Why 4x4 or AWD in Class Bs?

[MsNomer]

“ I’ve seen positive feedback on the 3 inch Promaster lift. But that could be excitement from some of the early adopters.”

They are now crying about their busted CV joints.

[Knit]

The reason I switched from a Roadtrek Sprinter to Revel 4x4 Sprinter can be summed up in one word: mobility.

I can and do go all sorts of places off the beaten track where the 4x4 and the ground clearance (and no stupid fiberglass parts) is very useful. Done thousands of miles on unpaved roads on public lands that we have out here in the glorious west. For every one night spent in a formal campground I spend probably 5 nights dispersed camping.

So my use case is different that many of the posters here. Is a 4x4 Sprinter an off-road equipped Jeep? Of course not. But it is very capable in many off-road situations. Do all Revel owners use it the way I do? Of course not. And that’s fine. To each their own RV style.

So Davydd, I ask you why, why are you so hung up on people that want a different RV than your apparently perfect ARV or that want to use it differently?

[jakegw2]

Why would anyone lift a Promaster? The fixed rear axle that is only about 6" from the ground can't be raised except with larger wheels and is by far the most limiting component.

[Davydd]

“So Davydd, I ask you why, why are you so hung up on people that want a different RV than your apparently perfect ARV or that want to use it differently?”

Curiosity. I’m not hung up. I think I answered your question in my opening comments prolog. It made me ask because just about every short Sprinter I saw at Yellowstone NP was a 4x4 and there where many, BTW, and no place you could go where you would need a 4x4 in the park. I kind of marveled so many gathering there in September. I counted 10 driving down from Bozeman on the highway coming north out of the park.

Possibly the west has more opportunities than my area in the Midwest but I have dispersed camped in the west and in my 17 years of Class B RVing I’ve never encountered a place where I would need a 4x4 including Sedona and Quartzsite but a shorter wheel base would have been desirable. The only place may have been beaches but then I’ve heard people getting stuck with 4x4s. I haven’t in the times I’ve ventured onto a beach. If it is a traveled road access, such as forest roads in the Midwest I haven’t had a need for 4x4 but I have needed lifts which I have now. I’ve camped in the snow with 3 different 2WD Sprinters successively without incident. Will do so next month with my 4th. I have traveled to Alaska and back and never encountered the need for a 4x4 and traveled as far as you could go in Denali NP and Traveled the On Top of the World gravel road from Chicken, Alaska to Dawson City, Yukon. I used to live where I had a 12% sloped up to the road 300 ft. driveway in Minnesota and successively negotiated it. So, I am not exactly a spring chicken on the subject.

4x4s are about a $7,000 factory option in a Sprinter. I don’t see where that pays for itself other than vanity and maybe a one chance encounter on the come. If you need a 4x4 I guess you don’t mind contents and $150,000+ interior improvements getting tossed around. As is, a 4x4 is probably not needed by most that buy a Winnebago Revel but Winnebago doesn’t give you an option for the Revel even in their home state of very flat Iowa. Most Sprinter upfitters with short Sprinters have made a marketing reputation with 4x4s including ARV. Most all Promaster owners have successively traveled without a 4x4 option. Transit owners will get an AWD option and I admit they will have better traction in the snow as we have had with Subaru cars in Minnesota for over 20 years.

I did get the factory 2” lifts from my experience in bottoming out with a 24 ft. extended body Sprinter and also glad I did for the side nerf bar additions in my short Sprinter where I probably would not bottom out but the nerf bars now have an 8.5” clearance with less chance of nicking curbs which are designed mostly of 6” high.

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by jrobe

The campground Winnebago Revel crowd are mostly the off-road wannabes that will rarely see anything except blacktop. The true off-roaders are more like the Quigley true 4 wheel drive modified Class B's like some of the Sportsmobiles you see go past covered in mud out in Colorado, Utah, etc.. It wouldn't be my thing with an expensive van.

As I heard the owner of Sportmobile say one time.. they are for people who want to live out of their vans, not in them. That said, a well-built van that is not overloaded with unnecessary "enhancements" and has at least a limited slip differential will take you to some very remote campsites. And in some cases, it's the driver that makes things possible, not the vehicle.

[rogerstg]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Many Sprinter van Class Bs have 4x4 chassis. Why?

I suspect it's for peace of mind mostly and many folks don't realize how much additional traction that 3+ extra tons provides over cars.

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by Knit

I can and do go all sorts of places off the beaten track where the 4x4 and the ground clearance (and no stupid fiberglass parts) is very useful. Done thousands of miles on unpaved roads on public lands that we have out here in the glorious west.

I hear 'ya. Nearly every time I go camping in the north & west, I find forest service and BLM roads that I'd head down if I had higher clearance and 4WD.

Even National Parks have high-clearance 4WD roads (Capitol Reef, Big Bend, Canyonlands, etc.)

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by @Michael

I hear 'ya. Nearly every time I go camping in the north & west, I find forest service and BLM roads that I'd head down if I had higher clearance and 4WD.

Even National Parks have high-clearance 4WD roads (Capitol Reef, Big Bend, Canyonlands, etc.)

Exactly, we often drive on forestry roads, some heavily rutted. If wet, many are not accessible without 4X4 but when dry having practically the factory road clearance helps a lot. Factory Sprinter without fiberglass side skirts have 12” rocker panels road clearance. My water heater is 1.5” lower so I pay attention but never had issues.

[Punkinhead]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Possibly the west has more opportunities than my area in the Midwest but I have dispersed camped in the west and in my 17 years of Class B RVing I’ve never encountered a place where I would need a 4x4 including Sedona and Quartzsite but a shorter wheel base would have been desirable.

If you never go places that require 4x4 then you're unlikely to encounter a 4x4 Class B in a place that requires 4x4.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Punkinhead

If you never go places that require 4x4 then you're unlikely to encounter a 4x4 Class B in a place that requires 4x4.

I have been to 49 states including Alaska, all the Canadian provinces and the Yukon Territory in a Class B. Didn’t I mention Sedona, one of the 4x4 playgrounds, all the National Parks you can get to in Class B in North America over 17 years and 235,000 miles and counting. I did recently buy a 2WD short Sprinter as I mentioned with 2” lifts that can probably get me anywhere down roads and trails with rocks and potholes. I dry camp or boon dock more than staying in a campground. I’ve dispersed camped in Quartzsite numerous times. I live in snow country and winter camp. You can join me on the Upper Peninsula in Michigan at Tahquamenon Falls next month in probably 2 feet of snow by then.

I’m on my 4th Class B RV. Over the years I have tried to adhere to my 95% rule. I don’t need it less than 5% I don’t need it. I wrecked my nerf bars on my last RV on a curb so deemed I needed the lifts this time. There are curbs everywhere with pavement settlement.

I think I have observed many faux Class B wannabe 4x4 travelers that probably have never been on a road needing a 4x4.

Do you have a 4x4 Class B and what percentage of travel do you need it?

[Punkinhead]

What if you're on South Padre Island and want to venture out on the beach?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Punkinhead

What if you're on South Padre Island and want to venture out on the beach?

I would but my wife is always with me and she adamantly won’t let me. South Padre Island is about 12 miles of paved road, 6 in the city and then 6 to a dead end of and island that extends way far north. On the 6 mile north portion is barren sand dunes with a few county access points where you can access and drive on the beach. If you stick to the well worn path just about any vehicle can drive on it. In our short time here and two ventures north to the end of the road I saw two 4x4 Sprinters out on the beach. I wish to say I saw a Promaster so I could say, “Aha!”.

I made the decision not to go with 4x4 because it added about 300 lbs. to the van which reduced 300 lbs. of weight I could carry as I wanted to stay at a 2500 chassis. So, I am keeping to my 95% rule or 5% rule. If I don’t need it at least 5% of the time I don’t need it. No beaches in Minnesota to drive on. I long ago thought it folly drive off unimproved roads other than Quartzsite like BLM lands which have plenty of places to drive.

[JakeyLee]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I have been to 49 states including Alaska, all the Canadian provinces and the Yukon Territory in a Class B. Didn’t I mention Sedona, one of the 4x4 playgrounds, all the National Parks you can get to in Class B in North America over 17 years and 235,000 miles and counting. I did recently buy a 2WD short Sprinter as I mentioned with 2” lifts that can probably get me anywhere down roads and trails with rocks and potholes. I dry camp or boon dock more than staying in a campground. I’ve dispersed camped in Quartzsite numerous times. I live in snow country and winter camp. You can join me on the Upper Peninsula in Michigan at Tahquamenon Falls next month in probably 2 feet of snow by then.

I’m on my 4th Class B RV. Over the years I have tried to adhere to my 95% rule. I don’t need it less than 5% I don’t need it. I wrecked my nerf bars on my last RV on a curb so deemed I needed the lifts this time. There are curbs everywhere with pavement settlement.

I think I have observed many faux Class B wannabe 4x4 travelers that probably have never been on a road needing a 4x4.

Do you have a 4x4 Class B and what percentage of travel do you need it?

This is a silly thread, and almost smells like buyers remorse. Most lift kits, with included suspension are going to run over $3,000 w/labor. So for me, the additional 7k for the opted 4x4 is a no brainer. But I use my van in a different fashion than many.

With all due respect, your argument can’t hinge on some 5% formula that seems to work for you. Because frankly, it doesn’t work for me. I’ve got lots of stuff in life that don’t meet such a threshold. Heck, the vast majority of safety features in my vehicles don’t meet that threshold. The places you mention in Arizona happen to be in my backyard. This past summer alone (monsoon season ), I’ve assisted pulling out numerous 2 wheel drive sprinters and Promasters. Why?? Because folks enter these drivable dirt roads when it’s dry and beautiful. Then some overnight rain leaves them a mess. Albeit , it’s mostly the longer wheel base Sprinters, but Sprinters none the less .

It seems to me you could make these arguments about 4 wheel drive vehicles in general . So why DID you buy your previous 4x4, Davy D?? Seems like it could have NEVER met your 5% rule.. and if it did, go ahead and apply that to why many of us have them in our vans. Stay safe and warm out there .

[Davydd]

I’ve never had a 4x4 Sprinter.

You rant and only make a case of monsoon rains in the summer in the Southwest. I’d never be dumb enough to travel in the Southwest in the summer. So when and where do you need 4x4 Jakeylee?

[Punkinhead]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I made the decision not to go with 4x4 because it added about 300 lbs. to the van which reduced 300 lbs. of weight I could carry as I wanted to stay at a 2500 chassis. So, I am keeping to my 95% rule or 5% rule. If I don’t need it at least 5% of the time I don’t need it.

You absolutely made the right choice for you. You've limited where you can go because other considerations take priority. Every choice in a B van is a trade-off, including 4x4 or AWD vs. 2WD. Other people have other priorities. The fact that you chose differently doesn't make their choices stupid.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

South Padre Island is about 12 miles of paved road, 6 in the city and then 6 to a dead end of and island that extends way far north. On the 6 mile north portion is barren sand dunes with a few county access points where you can access and drive on the beach.

How is Elon's science experiment coming along down there?

[booster]

We also would chose not to have 4 wheel drive for some of the same reasons.


Weight certainly is an issue if you want to stay with single rear wheels like I do. Singles actually give better traction in most tough conditions anyway.


Clearance is a big issue with any RV do to weight and long wheelbase. We have passed on going on roads because of clearance but not because of lack of traction. Lifting higher than we have at 2" is not something we want do to less convenient in and out of the van in the campsite and in handling issues from being higher.



We have an autolocking rear axle so we have just as many driving wheels as most 4 wheel drives as most don't have lockers. The only exception is if they have traction control that applies the spinning wheel brake and not just power reduction traction control.


We have been on Forest Service roads without issue quite few times. We are more likely to avoid long stretches of gravel roads because of the incessant pounding it does on the RV parts of the van than anything else.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

How is Elon's science experiment coming along down there?

I haven’t watched any over the air TV news or read a daily paper for two weeks so don’t know what Elon is up to. Is he shooting off a rocket in Texas to crash into the moon?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I haven’t watched any over the air TV news or read a daily paper for two weeks so don’t know what Elon is up to. Is he shooting off a rocket in Texas to crash into the moon?

I was just wondering if you drove down to Boca Chica. You can't get into the SpaceX launch site, but you can drive right by it, and it apparently is quite a sight these days. Kind of like visiting Cape Canaveral in 1957.

I plan to swing down there some trip just to see it before it is too late.

The thing that is hitting the moon was launched years ago. Space junk.

[JakeyLee]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I’ve never had a 4x4 Sprinter.

You rant and only make a case of monsoon rains in the summer in the Southwest. I’d never be dumb enough to travel in the Southwest in the summer. So when and where do you need 4x4 Jakeylee?

Davydd, I was referring to this earlier post of yours:
“I know 4WD is better in the snow and rain as we have had Subarus for several years and my personal toy car is a 2003 Subaru Baja pickup. “

Maybe that’s the same reason many of us prefer 4wd. I agree with you , “4WD is better in snow and rain”… among other conditions. Heck, you “even confessed that you’d considered it” weight restrictions … yadda yadda…. It’s all good, you made conscious decisions based on many factors . This is often the case with a heavy build-out. It works for you, and that’s all that matters.

As for your question, I’m disappointed at your indirect ad hominem attack. You’d “never be dumb enough”. Well apparently I am. I live in the southwest. Week long trips from the valley are only 90 mins away to some amazing high elevation mountains for me. I often boon dock during cool summer nights in northern AZ. Sometimes weather can be a factor . In the winters I’m often faced with high elevation snow . I travel the Sierra often during the winter months. I’ve done passes through Donner Summit and Hwy 50 during blizzard conditions.. without having to stop to put on chains.

I believe we are starting to see a lot of overland 4WD enthusiasts that are now entering the class b space. Many of the folks I meet were never RV enthusiasts. It’s an interesting time to watch this segment grow. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the industry reaction and accommodation of technology and aftermarket.
-Jakey