Who services your Mercedes Sprinter?

[dhectorg]

I don't currently own a Sprinter, but I am planning to buy one and I will service it myself. I'm not a mechanic nor do I have any training in that area, but I have always serviced all of my own vehicles (2 of them have been diesels) and I've not had any issues. In fact, I trust myself to do it right more than I do any dealership or professional mechanic. Oil changes are easy and doing them yourself can save a lot of money.

[peteco]

Every time the oil change topic comes up at work or with friends every person has had a problem at some point in their lives with an oil change done at a dealer, lube shop, repair facility etc. As long as I am able I will change my own oil and do every repair I am comfortable doing. Other than requiring a lot of oil, isn't the Sprinter oil change about the same as on a gas engine?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by peteco

Other than requiring a lot of oil, isn't the Sprinter oil change about the same as on a gas engine?

Yes. In fact it is one of the easiest vehicles upon which to perform an oil change, because access is good. Fuel filters are a bit fiddly, though.

Sprinters do take a lot of oil, but the also have long OCIs, so it balances out. All that oil is probably one of the things that makes the long OCIs safe.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yes. In fact it is one of the easiest vehicles upon which to perform an oil change, because access is good. Fuel filters are a bit fiddly, though.

Sprinters do take a lot of oil, but the also have long OCIs, so it balances out. All that oil is probably one of the things that makes the long OCIs safe.

Avanti, I'm wondering if you're aware of some reported problems with the "timing chains" on these 2.1 engines; stretching or chain rattle ?

If the oil is not extremely clean, then, it would just exacerbate this problem of premature wear, I think.

See this link;

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/ar...p/t-55592.html

Replaced by the OM654 with new materials

https://idpartsblog.com/2017/09/15/m...se-the-om-654/

Something I found online;

A timing chain should last for the life of the engine!
That stated, the general consensus of technical opinion is that infrequent oil changes hasten the wear of the links.
Add this to diesel engines and carbon suspended in the oil and you get a hostile mix for rapid chain wear and low life.

SO... what do you think about all this? I don't know about longer intervals, still very doubtful.

[booster]

The only thing that really jumps out to me is the aluminum block iron pistons. They don't say what they are doing with the block for cylinder wear issues, so hard to tell what is going on for sure. Probably no steel liners as that would mess up the expansion theories.


There have been numerous aluminum, unlinered, block engines made over the years and AFAIK, none were very successful. You can be one chunk of broken off carbon away from scoring up a cylinder in many cases.


I don't know about the 2.1 MB timing chains being an issue, as it there are so few of them that show up on places like Craigslist there is no reliable sample size, but as I mentioned earlier, there does seem to be a growing number of timing chain failures across the board.


I would certainly think contaminated oil would add to chain wear, as it is a metal on metal sliding surface type device, but I also think the lack of antiscuffing additives in the oil could be contributing. MB would likely have done failure analysis of some failed chain assemblies, and they would likely be able to tell which type of failure and wear they were dealing with. All the recent changes in oil specifications for MB could very easily be related to issues like timing chain failures.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by booster

The only thing that really jumps out to me is the aluminum block iron pistons. They don't say what they are doing with the block for cylinder wear issues, so hard to tell what is going on for sure. Probably no steel liners as that would mess up the expansion theories.


There have been numerous aluminum, unlinered, block engines made over the years and AFAIK, none were very successful. You can be one chunk of broken off carbon away from scoring up a cylinder in many cases.


I don't know about the 2.1 MB timing chains being an issue, as it there are so few of them that show up on places like Craigslist there is no reliable sample size, but as I mentioned earlier, there does seem to be a growing number of timing chain failures across the board.


I would certainly think contaminated oil would add to chain wear, as it is a metal on metal sliding surface type device, but I also think the lack of antiscuffing additives in the oil could be contributing. MB would likely have done failure analysis of some failed chain assemblies, and they would likely be able to tell which type of failure and wear they were dealing with. All the recent changes in oil specifications for MB could very easily be related to issues like timing chain failures.

I'm in my late 60s.... remember the muscle cars of the 60s and 70s......gas guzzling machines....you didn't hear about a lot of timing chain failures...

There's a GREAT DEBATE about timing chains and timing belt.......

A good argument for timing belts is ..."you actually KNOW when they need to be changed", there's a scheduled time for this and they are quiet..... usually easier to access..

I used to tell people..."when you need a new timing chain" ...you probably need a new car...
It's usually a lot more complicated and expensive... Many times, the entire engine has to be opened up.... more complicated parts etc....


SO.... while i appreciate that the Mercedes Benz Sprinter with the 3 litre V6 turbo diesel probably spins less than the FOUR cylinder it still has a timing chain....

I'm very happy to have the larger engine...it's almost 30 percent larger than the 2.1 .... better balanced with the larger engine and 5 speed transmission...

The OM642 turbo diesel is very much still a current Mercedes Benz engine....
Can the timing chain wear? Of course.... but, it's not spinning as fast as the smaller powerplants.....

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Avanti, I'm wondering if you're aware of some reported problems with the "timing chains" on these 2.1 engines; stretching or chain rattle ?

If the oil is not extremely clean, then, it would just exacerbate this problem of premature wear, I think.

See this link;

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/ar...p/t-55592.html

Replaced by the OM654 with new materials

https://idpartsblog.com/2017/09/15/m...se-the-om-654/

Something I found online;

A timing chain should last for the life of the engine!
That stated, the general consensus of technical opinion is that infrequent oil changes hasten the wear of the links.
Add this to diesel engines and carbon suspended in the oil and you get a hostile mix for rapid chain wear and low life.

SO... what do you think about all this? I don't know about longer intervals, still very doubtful.

Personally, I always do oil changes early. If the manufacturer calls for 10,000 miles, I do 7500. Same with drive-line fluids (transmission, differential, etc) as well as fuel filter changes, etc. I do all scheduled maint early. Many people will say I'm wasting my money, but the peace of mind I get is worth the cost. That said, I am convinced it actually does significantly postpone wear and keeps my vehicles running like new for life.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

Personally, I always do oil changes early. If the manufacturer calls for 10,000 miles, I do 7500. Same with drive-line fluids (transmission, differential, etc) as well as fuel filter changes, etc. I do all scheduled maint early. Many people will say I'm wasting my money, but the peace of mind I get is worth the cost. That said, I am convinced it actually does significantly postpone wear and keeps my vehicles running like new for life.

I've done that many times.... usually around 90 percent of the miles.....WHY?

Sometimes for convenience, other times it's because I strongly believe that oil changes should be done once per year no matter what.... Many people will disagree...

It's just oil...but it's the life blood of your engine... sludge is a real thing....

And because it's an engine with a timing chain....it's very important....

My old 1995 Honda Accord went mostly trouble free for 150,000 miles....no engine or transmission problems with regular maintenance and oil changes...had the car for 19 years.. purchased it brand new in 1996...

You can't "over service" your vehicle..... I've known people who religiously do this and go 300,000 miles..or more on regular cars.....

The Sprinter diesel base engine probably could easily go 500,000 .... that doesn't mean you won't have other things to go wrong...

Good luck...I noticed that you service your own vehicles??? Good for you..

I have my professional mechanic do the service on my vehicles....
Everything is easy when you know what to do....

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

I don't know about the 2.1 MB timing chains being an issue, as it there are so few of them that show up on places like Craigslist there is no reliable sample size, but as I mentioned earlier, there does seem to be a growing number of timing chain failures across the board.


I would certainly think contaminated oil would add to chain wear, as it is a metal on metal sliding surface type device, but I also think the lack of antiscuffing additives in the oil could be contributing. MB would likely have done failure analysis of some failed chain assemblies, and they would likely be able to tell which type of failure and wear they were dealing with. All the recent changes in oil specifications for MB could very easily be related to issues like timing chain failures.

For the current 6.0L, didn't Chevy eliminate timing chain replacement entirely from their high mileage maintenance schedule?

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

For the current 6.0L, didn't Chevy eliminate timing chain replacement entirely from their high mileage maintenance schedule?

It could be a number of reasons, including wanting to be "better" than timing belts, and to lessen the cost of the periodic services as lots of people look at those costs when deciding what to buy. Of course lots of engines with chains say no chain replacement needed for the life of the engine, but then the do need replacing.



Maybe they have come up with a better design that can handle low additive and high mileage oil.



They likely have lots of history on failure rates, and failure cause and damage generated. If the chains just start getting noisy or rubbing on something, there would be enough warning to take it out of the preventative designation. Once the mean time between failures gets much over 100K miles, I would expect them not to be considered a maintenance item.


It is also possible that they have tweaked the cam position sensors to be precise enough to indirectly measure chain stretch or looseness, so you would an MIL warning about a failing chain.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by booster

It could be a number of reasons, including wanting to be "better" than timing belts, and to lessen the cost of the periodic services as lots of people look at those costs when deciding what to buy. Of course lots of engines with chains say no chain replacement needed for the life of the engine, but then the do need replacing.

Maybe they have come up with a better design that can handle low additive and high mileage oil.

They likely have lots of history on failure rates, and failure cause and damage generated. If the chains just start getting noisy or rubbing on something, there would be enough warning to take it out of the preventative designation. Once the mean time between failures gets much over 100K miles, I would expect them not to be considered a maintenance item.

It is also possible that they have tweaked the cam position sensors to be precise enough to indirectly measure chain stretch or looseness, so you would an MIL warning about a failing chain.

Here's some information for you...my 2010 Subaru Outback Limited with the 2.5 FOUR...has a timing belt.. it's maintenance interval is 9 years or 105,000 miles....

Because of age rather than mileage..I recently had the timing belt, tensioner bearings, water pump thermostat and radiator service...it's a maintenance issue.....

However, changing all this is less expensive than opening up the engine for a timing chain.....a lot bigger and MORE expensive job..

As I have said before.. there's a trade off ... maintenance or repairs... I hope to God that I never have to have a timing chain on my Sprinter...I could only imagine how expensive that would be..., again.... these are supposed to be lifetime parts....whoose lifetime???

Now that I'm in my 60s...I always wonder about this question.... companies lifetime, your own lifetime or the products lifetime??? Generally, now I never pay extra for a lifetime guarantee... means nothing...... only if you are in your early 20s....

Do you know what I mean?? Keep your engine oil changes frequent.

[booster]

I haven't had to do a timing chain replacement in the vehicle for a long, long, time, but it they are still built similarly to the old rear drive V8, it is really not all that big of a job.


Pull the shroud, fan and other front accessories, water pump, damper and remove timing cover, being careful to cut the pan gasket at the cover so you don't have to pull the pan. Replace the chain and check timing marks and put it back together.


I have heard many say that with a lot of the Subarus, you might as well put in head gaskets at the 100K service, as very many of them fail shortly after that mileage, and from what I see on Craig's list about Subarus with new head gaskets, I think they may be correct.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by booster

I haven't had to do a timing chain replacement in the vehicle for a long, long, time, but it they are still built similarly to the old rear drive V8, it is really not all that big of a job.


Pull the shroud, fan and other front accessories, water pump, damper and remove timing cover, being careful to cut the pan gasket at the cover so you don't have to pull the pan. Replace the chain and check timing marks and put it back together.


I have heard many say that with a lot of the Subarus, you might as well put in head gaskets at the 100K service, as very many of them fail shortly after that mileage, and from what I see on Craig's list about Subarus with new head gaskets, I think they may be correct.

Booster,

You're correct for "older Subaru's"... by 2010 ... Subaru re-engineered the heads and this is pretty much of a dead issue now.. Sure, it can and does happen.. overheating is a real problem on any car, but, the "Boxer" engine is really terrible for this and in order to do a dual head job in the car they normally take the engine out.

Which is WHY.... I had the water pump, thermostat and radiator coolant flushed and changed. Subaru has this "super coolant" ...yes, that's what they call it and it's supposed to last the full 105,000 miles.

Like I said... I'm very "pro-active" about my maintenance and if there's a lot of time involved... I'm going to follow that instead of miles.

On the timing chains... keeping your oil changed at the more frequent intervals and I think 10,000 miles is entirely reasonable for the Sprinter since it has more than 13 quarts of synthetic oil is fine.

I know that others will follow the "increased" interval of 15,000 and then 20,000 miles. If there's that much "documented evidence" of that for making it go "twice the distance"... I'd sure like to read the article...

Where is it?? Show it to me ...

Skeptical.. yes. My personal mechanic thinks 8,000 to 10,000 miles is about the longest interval... and he's seen the MB information as well . He's
been my personal mechanic for over 20 years and has worked at dealerships before opening up his own garage. I'm going to absolutely follow not only the owner's manual, but, his personal advice as well.

He's the one who told me that keeping the oil clean and free of debris is the best defense against timing chain wear... of course the chain can stretch.
I am very careful about not racing my engines... I'm conservative.. that way... look ... I had many cars in my 20s.. I know what damage can be done by being too enthusiastic.

[Monica998]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

How many of you bring your Sprinter to Mercedes or an independent garage you trust? What's your experience?

What service interval? Mine is recommended once per year or every 10,000 miles for a regular oil change and every 20,000 miles in addition, I have the water filter and fuel filter and all the necessary stuff that the owner's manual requires.

Do you get your transmission serviced every 20,000 miles.. Mercedes Benz told me that was very desirable. Judging by the excessive curb weight of these vehicles, I'm willing to spend some extra money on maintaining the transmission fluid and filter changes.

Finally, approximately what do you pay for the following;

Service A- Oil change... approximately $150- $200
Service B- Oil change, fuel, and water filters plus transmission service--$825

Thank goodness the $825 service is only once EVERY 20,000 miles.

The Mercedes Benz Sprinter is a very expensive vehicle to maintain, no question.

Fortunately I have a personal mechanic I can absolutely trust, even more than the Mercedes Benz dealership.

How many of you actually do your own vehicle work? Maybe you're lucky enough to know exactly what to do, if so, congratulations.

Newer vehicles especially like my 2011 Sprinter 3500 with the 3.0 turbo diesel is a very complicated engine...

I just came across one question about the MB sprinter 3 or 5 year service packages. For$1700/3 yr or $3000/5yr CAD respectively.

[engnrsrule]

I have found a mechanic that specializes in fleet vehicles and has a small shop that is also tall enough to accommodate sprinters. I have been very happy with basic engine and brake service, statutory inspections, etc. I get oil changes at the dealer because they are prepaid and if I need one on a trip I can go to any dealership.

I had a turbo resonator issue 2 years ago and the dealership was very reasonable.