Wheel/Tire/Suspension Upgrade for our 2014 Roadtrek 190P

[Buc22]

Originally Posted by angelmroman

I did Bilstein Shocks, Sumos and Moog 81004 Coils in Front. Bilsteins and Sumos in the rear. The Moogs raised the Nose 4”. The Sumos raised the rear 1 1/2”. KO2s added an additional 1/2” all around. Like Booster, I went with 265/75R16E. Able to run lower pressures, while safely supporting the weight. Running 40/70 PSI. HUGE improvement over stock. Very pleased with results .

What a beautiful rig you have! Love the color

[Buc22]

Originally Posted by jamesv999

Update on Wheel/Tire/Suspension Upgrade for our 2014 Roadtrek 190P

Posting to www.classbforum.com, CyberRally, and Facebook

Base vehicle: 2014 Chevy Express 3500 LT Extended Cargo Van, 2WD, 26580 miles
- Original Roadtrek/AR wheels: 16x7, offset -6mm, bolt pattern 8x165.10
- Original tires: Bridgestone V-Steel RIB 265, LT245/75R16/E, 120/116S

Why upgrade?
- We wanted to improve the handling and increase the ground clearance.
- The original tires were nearly 7 years old so due to be replaced.
- The original Roadtrek/AR aluminum wheels were discolored and unappealing.
- We had previously upgraded to Bilstein shocks, which helped, but not enough.

After talking with many people and reading through many more threads on Facebook, CyberRally and www.classbforum.com, it becomes clear there are numerous suspension upgrade options to consider, including:
1. Shock replacements (Bilstein)
2. Rear air lift systems (Air Lift 5000)
3. Front coil spring replacements (Moog, TufTruck, SuperCoil, Bill Erb)
4. Bump stop replacements (SumoSprings)
5. Leaf spring upgrades (SuperSprings, Bill Erb)
6. Steering stabilizers (RoadMaster)
7. Lift kits (Weldtec Designs, Boulder Offroad, Supreme Suspensions)

I learned that one way to judge how low your Roadtrek is riding is to measure from the ground to the top of each wheel well at the center of the wheel. Assuming you have stock tires and wheels, 35.5” is near the upper limit of the spec for this vehicle. Going higher may be problematic, although several people have reportedly done so without issues. Ours were measuring 33.5” all around so we were hoping to gain about 2”.

Several people have reported success with above options #1-2-3 (Bilsteins, Air Lift, New Coils). However, we decided to go with options #1-4-7 (Bilsteins, SumoSprings, Lift Kit), in part because I liked the idea of using SumoSprings versus air springs, and in part because I wanted to go with a “supported” solution and could not find a coil vendor who would support bringing up the front of this vehicle by the desired amount (Moog and TufTruck told me they do not have supported replacement coils for this vehicle. SuperSprings has one, but only for the heavier diesel engine version of this van. Bill Erb at Valley Spring Works will reportedly make custom springs, but people have reported mixed results with them).

There seems to be widespread agreement that Bilsteins are a big improvement over the OEM shocks, and I also found many people weighing in with support for SumoSprings. The rear bump stops that come stock on this vehicle are ineffective. Replacing them with SumoSprings brought the rear up to 35.5” as desired, and greatly improved the vehicle handling. SumoSprings in front did not change the vehicle height, but adding the Supreme Suspensions 2” front lift kit (aluminum spacers that go over the coil springs) brought the front measurement up to 35.5” as desired.

I wanted to go with MotoMetal wheels, however they recommend a 17” wheel for this vehicle. I was concerned that going bigger might create clearance issues so talked with my local Chevy dealer who recommended going to a lower profile tire in order to maintain close to the same 30.5” outside diameter as the original tires. This also meant the speedometer and odometer would not require recalibration. I was mildly concerned about the wheel offset changing from -6mm to 0mm, but it ended up not being a problem (note: the steel wheels that come standard on this vehicle are +28mm offset, so the MotoMetal wheels are actually closer to the OEM spec).

As for tires, user recommendations are all over the place. I wanted to go with an All-Terrain tire because we do a lot of boondocking on dirt and gravel roads. My local tire dealer recommended the BF Goodrich KO2, and their reviews are excellent so I decided to give them a try. Changing from LT245/75R16 to LT245/70R17 increased the overall tire diameter by a mere 1mm (0.04”), but it also decreased the upper load index slightly, from 120 (3086 lbs/tire) to 119 (2998 lbs/tire), which should not be a problem given that our fully loaded weights are 4120 lbs. on the front axle and 4780 lbs. on the rear axle.

We could not be more pleased with the resulting look and, more importantly, performance of the new setup. We just got back from a 7-day road trip in Northern California where we put her to the test. Handling was off the charts better and, surprisingly, the noise level inside the RV is much quieter than before.

The specific parts used in our upgrade:
- Bilstein shocks (24-187435 front, 24-221948 rear)
- SuperSprings SumoSprings (black SSF-204-47 front, yellow SSR-205-54 rear)
- Supreme Suspensions 2” Front Lift Kit (A0731)
- MotoMetal wheels (MO97078080300, 17x8, gloss black machined)
- BF Goodrich tires (All Terrain T/A KO2, LT245/70R17/E, 119/116S)
- Low priced tire for original steel wheel / continental spare tire kit (LT245/75R16/E)

I attempted to get input from all of the above vendors before purchasing their products. Shout out to Bilstein, SuperSprings, Supreme Suspensions and BF Goodrich for their outstanding responsiveness and customer service. MotoMetal on the other hand did not respond to multiple phone calls or online inquiries, but I do like their wheels. Finally, huge thanks to all those who posted helpful information on the above mentioned Roadtrek user forums!

Real beauty you have there! Being older I never have like black rims but your rims looks so good on a silver van. I have to consider some dark rims for my 2015 brownstone metallic.

[Buc22]

Excellent read on this thread! I am currently pondering whether or not to take the next step on 2015 after installing Bilstein all around and a Hellwig rear sway bar. Also seriously looking into Boosters advice to consider getting back to stock offset rims. So I know ride quality, stiffness, and handling is subjective, but can you anyone give me input how these improvements has affected overall ride of RV?

Thank You

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Buc22

Excellent read on this thread! I am currently pondering whether or not to take the next step on 2015 after installing Bilstein all around and a Hellwig rear sway bar. Also seriously looking into Boosters advice to consider getting back to stock offset rims. So I know ride quality, stiffness, and handling is subjective, but can you anyone give me input how these improvements has affected overall ride of RV?

Thank You

I've wanted to know these same questions, but I guess they were sort of answered by those who've done the lift reporting a great ride & better handling (with no mention of additional stiffness).

I have zero complaints of ride quality since installing my Koni FSD's right after purchase. But I do want 2" of ride height increase since my low spot is the macerator at 6". Pretty low and compounded by being exactly at my break-over point. Although I've never scraped bottom, I still feel unease at steeply crowned driveways that are often encountered entering parking lots.

So today I ordered jamesv999's front Supreme Suspensions 2" coil spacers, front black Sumosprings bump-stops, and the rear yellow Sumospring bump stops. 21% off the Supreme Suspensions site and 20% off Supersprings sits. Free shipping on both.

If I get 1-1/2 to 2" lift I will be happy. A 2" lift should take the fender height from 34" front/rear to 36". I'll get an alignment, but other suspension parts should work fine as OEM fender height on the Express 3500 is 38".

[peteco]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

So today I ordered jamesv999's front Supreme Suspensions 2" coil spacers, front black Sumosprings bump-stops, and the rear yellow Sumospring bump stops. 21% off the Supreme Suspensions site and 20% off Supersprings sits. Free shipping on both.

If I get 1-1/2 to 2" lift I will be happy. A 2" lift should take the fender height from 34" front/rear to 36". I'll get an alignment, but other suspension parts should work fine as OEM fender height on the Express 3500 is 38".

Are you getting the rear Sumosprings to raise the back end? I don't see how they would work to raise the back end.

[Buc22]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

I've wanted to know these same questions, but I guess they were sort of answered by those who've done the lift reporting a great ride & better handling (with no mention of additional stiffness).

I have zero complaints of ride quality since installing my Koni FSD's right after purchase. But I do want 2" of ride height increase since my low spot is the macerator at 6". Pretty low and compounded by being exactly at my break-over point. Although I've never scraped bottom, I still feel unease at steeply crowned driveways that are often encountered entering parking lots.

So today I ordered jamesv999's front Supreme Suspensions 2" coil spacers, front black Sumosprings bump-stops, and the rear yellow Sumospring bump stops. 21% off the Supreme Suspensions site and 20% off Supersprings sits. Free shipping on both.

If I get 1-1/2 to 2" lift I will be happy. A 2" lift should take the fender height from 34" front/rear to 36". I'll get an alignment, but other suspension parts should work fine as OEM fender height on the Express 3500 is 38".

Can't wait for your assessment of your rig!

[booster]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

If I get 1-1/2 to 2" lift I will be happy. A 2" lift should take the fender height from 34" front/rear to 36". I'll get an alignment, but other suspension parts should work fine as OEM fender height on the Express 3500 is 38".

Do you have a reference the 38" fenderwell height for the vans? I ask because ours was at 38.2" with the fiasco Erb spring test and the upper control arm was nearly laying on the frame, so no downtravel without damage possible. Shock was also too short by at least and inch.


The factory service manual for the different rating vans are all different from each other for trim height, which is measured at the balljoint to lower arm frame pivot. When we are 36" we are about dead center in the spec for a 3500 two wheel drive unit in 2007. 38" in our van would be scary tight on the upper control arm, I think, for me.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by peteco

Are you getting the rear Sumosprings to raise the back end? I don't see how they would work to raise the back end.

Jamesv999 says he got a 2" rear lift with the yellow (heavy duty) Sumo Springs so I'm going by that and the fact my rear leaf springs rest barely 4" above the rear leafs. Seems the Sumo Springs are about 6" which means the leafs will be resting on them at all times. They must be strong enough to maintain nearly their full height at rest if James results are an example.

Of course, if the Sumo Springs can rest at full height, I'm afraid they will be stiff and may not allow enough compression. But in that instance (or if they fail to bring the rear up to the level of the front with coil spacers), I will just replace them with the black medium duty sumo bump stops and add 2" block spacers.

But who knows, this is uncharted territory for me and I just hope to get the same results by doing the same as jamesv999.

I will post an update after installation, but that will be a couple of months from now.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by booster

Do you have a reference the 38" fenderwell height for the vans? I ask because ours was at 38.2" with the fiasco Erb spring test and the upper control arm was nearly laying on the frame, so no downtravel without damage possible. Shock was also too short by at least and inch.


The factory service manual for the different rating vans are all different from each other for trim height, which is measured at the balljoint to lower arm frame pivot. When we are 36" we are about dead center in the spec for a 3500 two wheel drive unit in 2007. 38" in our van would be scary tight on the upper control arm, I think, for me.

The 38" I quote is from someone with a stock Express 3500 van with no added conversion weight. He recently sold an Airstream Avenue just like mine and decided to go minimalist and built out his own camper. Before he started his build I asked for his fender height on his completely stock '2012 cargo van. My 2" lift should put me at your 36" height.

[booster]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

The 38" I quote is from someone with a stock Express 3500 van with no added conversion weight. He recently sold an Airstream Avenue just like mine and decided to go minimalist and built out his own camper. Before he started his build I asked for his fender height on his completely stock '2012 cargo van. My 2" lift should put me at your 36" height.

I wonder if there was a front/rear confusion, as 38" would very likely be close to what an empty 3500 would be in the back.



Once you get it higher, you will be able to shinny under it (yeah it does get harder every year and pound increase) and directly measure the official trim height. It eliminates things like tire and wheel size, tire pressure etc from the measurement so it works on all vans.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by booster

I wonder if there was a front/rear confusion, as 38" would very likely be close to what an empty 3500 would be in the back.



Once you get it higher, you will be able to shinny under it (yeah it does get harder every year and pound increase) and directly measure the official trim height. It eliminates things like tire and wheel size, tire pressure etc from the measurement so it works on all vans.

Leave it to you booster. Always providing good information, yet giving me pause to wonder if I'm doing things right. All I know is I asked my friend to measure his van, not knowing it made a difference on front or back since our rv's are generally level, if a little low.

I'll know more when my ordered lift parts arrive and I have them installed (maybe in a month). But just so I can take appropriate pre-install/post-install measurements, what is the max distance to not exceed measured at the balljoint to lower arm frame pivot?

And yes, everything gets harder every year.

[Atlee Hokie]

Thanks for the valuable info.

Do you think these same suspension upgrades will work for the 210P models?

Do you think it's necessary to change to a 17" tire to get the desired result?

Will the changes work just as well using the OEM Chevy steel rims? Or the common aluminum wheels?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by jamesv999

Update on Wheel/Tire/Suspension Upgrade for our 2014 Roadtrek 190P

Posting to www.classbforum.com, CyberRally, and Facebook

Base vehicle: 2014 Chevy Express 3500 LT Extended Cargo Van, 2WD, 26580 miles
- Original Roadtrek/AR wheels: 16x7, offset -6mm, bolt pattern 8x165.10
- Original tires: Bridgestone V-Steel RIB 265, LT245/75R16/E, 120/116S

Why upgrade?
- We wanted to improve the handling and increase the ground clearance.
- The original tires were nearly 7 years old so due to be replaced.
- The original Roadtrek/AR aluminum wheels were discolored and unappealing.
- We had previously upgraded to Bilstein shocks, which helped, but not enough.

After talking with many people and reading through many more threads on Facebook, CyberRally and www.classbforum.com, it becomes clear there are numerous suspension upgrade options to consider, including:
1. Shock replacements (Bilstein)
2. Rear air lift systems (Air Lift 5000)
3. Front coil spring replacements (Moog, TufTruck, SuperCoil, Bill Erb)
4. Bump stop replacements (SumoSprings)
5. Leaf spring upgrades (SuperSprings, Bill Erb)
6. Steering stabilizers (RoadMaster)
7. Lift kits (Weldtec Designs, Boulder Offroad, Supreme Suspensions)

I learned that one way to judge how low your Roadtrek is riding is to measure from the ground to the top of each wheel well at the center of the wheel. Assuming you have stock tires and wheels, 35.5” is near the upper limit of the spec for this vehicle. Going higher may be problematic, although several people have reportedly done so without issues. Ours were measuring 33.5” all around so we were hoping to gain about 2”.

Several people have reported success with above options #1-2-3 (Bilsteins, Air Lift, New Coils). However, we decided to go with options #1-4-7 (Bilsteins, SumoSprings, Lift Kit), in part because I liked the idea of using SumoSprings versus air springs, and in part because I wanted to go with a “supported” solution and could not find a coil vendor who would support bringing up the front of this vehicle by the desired amount (Moog and TufTruck told me they do not have supported replacement coils for this vehicle. SuperSprings has one, but only for the heavier diesel engine version of this van. Bill Erb at Valley Spring Works will reportedly make custom springs, but people have reported mixed results with them).

There seems to be widespread agreement that Bilsteins are a big improvement over the OEM shocks, and I also found many people weighing in with support for SumoSprings. The rear bump stops that come stock on this vehicle are ineffective. Replacing them with SumoSprings brought the rear up to 35.5” as desired, and greatly improved the vehicle handling. SumoSprings in front did not change the vehicle height, but adding the Supreme Suspensions 2” front lift kit (aluminum spacers that go over the coil springs) brought the front measurement up to 35.5” as desired.

I wanted to go with MotoMetal wheels, however they recommend a 17” wheel for this vehicle. I was concerned that going bigger might create clearance issues so talked with my local Chevy dealer who recommended going to a lower profile tire in order to maintain close to the same 30.5” outside diameter as the original tires. This also meant the speedometer and odometer would not require recalibration. I was mildly concerned about the wheel offset changing from -6mm to 0mm, but it ended up not being a problem (note: the steel wheels that come standard on this vehicle are +28mm offset, so the MotoMetal wheels are actually closer to the OEM spec).

As for tires, user recommendations are all over the place. I wanted to go with an All-Terrain tire because we do a lot of boondocking on dirt and gravel roads. My local tire dealer recommended the BF Goodrich KO2, and their reviews are excellent so I decided to give them a try. Changing from LT245/75R16 to LT245/70R17 increased the overall tire diameter by a mere 1mm (0.04”), but it also decreased the upper load index slightly, from 120 (3086 lbs/tire) to 119 (2998 lbs/tire), which should not be a problem given that our fully loaded weights are 4120 lbs. on the front axle and 4780 lbs. on the rear axle.

We could not be more pleased with the resulting look and, more importantly, performance of the new setup. We just got back from a 7-day road trip in Northern California where we put her to the test. Handling was off the charts better and, surprisingly, the noise level inside the RV is much quieter than before.

The specific parts used in our upgrade:
- Bilstein shocks (24-187435 front, 24-221948 rear)
- SuperSprings SumoSprings (black SSF-204-47 front, yellow SSR-205-54 rear)
- Supreme Suspensions 2” Front Lift Kit (A0731)
- MotoMetal wheels (MO97078080300, 17x8, gloss black machined)
- BF Goodrich tires (All Terrain T/A KO2, LT245/70R17/E, 119/116S)
- Low priced tire for original steel wheel / continental spare tire kit (LT245/75R16/E)

I attempted to get input from all of the above vendors before purchasing their products. Shout out to Bilstein, SuperSprings, Supreme Suspensions and BF Goodrich for their outstanding responsiveness and customer service. MotoMetal on the other hand did not respond to multiple phone calls or online inquiries, but I do like their wheels. Finally, huge thanks to all those who posted helpful information on the above mentioned Roadtrek user forums!

[booster]

Originally Posted by Atlee Hokie

Thanks for the valuable info.

Do you think these same suspension upgrades will work for the 210P models?

Do you think it's necessary to change to a 17" tire to get the desired result?

Will the changes work just as well using the OEM Chevy steel rims? Or the common aluminum wheels?

Thanks.

On these topics mentioned in your quoted post.


210s and 190s are really the same except for the rear overhang and extra rear weight so all the parts can be the same. With a 210 you might get a bit more front lift with springs than with a 190 because of a bit lower front weight, but it would probably be the same amount of change with spacers.


I don't think it is necessary to go to 17" wheels at all, and in fact until recently you couldn't even get tires that had the correct load capacity in 17". There are lots of wheels in 16" and 17" that are the wrong offset, which should be +28mm, but very few with the correct offset. You can run oversized 16" tires or stock size tires in 16", but I prefer the oversized 265-75-16 tires. Here are a couple of wheel discussions for Chevy.



https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...hevy-1985.html


https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...vies-9602.html


Stock Chevy wheels work fine and also will still fit on the tire carrier with a stock size tire. You can't go oversize tires on stock wheels or the narrower Silverado wheels, but you can on the wider pickup truck wheels. All of this is covered in the above links.

[booster]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Leave it to you booster. Always providing good information, yet giving me pause to wonder if I'm doing things right. All I know is I asked my friend to measure his van, not knowing it made a difference on front or back since our rv's are generally level, if a little low.

I'll know more when my ordered lift parts arrive and I have them installed (maybe in a month). But just so I can take appropriate pre-install/post-install measurements, what is the max distance to not exceed measured at the balljoint to lower arm frame pivot?

And yes, everything gets harder every year.

I just dug out our factory service manual for the our 07 3500 Express.


Trim height for the 3500 is 4.0-4.5" with a preferred of 4.3". I have a note in our book that ours was at 4.3" with the new springs, although it may be a touch lower now after all the years. The only vans that sit higher are shown as the "upfitter" equipped 1500 and 2500 vans for conversion vans that probably have torsion bar fronts and set higher and softer than cargo vans as they know they will be loaded.


Here is a scan of the how to measure it he trim height. You may find the two pivots to be at a bit different heights, but I think the drawing indicates the front one, so that is what I used.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by booster

I just dug out our factory service manual for the our 07 3500 Express.


Trim height for the 3500 is 4.0-4.5" with a preferred of 4.3". I have a note in our book that ours was at 4.3" with the new springs, although it may be a touch lower now after all the years. The only vans that sit higher are shown as the "upfitter" equipped 1500 and 2500 vans for conversion vans that probably have torsion bar fronts and set higher and softer than cargo vans as they know they will be loaded.


Here is a scan of the how to measure it he trim height. You may find the two pivots to be at a bit different heights, but I think the drawing indicates the front one, so that is what I used.

Thanks for the info booster, but as usual, I'm only left more confused. I went out to my driveway and measured. I couldn't bouce my rv bumper the suggested 1.5 inches (more like only .5 inch) and then got similar measurements on each side of exactly 3 inches. Is it possible I'm this much low from the recommended 4.3"?

[booster]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Thanks for the info booster, but as usual, I'm only left more confused. I went out to my driveway and measured. I couldn't bouce my rv bumper the suggested 1.5 inches (more like only .5 inch) and then got similar measurements on each side of exactly 3 inches. Is it possible I'm this much low from the recommended 4.3"?

Very possible and may be even more as it is hard to measure really well without it on a lift. The inside pivot you measure to is attached to the fender through the body so a two inch lift would actually put you above the 4.3.



Nobody but a gorilla could bounce a 3500 with good shocks 1.5", I think.

[Atlee Hokie]

Appreciate the reply. Those 2 threads you listed were interesting reading.
Before this thread, not even sure I'd ever given much thought to offset. I've always just used what ever came OEM from the chassis manufacturer.

After those 2 threads and this one, if I get a new to me RT that has the AR aluminum wheels, I may try to go back to the OEM steel wheel.

Originally Posted by booster

On these topics mentioned in your quoted post.


210s and 190s are really the same except for the rear overhang and extra rear weight so all the parts can be the same. With a 210 you might get a bit more front lift with springs than with a 190 because of a bit lower front weight, but it would probably be the same amount of change with spacers.


I don't think it is necessary to go to 17" wheels at all, and in fact until recently you couldn't even get tires that had the correct load capacity in 17". There are lots of wheels in 16" and 17" that are the wrong offset, which should be +28mm, but very few with the correct offset. You can run oversized 16" tires or stock size tires in 16", but I prefer the oversized 265-75-16 tires. Here are a couple of wheel discussions for Chevy.



https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...hevy-1985.html


https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...vies-9602.html


Stock Chevy wheels work fine and also will still fit on the tire carrier with a stock size tire. You can't go oversize tires on stock wheels or the narrower Silverado wheels, but you can on the wider pickup truck wheels. All of this is covered in the above links.

[Diver007]

On my 2013 RT 210P there is a leaf block that's not on the standard chevy express 3500. Did you have to remove it to accept the sumosprings?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Diver007

On my 2013 RT 210P there is a leaf block that's not on the standard chevy express 3500. Did you have to remove it to accept the sumosprings?

The part number on the spring is that correct one for the van spring pack per GM Parts Direct, but it does look like a new replacement.


Re the Sumo, it doesn't look like the bottom is full supported. Normally on the rear they should be supported flat on top and bottom and vertical. If they are that way they shouldn't bow like that.


In the front where they sit on the lower arm that moves on an arc, they will it the stop at a bit of an angle and may bow a little, which isn't an issue unless the bottom and top aren't full supported.


That just doesn't look right. I would send the pic to Sumo and see what they say.

[Diver007]

Sorry, to clarify there is a leaf block as shown in the bottom left of the photo. That leaf block is interfering with the spring. Do you have a leaf block? If so, did you remove it?