what is the best alarm for a campervan etc.

[Mike]

I agree, it would deter a thief intent on hot wiring and stealing the entire RV. I think if thieves are intent on taking the whole van, because it's potentially worth the effort if it's a brand new RV conversion van worth over $100,000, then the wheel lift or flat bed tow truck is their best option. I'm not sure whether an older van can be hot wired more easily, but you would have to wonder why a thief would want to steal an entire older vehicle instead of just the contents, except maybe for parts? You never know, though.
I know that if I heard a car alarm screaming for more than a few minutes, I'd be more likely to wonder what's up, and maybe have a look, than the more familiar accidental 10-20 second false alarm, that we've all heard at shopping malls, and in the neighbor's driveway.
If set properly, my alarm will activate on any opened door, or the vibration of other types of entry, such as breaking a window. I'm hoping the resulting loud noise would scare a thief off. However, as you said, it's like a tree falling in the forest, if nobody is there to hear it (and investigate), or our fobs are out of range, it's useless. On a slightly brighter note, it does get us a 10% discount on our insurance premium.

[Rok]

After researching this fairly thoroughly, I found that most installer companies really stink--at least in our area. Checked out Yelp, Angie's List, etc., and most got ratings below average (two starts out of five, etc.). Anyway I found one company with good ratings. Everyone rated them high on all parameters except cost--they are very proud of what they do and charge accordingly. They cost about 50% more than the other companies for the same stuff. They want about $1500 for a system that has an alarm, GPS tracking, auto-start, and the ability to do it all via a cell phone. The question is: Is it worth it? Seems like a reasonable price to protect a very valuable asset.

The company specializes in high end vehicles like MB's, Ferrari's, etc. I would imagine that there is a good company like them in any large metropolitan area.......but who knows.

The bottom line is that there are a LOT of companies who do it very badly, and a few who do a good job.

..........Rocky

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Rok

After researching this fairly thoroughly, I found that most installer companies really stink--at least in our area. Checked out Yelp, Angie's List, etc., and most got ratings below average (two starts out of five, etc.). Anyway I found one company with good ratings. Everyone rated them high on all parameters except cost--they are very proud of what they do and charge accordingly. They cost about 50% more than the other companies for the same stuff. They want about $1500 for a system that has an alarm, GPS tracking, auto-start, and the ability to do it all via a cell phone. The question is: Is it worth it? Seems like a reasonable price to protect a very valuable asset.

The company specializes in high end vehicles like MB's, Ferrari's, etc. I would imagine that there is a good company like them in any large metropolitan area.......but who knows.

The bottom line is that there are a LOT of companies who do it very badly, and a few who do a good job.

..........Rocky

Yikes! That sounds like a lot, but maybe that's the price you pay for peace of mind? If you spend over $100,000 for a vehicle, you'd think the alarm system/function would be standard equipment. However, if the after market system costs $1500, that's only 1.5% of the total cost.
Questions:
Are there any on-going subscription charges/fees for the cell phone and GPS functions?
Keep in mind there may be situations where there isn't cell phone coverage where you're parked. Are there fobs of some sort for that situation?
Does the system disable the engine start circuitry? That would be a bonus.

From personal experience, the remote start is worth every penny. Mine runs the engine for up to 15 minutes, then shuts off. Long enough to warm it up, or cool it down.
I think I mentioned my system doesn't disable the engine start, just makes a lot of noise and flashes the running lights and signals the 2-way fobs, if they're in range. It's connected by wiring to the engine battery power circuitry for power, the siren horn, and the OBD II computer. It uses the OBD II door lock/unlock status to determine if there's been a breach, and there's a small vibration/shock sensor buried under the dash somewhere that senses excessive vibration.
If the system you've found sends your cell phone an alarm text message, and you can arm/disarm/start it remotely from your phone, that would be a nice feature.
Also, don't forget, if you get an alarm system installed, no matter what it's degree of sophistication, tell your insurance company. It may get you a premium discount.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Rok

After researching this fairly thoroughly, I found that most installer companies really stink--at least in our area. Checked out Yelp, Angie's List, etc., and most got ratings below average (two starts out of five, etc.). Anyway I found one company with good ratings. Everyone rated them high on all parameters except cost--they are very proud of what they do and charge accordingly. They cost about 50% more than the other companies for the same stuff. They want about $1500 for a system that has an alarm, GPS tracking, auto-start, and the ability to do it all via a cell phone. The question is: Is it worth it? Seems like a reasonable price to protect a very valuable asset.

The company specializes in high end vehicles like MB's, Ferrari's, etc. I would imagine that there is a good company like them in any large metropolitan area.......but who knows.

The bottom line is that there are a LOT of companies who do it very badly, and a few who do a good job.

..........Rocky

Did they give you any information on power usage, both when alarmed and in idle mode? As I mentioned earlier, this is a major question to me, and nobody seems to publish the information.

This is what Viper says on their website:

Directed prides itself in producing products with the lowest possible power consumption in the industry! Automobiles today are being produced with extremely complex wiring systems and many on-board computers. This leaves less of the vehicle's electrical resources free to be used by aftermarket products. For this reason, a major consideration in the design of Viper security systems is the current consumption. This concern has been addressed by reducing the idle current of our systems to the bare minimum necessary for the product to perform properly.

But,of course they don't tell you what the draw actually is. For those of us who chase power use with LED lights, efficient TVs and such, even .3 amps continuous can add up (7.2 amp-hr per day, which is 1/4 to 1/3 of what it takes to run our compressor frig for that long). That would take a 50AH starting battery flat in a week. The .3 is also about what all the detectors and such pull off the house batteries, for comparison, but those batteries are much larger (we also shut off the 12v when we are not in the van and don't need the detectors or anything running).

Does the cell phone connection on that one require a data plan and run through the internet, like many do? That could also increase your costs if you don't already have a data plan. Also screwed if no cell service where you are.

[Johnny R]

Availability of car alarms is like everything else - good, cheap and fast. but never all three at the same time. Only two out of three at the same time.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by booster

Did they give you any information on power usage, both when alarmed and in idle mode? As I mentioned earlier, this is a major question to me, and nobody seems to publish the information.

This is what Viper says on their website:

Directed prides itself in producing products with the lowest possible power consumption in the industry! Automobiles today are being produced with extremely complex wiring systems and many on-board computers. This leaves less of the vehicle's electrical resources free to be used by aftermarket products. For this reason, a major consideration in the design of Viper security systems is the current consumption. This concern has been addressed by reducing the idle current of our systems to the bare minimum necessary for the product to perform properly.

But,of course they don't tell you what the draw actually is. For those of us who chase power use with LED lights, efficient TVs and such, even .3 amps continuous can add up (7.2 amp-hr per day, which is 1/4 to 1/3 of what it takes to run our compressor frig for that long). That would take a 50AH starting battery flat in a week. The .3 is also about what all the detectors and such pull off the house batteries, for comparison, but those batteries are much larger (we also shut off the 12v when we are not in the van and don't need the detectors or anything running).

Does the cell phone connection on that one require a data plan and run through the internet, like many do? That could also increase your costs if you don't already have a data plan. Also screwed if no cell service where you are.

You have a DIY battery combiner and a deep cycle chassis battery if I recall. Are you concerned about leaving the van with the alarm armed for several hours, and then returning to a dead chassis battery? Sorry, just throwing out ideas.
I know what you're saying about current draw, and my van sits for days sometimes with the alarm armed, and until just recently, I've had no problems. The alarm function has always worked fine, but I've had to boost the battery twice in the last 2 months, after extended periods of cold weather and not starting or driving it (the weather has caused the roads here to be salted/brined often) regularly like I did before we moved. I think these vehicles were definitely meant to be driven once in a while, and ours has been mostly idle for over a year now. We simply haven't used it. I try to remember to fire it up and take it out for an hour or two, but the roads have been the problem, so it's just sat in the driveway. The chassis battery is at least 3 years old now, and batteries do have a life span. I might still have the receipt to see if Canadian Tire will prorate a replacement. I think I'll see if I can substitute a deep cycle AGM for the starting battery this time.
When I had the issue with my alarm (remote start sequence wasn't engaging the alternator, which they fixed pretty quickly by conferring with the manufacturer) I was able to contact the manufacturer myself. They responded to my emails within hours.
Why not fire off a few emails and ask? (you probably already have )
I looked in the manuals I downloaded for my alarm/starter and there's nothing in them about the amount of draw by the armed alarm. I asked at the time, and was told not much, but I expected that answer. If the alarm system disables your vehicle by draining the battery, does that count as an immobilizer feature?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Mike

You have a DIY battery combiner and a deep cycle chassis battery if I recall. Are you concerned about leaving the van with the alarm armed for several hours, and then returning to a dead chassis battery? Sorry, just throwing out ideas.
I know what you're saying about current draw, and my van sits for days sometimes with the alarm armed, and until just recently, I've had no problems. The alarm function has always worked fine, but I've had to boost the battery twice in the last 2 months, after extended periods of cold weather and not starting or driving it (the weather has caused the roads here to be salted/brined often) regularly like I did before we moved. I think these vehicles were definitely meant to be driven once in a while, and ours has been mostly idle for over a year now. We simply haven't used it. I try to remember to fire it up and take it out for an hour or two, but the roads have been the problem, so it's just sat in the driveway. The chassis battery is at least 3 years old now, and batteries do have a life span. I might still have the receipt to see if Canadian Tire will prorate a replacement. I think I'll see if I can substitute a deep cycle AGM for the starting battery this time.
When I had the issue with my alarm (remote start sequence wasn't engaging the alternator, which they fixed pretty quickly by conferring with the manufacturer) I was able to contact the manufacturer myself. They responded to my emails within hours.
Why not fire off a few emails and ask? (you probably already have )
I looked in the manuals I downloaded for my alarm/starter and there's nothing in them about the amount of draw by the armed alarm. I asked at the time, and was told not much, but I expected that answer. If the alarm system disables your vehicle by draining the battery, does that count as an immobilizer feature?

The DIY we have on our separator is so we can disconnect the coach batteries while driving, to prevent overcharging by the high voltage (14.4-14.5) Chevy alternator. We don't use it anymore because I got the alternator modified with a new regulator so we now charge at 13.8-13.9. I may need to modify it slightly so we can use it with the solar. If the solar puts out enough power to activate the separator, we would be wasting an amp of output on the separator coil.

No, we are not all that concerned about a couple of hours of drain, if reasonable, and that would be easily justifiable for the security. I am more concerned about the case where we are sitting in a boondock situation for a week, with the alarm disarmed for 99% for the time. If it was using the previously mentioned, arbitrary, .3 amps when idle, and thus the 7.2ah per day, in a week we would use all the extra capacity the big deep cycle starter battery gives us. That 50ah that served no use would power our compressor frig for two days in relatively normal conditions.

I did send e-mails off to a couple of the alarm manufacturers a couple of years ago, including Viper, and they made a of noise about different models, options, base vehicles, etc, but never gave any real information for any of them. A couple of days ago, I sent an inquiry to the local installer that has the best reputation around here, asking about the issue, and also about Bluetooth radios taking signals from our laptop. I haven't heard back from them to this point.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by booster

The DIY we have on our separator is so we can disconnect the coach batteries while driving, to prevent overcharging by the high voltage (14.4-14.5) Chevy alternator. We don't use it anymore because I got the alternator modified with a new regulator so we now charge at 13.8-13.9. I may need to modify it slightly so we can use it with the solar. If the solar puts out enough power to activate the separator, we would be wasting an amp of output on the separator coil.

No, we are not all that concerned about a couple of hours of drain, if reasonable, and that would be easily justifiable for the security. I am more concerned about the case where we are sitting in a boondock situation for a week, with the alarm disarmed for 99% for the time. If it was using the previously mentioned, arbitrary, .3 amps when idle, and thus the 7.2ah per day, in a week we would use all the extra capacity the big deep cycle starter battery gives us. That 50ah that served no use would power our compressor frig for two days in relatively normal conditions.

I did send e-mails off to a couple of the alarm manufacturers a couple of years ago, including Viper, and they made a of noise about different models, options, base vehicles, etc, but never gave any real information for any of them. A couple of days ago, I sent an inquiry to the local installer that has the best reputation around here, asking about the issue, and also about Bluetooth radios taking signals from our laptop. I haven't heard back from them to this point.

"The 50ah that served no use" - In my case, that (hypothetical) 50 ah draw allows me to communicate with the alarm system brain and control the functions including arm/disarm, etc. and the remote start function via the remote fobs. Maybe there's an optional disconnect switch for the brain of the unit, to eliminate that vampire draw, I never thought to ask when they installed mine. I guess I'm taking the good with the bad, having never considered the effect on the boondocking power reserve that closely. It's just a necessary evil to me, I guess.
I've sent an email to the folks that support my alarm system. I'll see if I have any better luck getting a response. I've searched their website, but found nothing regarding the system power consumption specs.

[Rok]

Let's see if I can remember all the questions.

First, yes, there is an annual charge for having the system hooked up to call your phone and to receive inputs from your phone. I think it was $129 per year. Yes, if you are out of cell range, the key fobs will activate all functions, and will alert you if someone is breaking in, but the range isn't very far for them.

Let me see if I can find my notes regarding the system the installer said he'd be using...........

here it is. I don't know which model he was speaking of:

http://www.compustar.com/index.php

Looking at the web page I don't see the stuff about the thing calling my cell. Nor do I see anything about disabling the start feature.

Still deciding whether we really need it.

............Rocky

[Mike]

Compustar and Nustart are both made/owned by a Seattle based company called Firstech, LLC as far as I can tell and recall. They tend to go by the brand name Compustar, but Firstech is probably the holding company for the various other brands they manufacture.
http://www.compustar.com/company.html
They also have a product called Dronemobile that seems to suggest it will use a smartphone app to do some of the remote communications between the brains and the remotes. Maybe that's what the installer was talking about?
http://www.dronemobile.com/

When I was looking into the various brands a few years back there was a reason I avoided Viper, possibly because the published remote range was not as great as the Nustart (which says 5,000' but that would be unlikely even under absolutely ideal conditions - I think I may have had 1000' of range, and been able to flash the running lights, start the engine from that distance), and I recall finding out back then that Compustar and Nustart were related.
That Dronemobile looks interesting if you have a smartphone, which I don't. I don't need the intellectual competition.

[Mike]

I have the Nustart NUAS8000 model, about 3 years old, and I asked them about power draw and ways to reduce it.

From Nustart (Staub Electronics) Technical Support...........

"Hi Mike

NuStart systems will draw anywhere from 30-80mA depending on the type of vehicle and accessories installed with the system. If your friend is concerned with current draw CompuStar/NuStart systems do have programmable options to accommodate extended absence from your vehicle.

Antenna Power Save - Some people may not drive their vehicle very often, this may cause the battery to become discharged because it is not getting recharged on a regular basis. The antenna power save option will turn off the antenna after the specified amount of time to conserve power. While the antenna is asleep, the system will not respond to the remotes. Any type of input to the system will wake up the antenna, i.e.: ignition, brake, door, trunk, hood, shock, RPS, etc. A remote start only user just needs to open their door to reactivate the system, however, a user with an alarm or alarm/ start system will need to trigger the pre-warn stage of the shock sensor to quietly wake up the antenna. (This feature is not available when using EZ-GO)


Low Battery Warning - This feature option, which is default to off when the system is armed and the feature is on the main control unit, will monitor the voltage of the vehicles battery at its connection point. When the battery voltage drops to or below 11.3 volts the control module will send a page to the 2 Way. It will beep several times for 5 seconds, every 50 seconds, 3 times and flash the battery indicator on the remote. When you query the remote or unlock/disarm the system the remote will display the voltage of the vehicle’s battery. When option 3 (11.3v) or 4 (11.7v) is set, 2-13 is set to option 2, and Timer Mode option is activated on the remote, the vehicle will remote start and run for 15 minutes


Your installer can activate these options for you.

Best Regards,
NuStart Warranty and 12V Technical Support Manager."
The draw ranges from .03 to .08 amps, which seems pretty low?
I have requested further info on how to enable the options for Antenna Power Save and Low Battery Warning for my unit, if possible, as I was unaware of them when I had the system installed. I suspect my model may not have had the options, but we'll see.
Also, when we stop for the night, we usually arm at least the entry points breach alarm. Disabling the entire system to reduce power reserve overhead would make this sleep time security feature unavailable. The co-pilot thought of this item, not me.

[Rok]

Yes Mike, the name of the system we're having installed is Dronemobile. When we made the appt. for the installation, the quote suddenly went to about double what they gave us as a ballpark feature. Apparently setting up the auto-start feature on a MB Sprinter product involves some MB stuff and it alone consts the $1500.

We opted to not pay that amount for being able to start our rig remotely. People have said it is a great feature to have, but we can get a lot of other great features for 1500 bucks. If we find that we're missing it, we'll get it. I'm just afraid that we won't know what we're missing. We avoided GPS until we bought our Prius and they accidentally delivered ours with it. We wanted the car so bad that we went ahead an ponied up the money for it and now wonder how we ever got along without it. When we were offered a Pleasure Way without it, we just said, "No!". (Naturally, our Great West will have navigation onboard.)

So, the alarm tech for our Sprinter apologized profusly regarding the cost of the MB remote start module, and gave us a bit of a deal on the rest of the system.

Our van is due Thursday or Friday, and we're excited about getting it.

...........Rocky

[Mike]

Once again, WOW! $1500?
I see that MB offers a Sprinter factory remote start module.
http://mercedesremotestart.com/
Is that what the installer was going to add? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. You might get a better deal on it if you have it done at an MB dealer. If your van doesn't have it, they can probably retrofit one.
Like GPS, remote start is a nice convenience.

Hope everything goes smoothly. You've done a pile of homework on this, and I hope it pays off.

[Rok]

Originally Posted by Mike

Once again, WOW! $1500?
I
Hope everything goes smoothly. You've done a pile of homework on this, and I hope it pays off.

Thanks, Mike. Me, too.

During our "homework collecting" one of the salesmen at a dealership we were visiting remarked that Class B customers are sometimes a different breed. He talked about "Poindexter engineering type people who had scoured the internet and knew everything about the rigs that could possibly be known. They would come in and ask questions that nobody in the dealership knew and it was difficult for even the reps of the company to find the information without going to the engineers to find out." The salesman mentioned this with some distain in his voice.

Unfortunately (for the salesman) I kind of identify with his stereotyped "Poindexter" guy. I may not be a small, gangley guy, and I'm not an engineer, but I do appreciate someone who is a "high information" person--whether it is a "high informaton voter" or a "high information buyer".

What do Class A buyer's do? Do they walk into a rig and say, "Hey, you know this smells nice. Wrap it up, I'll take it." I find that hard to believe because most A's and C's definitely don't smell very nice to me.

I wonder what the difference between Class B'ers and other RV owners is. Actually that might make for a good topic........I think I'll start one.

...............Rocky

[lightspeed]

i am really , really surprised that more isn't known on this subject with theft being the way it is and even getting worse all the time due to drugs , economy etc.
i will do more research and post some things and links on here .
This subject is especially important to me as some day i hope to fix my dream stealth van up to my personal taste and live in it in california . So it is very important to me to have the best affordable security on it for when i am out of the vehicle/ home.

here is a low level intry one that has starter kill.
http://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/viper350plus.aspx
will post others and better ones on here .

[lightspeed]

also here is some interesting replies on forums i found with questions about alarm systems . to me the part about making it hard to get to a hidden alarm is the best solution .

how can they bypass car alarms without setting off the alarm--or do they actually set off the alarm, then turn it off once they're inside the vehicle? i'm getting a 2-way pager, but i know thieves can bypass them if they really want from other stories i've heard. i'd figure they would be unbeatable if your 2-way pager is in range, because when they open your door, your alarm would page you to tell you that your car door was open. but if that's the case, then how do they still get away with people's cars?

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12-26-2008, 04:47 AM #2
BamBamDB1
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
They break in. alarm blaring... First thing they go for is either under the dash alarm wires or straight to the engine bay to disable the alarm from the battery or whatever components are in there.

You pager will only beep for 5 seconds or so until they disable the alarm... I suggest a stealthy install. I think there is a write up on here somewhere for it and a kill switch cleverly hidden somewhere.
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12-26-2008, 06:01 AM #3
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
Even with those they can usually bypass it. The key is to slow them down as long as possible. You can do a fuel kill switch but many will just run a wire to bypass it. Ignition kill under the hood is good slow down. But if a theif wants it, they will just tow it.

12-26-2008, 09:47 AM #4
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
jay24K, you're exactly right. If a thief wants your car that bad, he/she will take it no matter what. Removable steering wheels, paging alarms, etc. will not stop a tow truck.
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12-26-2008, 10:41 PM #8
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
I don't think we should be answering the O.P'S question.
He may be a car thief in training.
Nothing personal but it could be.


back up battery
in-accesable hood pin.
interior pizzo siren.
hidden exterior siren and wiring. (inside fenders is best)
hidden alarm brain
split loom wiring as much as possible.

once the thief pops the hood, the alarm is alerted. the theif pulls the possitive battery terminal, the alarm is still sounding since you have a back up battery. the thief looks for the external siren, but can't reach the wiring, or siren it self... by then, nothing he can do, but spend several mins inside the car, trying to disable the alarm brain. all while the interior pizzo siren is rining in his ear. its not worth it.

its no secret. but you must make sure your install is though, and hidden. not some quick 30min BB/CC install on the steering column.
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12-27-2008, 01:13 AM #12
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
like most say, alarm will slow them down, they'll get it even with an super expensive alarm. i suggest a lojack system. even if they steal it, you'll be able to find it fast and quick.
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12-27-2008, 01:18 AM #13
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRD^don
like most say, alarm will slow them down, they'll get it even with an super expensive alarm. i suggest a lojack system. even if they steal it, you'll be able to find it fast and quick.
Or something that actually works more than 30 miles from my home would be nice. (Maybe in conjunction with LoJack.)
(Yep, DEI GPS again.)
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12-27-2008, 04:53 PM #14
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
I think most theives wont even wanna take a car unless your alarm sucked and they clipped it in 5 seconds. I think they would just smash the window and run with your CD player or something they can grab and take. They always do that around my area. Smash and Grab.





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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
I got a relatively thick 7-strand stainless cable that's holding my head unit to my chassis. That's the basic theory behind theif deturance - do the unexpected. Once they get confused, they get slow and sloppy. That's how a theif gets caught, or detured.

Most they just disable the siren or brain by cutting exposed wires. Its not uncommon to hear an alarm triggered accidentally for 5-10 seconds. As long as it looks like the owner, most people aren't bothered by it, thinking it was an accident. I had some thieves take stuff from my cars once, and my neighbor thought it was just my brother and I - bystanders rarely investigate.
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
yeah. here they steal cars any way they can get them. i advise to do whatever u have to do to keep them from getting ur car. The point is if u want to keep ur car. Get as many gajets/alarms to prevent them from stealing ur car or parts off of it. the lo jack is a great idea. if they steal ur car u will know were its at. as far as how they get by the systems i dont know. around my way they get them with a roll back or push them down the street away from ur house from what ive heard. These ways they have more time because u dont here ur car start up. This happened to a good friend of mine they pushed his down the road and started it about 1/4 mile away. Another one of my friends they got his car with a roll back. niether car had any anti theft devise. Here is the final statement "A LOCK WILL ONLY KEEP A HONEST MAN OUT. PROTECT UR CAR IF U CARE ABOUT IT!"





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I just installed my alarm and I did a stealth alarm.
I did a backup battery and I hit my siren really well. To get to it, they are going to have to pull the whole fusebox. I also put my internal siren on the opposite end of my car. I figure they go for the sound first. Then they have to go to the other side to figure out where the brain is. I'm also thinking of using my old alarm and dead wiring it up. That way they go for the easy one and think WTF?!?! Imagine a thief finding brains all over your car. If it was me, I'd just shake my head and leave.


another thing you have to remember is when a theif is looking for those kill switches etc they arnt going to take their sweet *** time looking for them so you have to really hide them good the best spot is probably up under the dash where you cant see or reach it because if they thing its under your rug they arnt going to be nice and take it up the right way they are just going to cut it till they get to it or if they think its in the headliner they are just going to rip it right down

12-28-2008, 07:42 AM #19
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
I was also told once they get the sirens off, they listen for the clicking of the alarm brain. That alerts them to where it is exactly at. That's why it is important to make it harder for them to shut those off.

01-01-2009, 08:21 PM #20
kanadaa
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay24k
I was also told once they get the sirens off, they listen for the clicking of the alarm brain. That alerts them to where it is exactly at. That's why it is important to make it harder for them to shut those off.
Dynamat the brain???

01-01-2009, 08:29 PM #21
Davus
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Re: how do thieves bypass car alarms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanadaa
Dynamat the brain???
Amazing first post, I laughed. Welcome to Honda-Tech.

The brain's light flash relay has always annoyed me too, hearing my quarter panel tick every time I disarmed my alarm... But I do not want to disable such a feature. Thus the obvious solution is to take the light flash output, attach it to 30 relays spread throughout the car! -nods-
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1996 Civic EX, 263,000 miles, D16Y7 converted to M/T, project when not lazy (too many issues)
2007 Civic EX, 39,000+ miles, daily driven M/T

01-01-2009, 10:20 PM #22
integrawow
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[lightspeed]

here is an interesting auto security site i read a little from this in the past here is the link :
this is an anti theft device only so other security alarm for entry would also have to be put on .

RAVELCO

RAVELCO FEATURES

Not one vehicle ever stolen by defeating a properly installed and utilized RAVELCO.
Comes with two plugs, (one a spare), additional plugs may be ordered.
There are more than 100,000 different electronic combinations . . . NO master plugs.
Comes with two window stickers: "WARNING -- Protected with the "Ravelco Anti Theft Device"
Absolutely will not affect your new car warranty in any way. Magnuson - Moss Act
The Ravelco will not affect any other item you have installed in your vehicle.
"Prevents "Hot Wiring" - Breaking the steering column and starting your vehicle.
LIFETIME WARRANTY for the original owner.
Most insurance companies will give 10% to 25% discount on your comprehensive rates.
Absolutely no equipment failures . . . No tow-ins, no breakdowns.
Only your ignition key and your RAVELCO PLUG will allow your vehicle to start.
The Ravelco protects all vehicles: gasoline, diesel and hybrid engines.
Over 4 MILLION Installations Worldwide !
European Union - Certificate of Conformity (NR 3593)
Each Ravelco is hand made and all components are manufactured entirely in the U. S. A.

http://www.ravelco.com/product.html

[booster]

I find that very interesting, since I was leaning toward doing a kill switch anyway, and forgo the breakin alarm, at least for now. Not cheap, it sure does look like it would save the van theft issue, unless they put it on a truck and cart it away.

Originally Posted by lightspeed

here is an interesting auto security site i read a little from this in the past here is the link :
this is an anti theft device only so other security alarm for entry would also have to be put on .

RAVELCO

RAVELCO FEATURES

Not one vehicle ever stolen by defeating a properly installed and utilized RAVELCO.
Comes with two plugs, (one a spare), additional plugs may be ordered.
There are more than 100,000 different electronic combinations . . . NO master plugs.
Comes with two window stickers: "WARNING -- Protected with the "Ravelco Anti Theft Device"
Absolutely will not affect your new car warranty in any way. Magnuson - Moss Act
The Ravelco will not affect any other item you have installed in your vehicle.
"Prevents "Hot Wiring" - Breaking the steering column and starting your vehicle.
LIFETIME WARRANTY for the original owner.
Most insurance companies will give 10% to 25% discount on your comprehensive rates.
Absolutely no equipment failures . . . No tow-ins, no breakdowns.
Only your ignition key and your RAVELCO PLUG will allow your vehicle to start.
The Ravelco protects all vehicles: gasoline, diesel and hybrid engines.
Over 4 MILLION Installations Worldwide !
European Union - Certificate of Conformity (NR 3593)
Each Ravelco is hand made and all components are manufactured entirely in the U. S. A.

http://www.ravelco.com/product.html

[booster]

As we get ready to do some actual traveling this summer, I have been readdressing the alarm/anti-theft issue. The local Viper dealer claims 1 milliamp of power draw when armed or disarmed, which seems off the wall when I read about how many folks have dead batteries after a Viper instal. The disabler is starter only, which also would be easy to get around.

Even though expensive for what it is, the Ravelco is looking more like what we would like. A squacking alarm gets ignored, and it only takes seconds to grab stuff from inside, so we are really (mostly) just concerned with losing the van, which this should do well, with it's multiple disableing circuits. Most of what we have in the van is pretty easily replaced, even on the road, and we also have a small safe for data, keys, money, etc, that would be very hard to remove or get in to.

I called the Texas main office and found out that the dealers do not have fixed locations, and cover fairly large areas, installing at your location, including campgrounds. We will be in the Northeast this fall, and there is a dealer there who covers where we will be, or we could reroute our trip a bit to go through the UP of Michigan, as there is a dealer that covers all of Michigan.

No power, total disable, no chance of electrical glitch immobilizing us, very simple and fail proof. We will probably do this in lieu of putting in our own kill switch, having it installed while we are on the road this fall.

Originally Posted by booster

I find that very interesting, since I was leaning toward doing a kill switch anyway, and forgo the breakin alarm, at least for now. Not cheap, it sure does look like it would save the van theft issue, unless they put it on a truck and cart it away.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by booster

As we get ready to do some actual traveling this summer, I have been readdressing the alarm/anti-theft issue. The local Viper dealer claims 1 milliamp of power draw when armed or disarmed, which seems off the wall when I read about how many folks have dead batteries after a Viper instal. The disabler is starter only, which also would be easy to get around.

Even though expensive for what it is, the Ravelco is looking more like what we would like. A squacking alarm gets ignored, and it only takes seconds to grab stuff from inside, so we are really (mostly) just concerned with losing the van, which this should do well, with it's multiple disableing circuits. Most of what we have in the van is pretty easily replaced, even on the road, and we also have a small safe for data, keys, money, etc, that would be very hard to remove or get in to.

I called the Texas main office and found out that the dealers do not have fixed locations, and cover fairly large areas, installing at your location, including campgrounds. We will be in the Northeast this fall, and there is a dealer there who covers where we will be, or we could reroute our trip a bit to go through the UP of Michigan, as there is a dealer that covers all of Michigan.

No power, total disable, no chance of electrical glitch immobilizing us, very simple and fail proof. We will probably do this in lieu of putting in our own kill switch, having it installed while we are on the road this fall.

Just re-reading this thread and had some (more) random thoughts on it. For what they're worth.

The Ravelco system does seem like a highly effective way of disabling the engine of the vehicle. It does not glue it to the spot where it is parked, however. It is also not noisy, to draw attention to your vehicle if it is being victimized.

If your main concern is losing the van, then you could probably come up with a simpler, hard to find, engine disabling methodology yourself, for a lot less money than the Ravelco system, which we have decided can be defeated by a flatbed. You said an audible alarm is ignored, which may or may not be true, but when was the last time you saw, or know of someone, challenging a tow truck driver to explain why he was towing a vehicle? btw, that small safe you mentioned might encourage a professional thief to immediately choose the flatbed method having seen the Ravelco on the dash, for no other reason than curiosity as to the contents, and the knowledge that starting the vehicle quickly will be almost impossible.

If an amateur thief who just wants a camera or an iPad, sees a Ravelco on the dash somewhere, and actually knows what it is, he'll still slim jim a door, or do a smash and grab. However, I think that if an amateur sees a little blue LED flashing beside it as well, to indicate there is an audible companion alarm, he may bypass you and move to another vehicle. Again, I think the amateur is more likely to bypass the vehicle with the audible alarm.

If a pro has decided to steal the whole vehicle and sees the Ravelco on the dash somewhere, and knows what it is, you'll be saving him some time by making the flatbed decision for him much more quickly, than if he had to try to get around a homemade immobilizer, that wasn't as obvious at first glance. Or, he may bypass you and move on to another vehicle.

So, if the thief wants the whole van and doesn't have a flatbed, the Ravelco probably wins. But so might a homemade immobilizer system. Or, the amateur smash and grab thief may be deterred, if there is an audible alarm as well as an immobilizer, which is probably the best overall combination.

I would go with the lowest draw audible alarm system you can find, to deter the amateurs, and add your own design of engine disabling system, to at least force the pros to use up a lot of time and/or a tow truck to get the whole vehicle.
Or, you could get a dog......