I would have to know more about how that is done.

They give a lot of attention to seating 6 people but I see only sleeping for 2. I mentioned in another thread a penchant for this in Europe. On my riverboat cruise from Budapest to Amsterdam I noted that just about every town on the rivers had waterfront campgrounds that were essentially parking lots without outside amenities such as fire pits and picnic tables or areas for camp chairs. I imagine more entertainment and visiting takes place inside RVs. This explains almost all European RVs have the obligatory two uncomfortable to me upright passenger seats. I think they kill a lot of space in a small RV.

Fresh water tank is 26.4 gallons and the grey tank is 18.5 gallons. This is acceptable and nearly equal to other short van offerings. Cassette toilet is less than 5 gallons. I can get almost 50 flushes on my marine upflow macerating toilet with a 25 gallon tank and can extend that if I choose to combine with my 26 gallon grey tank. The tanks are all insulated and heated so I imagine with the insulated shell it will make a good all weather RV.

I don’t see any mention of the house battery capability.

Air conditioning is mentioned as “Automatic air conditioning” whatever that means. Is it just chassis air conditioning?

At 7,716 lbs overall which is nearly the same as my short Sprinter ARV van it is capable of carrying any load you can put in it as there is not much space to load it up.

Fiberglas bodies can be good quality as this one appears to be. Innovative design features. I imagine it would be an attractive seller but then Airstream tried it with their 2005 Airstream Westfalia built on a short Sprinter body and only sold about 200 of them over 3 years despite heavily advertising them.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I imagine it would be an attractive seller but then Airstream tried it with their 2005 Airstream Westfalia built on a short Sprinter body and only sold about 200 of them over 3 years despite heavily advertising them.

Anyone who has ever driven a Westy will understand why. When we bought our Interstate, we had the choice of buying it or a Westy--both in stock and for exactly the same (mid 5-digit) price. We spent a day going back and forth between the two. We SO wanted to fall in love with the Westy, but they were so clumsy and top-heavy to drive that we just couldn't get over it. The goofy looks didn't help, either. I don't think the Wingamm will suffer from either of these two issues. Looks like a class act all around. But, the cassette toilet is a BIG issue. Not a show-stopper for us, but very close. I would probably retrofit a flush toilet, turning the existing gray tank into a combined gray/black tank.

We'll see about power and A/C... It has our attention.

[Urlauber]

I like the way the bed comes down, using the empty space in the center. Drawback is reduced head space (or taller vehicle). Nice layout.

Looks very RV though, not bad but nobody will mistake it for a regular van.

[Rocinante]

Yup. Cute, though clearly not a Class B. Too bad it's on a ProMaster. If they put it on a Ford Transit, I'd be more tempted.

[SissyBoyFloyd]

a fraction below 9'9" high, but I don't know if that includes A/C and other stuff on roof. I hope so. For my carport is 9'9" also. Only rv that I have ever found to park under it was the VW Rialta by Winnebago.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by SissyBoyFloyd

a fraction below 9'9" high, but I don't know if that includes A/C and other stuff on roof. I hope so. For my carport is 9'9" also. Only rv th

Roadtrek Express Van's, mine is 8'5" supposedly. MacDonald's is not a problem, good coffee too.

[mumkin]

Yup... my Roadtrek 170 was 8'9" including the AC. My RT SRT was 9'5" with the AC plus an inch after I added the Sumos.

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Just got email from US sales manager. Price here in the states is going to be $145,000. I told him that would be a hard sell at that price on a ProMaster chassis. If on a Transit fully loaded with lithium, maybe. He told me in another email that it doesn't come with A/C, Satellite, wifi, or other extras. Some will be offered at extra cost of course. Wow, something seems off here? Think I will go with a new EKKo maybe for that price range.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by SissyBoyFloyd

Just got email from US sales manager. Price here in the states is going to be $145,000. I told him that would be a hard sell at that price on a ProMaster chassis. If on a Transit fully loaded with lithium, maybe. He told me in another email that it doesn't come with A/C, Satellite, wifi, or other extras. Some will be offered at extra cost of course. Wow, something seems off here? Think I will go with a new EKKo maybe for that price range.

But we still don't have the answer whether it is on the European Ducato or American Promaster. No AC will be a killer in the US market... especially at that price.

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I believe he told me it would be a ProMaster. That makes sense to me since it is already known and U.S approved. I could be wrong though, at my age my memory is not 100%.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by SissyBoyFloyd

I believe he told me it would be a ProMaster. That makes sense to me since it is already known and U.S approved. I could be wrong though, at my age my memory is not 100%.

The problem is that the US Promaster 118wb is only 16'3" long (I have one), not the over 17' that they claim. For 17' they have to use the longer wheelbase.

Not to mention that it feels like false advertising to show the updated Ducato front end that we can't get over here... sadly.

[MsNomer]

'22 PM has an updated front end. It appears to be 118” WB with humongous rear overhang. Maybe that’s for the 40’ turning radius—as tight as my Corolla.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

'22 PM has an updated front end. It appears to be 118” WB with humongous rear overhang. Maybe that’s for the 40’ turning radius—as tight as my Corolla.

I just looked at the 2022 PM brochure and it is the same front end as my 2021... basically the same old front end... basically the same as the 2015.