What Is An Ambassador?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

The joys of being a Roadtrek Ambassador

Any updates from Campskunk?
retired and fulltiming for eight years now in a Roadtrek CS Adventurous campervan.

You can try to message him here but he is not likely to respond...

Class B Forums - View Profile: campskunk

He has only posted 16 times here and not recently. He blocked me everywhere a few years ago and won’t respond to any messages I send him. He seems to think that I am the person who reported him to Facebook as having a phony name (they deleted his account and he had come up with a new phony name). I wasn’t the one who did it but it happened right after he threw me under the bus to Mike by reporting something I posted here to Mike. Campskunk and Jennifer Fawcett (one of Mike’s moderators) have monitored this forum for a long time to find negative comments about Mike, Hammill, Roadtrek, etc., and report them to Mike.

[TerrierTude]

yes, there are people who love Mike. But I suspect he appeals to an older demographic. Hell, I think I'm only a decade and a half younger than him and I kind of find him a fuddy duddy. I'm just saying, young people are the growing market for Class B RVs. Robin at Creativity RV and other users like the Russos just come across as snappier, more media and camera savvy and more content rich. Also, like it or not, Mike is so closely tied into the Roadtrek brand, I'm just not sure how credible he will be for LTV, or a case can be made that the vast majority of people probably don't really know about any of the background. I don't want to be ageist -- because I'm probably closer to Mike's age than Robin's -- but having been in Silicon Valley, there's an attitude you see in people like Millennials who have grown up with technology that you don't see in other people. I've tried to sit through Mike's videos and there is an awful lot of "gee why isn't this feed thingy working" and discomfort with tech. I think, if I were LTV, I'd want someone younger, snappier, more media comfortable to be my Ambassador. Hell, if I were the Marketing Manager, I would get a number of Brand Ambassadors. I'd have one who's full time (Robin), one with a young family, and one retired couple (which could be Mike and Jennifer).

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

As I stated...

On the other hand, we have comparatively small numbers of people on several groups and forums who don’t approve of Mike for various reasons.

I see the complaints but they are coming from a very small number of people compared to the number of people who LTV will reach with them as Brand Ambassadors...

Greg, I know Mike and like him. However, in his first podcast after visiting LTV he stated lithium batteries and second alternators are not proven technology after him having them for 5 years. And he further outlandishly stated the technology was 5 years out. I know better. Done right it provides immense opportunity especially in boondocking that traditional systems offered by LTV don't. So, I assume he is just spouting the LTV company line or he misled many for 5 years to buy into Roadtrek's Rube Goldberg system of maybe which there were many problems that were buried. Is that good advice? I quite frankly was flabbergasted to listen to that podcast.

[TerrierTude]

I too was flabbergasted. As I am one of the newbie RVers who was partially gaslighted by him. He wasn't the only factor, but his site was one of the ones I went to to decide which RV to buy.

Now after 5 years of being the Jim Jones of Roadtrek, he's suddenly trashing them and the tech advantages he used to tout?

Oh well, even though I'm probably going to have to completely retrofit my Roadtrek to replace the gerryrigged system with a best-of-breed system, I still love that li'l van.

But that might be because it's my first RV. There's nothing that can take the place in your heart for your first RV.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Greg, I know Mike and like him. However, in his first podcast after visiting LTV he stated lithium batteries and second alternators are not proven technology after him having them for 5 years. And he further outlandishly stated the technology was 5 years out. I know better. Done right it provides immense opportunity especially in boondocking that traditional systems offered by LTV don't. So, I assume he is just spouting the LTV company line or he misled many for 5 years to buy into Roadtrek's Rube Goldberg system of maybe which there were many problems that were buried. Is that good advice? I quite frankly was flabbergasted to listen to that podcast.

Don’t assume I am defending what he has done or is doing in terms of endorsing products and then changing his tune.

I just don’t see the downside to LTV of making him a brand ambassador, I would guess he had a very positive effect for Roadtrek as a brand ambassador. He is definitely going to appeal to the older buyers, not the younger ones.

[TerrierTude]

Which is why I can't see LTV hanging their hat on him. I think he has a very specific and limited demographic appeal (to a demographic that is going to dwindle soon).

But if LTV wants to go with a multiple brand ambassadors strategy and include a wide variety of different types of ambassadors from different demographics -- I can see him fitting right in on the upper end of the age spectrum.

I just know I was yawning and scrolling through his feeds and finding him like an old grandpa trying to do tech. So I can imagine a young whippersnapper of 20 to 30 would be completely bored by him.

I also think he's completely tainted himself as a shill without conviction. But again, the vast majority of people probably know nothing of his background or association with Roadtrek, so I'm not sure that matters.

[bobojay]

It cheapens the brand vs someone that actually buys their van themselves. LTV doesn't need this.
And, what DavyDD said about Mike changing his tune to fit the brand. That's just deceptive...

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I would guess he had a very positive effect for Roadtrek as a brand ambassador. He is definitely going to appeal to the older buyers, not the younger ones.

I think the situation is somewhat sad....

As has been discussed already, many folks who buy RVs are probably not aware of the EHG NA situation (hence not concerned)

Many people (self included) go out to the web and search when interested in a product (i.e Google: Class B, Campervan, etc.) and they will stumble across this folksy couple who appear quite innocent tooling around in their Roadtrek (all smiles)

When they go to RV shows they spend a disproportionate time around the Hymer / Roadtrek models

Example: This is a Hymer NA Advertisment - plain and simple
1) They only focused on EHG NA products
2) They never mentioned their EHG NA compensation
3) Their disclaimer makes no mention of their EHG NA benefit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtu_73V9Jm4

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[TerrierTude]

The vast majority of new buyers will be unaware of his relationship with EHNA. They will either like him or they won't. I suspect low-tech retirees will like him, tech savvy 20 year olds will not.

As for his thousands of YouTube subscribers, what would be the pass through rate to LTV? Will all those zombie-eyed acolytes who swallowed the Roadtrek Kool-aid ditch their rigs and suddenly buy LTV Class B+s? Maybe. Does he have an appeal? He doesn't to me, but that doesn't mean he doesn't appeal to many many other people.

Older people looking to buy their first RV may look at his stumbling "grandpa does tech" delivery and say, "Hey, if he can do it, I can!"

Clearly, LTV thought he was worth considering enough to loan him a rig for the short term. If they take him on, clearly, they think he has an appeal to some segment of the market. So more power to them all.

[TerrierTude]

However, it should be noted, if he's going to be LTV's new brand ambassador, they are going to have to contact Roadtrek and tell them to take off the link to his blog that you get to from the "Join our lifestyle" link. Because it's still up there!!! Would be hilarious if he's shilling for LTV and he's still linked to the Roadtrek site. Hell, that's already happening as the link takes you to where you can see him trashing Roadtrek's insulation and Lithium system.

[TerrierTude]

Aaaaaaaannnnnd. Roadtrek must be monitoring this site. Because as of a few minutes ago, they've expunged him.

[gregmchugh]

I am amazed that people are surprised that they are getting biased information from marketing or public relations people in the RV industry...

[mumkin]

IMHO... EHGNA & Roadtrek are appealing to a totally different demographic than LTV. The younger crowd who are interested in boondocking and National Parks and ski trips... ie the usual Class B demographic... want basically what EHGNA is offering.

LTV appeals mainly to the older crowd who want to downsize from the Class A or 5th Wheel. Want to drag a toad... and generally stay in RV parks with full hook ups.

So... Wendlands are probably the right age group to appeal to the LTV demographic. Except for the fact that LTV can't keep up with current demand, so why bother?

[TerrierTude]

Exactly. Companies with any sort of competent marketing department know exactly who their customers are. If LTV is truly the "I'm grandpa and get off my lawn" Class B, Mike's gonna be perfect.

After all, no company lets someone drive an expensive piece of equipment off the lot if they don't think there is going to be a payback for them down the road.

So this may end up being a better fit for him in the end. And in reality, very few people are going to have any idea of his skeevy past with Roadtrek. He's going to seem like a "just like me" guy for the older set who want to know that this particular rig will work for them. As for his rabid acolytes on the Roadtrekking site, will they suddenly trash those rigs and upgrade to a B+? Who knows. But massive conversion may not be LTV's goal.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Don’t assume I am defending what he has done or is doing in terms of endorsing products and then changing his tune.

I just don’t see the downside to LTV of making him a brand ambassador, I would guess he had a very positive effect for Roadtrek as a brand ambassador. He is definitely going to appeal to the older buyers, not the younger ones.

By not saying pro or con of shilling products I can assume you are defending as you are saying he had a very positive effect for Roadtrek. How so for that positive effect?

The RV Lifestyle group is officially entering the realm of embracing all RVing of which Class Bs are but 2%. So, yes the upside potential is 98% but I am afraid he will not appeal to vanlifers at all old or young Eventually. His out the door shilling LTV's company line on lithium batteries and second alternators will not play well with Class Bers who are the most pioneering group and know the systems work.

If RV Lifestyle becomes a shill for LTV as his old Roadtrek group was he will have fewer groupies. Eventually, RV Lifestyle will be confusing to all with lifestyle questions that don't relate to the differing classes of RVs and people having to sort through the messages. His hope is converting it strictly to a destination place of interest to all RVers.

[markopolo]

According to published reports on sites like RV Business; Roadtrek finished at 36.3% market share in 2012 which is the year the E-trek made its debut with much hoopla on Facebook and YouTube. The larger Hymer/Roadtrek finished 2018 with 28.8% share. One conclusion could be that the marketing efforts failed or at the very least didn't help.

It'll be interesting to see if LTV fairs any better. The company's production is too small to occupy the the top 3 or 4 positions in the stat snippets made publicly available each month so we'll never know.

[Bud]

I think most of us understand what Mike has done and to some extent why, but

What I don't understand was the need to bash and trash roadtrek so early on. Why? Did he think someone like Dean or others at LTV would appreciate that? If he will exaggerate, distort and lie concerning roadtrek for years after being PAID, what will he do with LTV next month if they choose if they choose to pay him off and end the deal with no Unity?

Bud

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Bud

I think most of us understand what Mike has done and to some extent why, but

What I don't understand was the need to bash and trash roadtrek so early on. Why?

Bud

Urban Dictionary Answer
Mack Daddy Mike and his side chick Jen could not bolt from Roadtrek fast enough once their free whip from EHG NA was snatched. Those benjamins LTV put on the table must have rocked brother's mind.

Davydd made it plain...
'If RV Lifestyle becomes a shill for LTV as his old Roadtrek group was he will have fewer groupies. Eventually, RV Lifestyle will be confusing to all with lifestyle questions that don't relate to the differing classes of RV'

Back to our regular programming...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXE_n2q08Yw

[booster]

Originally Posted by Bud

I think most of us understand what Mike has done and to some extent why, but

What I don't understand was the need to bash and trash roadtrek so early on. Why? Did he think someone like Dean or others at LTV would appreciate that? If he will exaggerate, distort and lie concerning roadtrek for years after being PAID, what will he do with LTV next month if they choose if they choose to pay him off and end the deal with no Unity?

Bud

I think everyone needs to realize that Wendland is basically a salesman in his actions, and his "reporter" days are long gone. Sales people tend to not have any real loyalties to what they sell and have few hesitations in trashing the competition. I thing there a lot of people who just can't believe that sales people can be that way, because they wouldn't be comfortable doing that themselves. RV sales people jump from brand to brand without any thoughts of if what they say about each of them is correct or not, IMO.


As for attacking Roadtrek now that they are out, it may not be as surprising as it first appears. While digging out some other information, I ran across a bunch of the posts relating to the etrek AGM issues and early Ecotrek problems, and Wendland was very much in the thick of the push back against anyone saying anything bad or questioning about Roadtre, their products, or about Wendland himself. He was very aggressive then also, it appears. The target has just changed now.


Wendland is a survivor and will likely do whatever he thinks it will take to preserve or improve his situation, and I think that is a bit more than many of us are comfortable with, based on all the comments here.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

By not saying pro or con of shilling products I can assume you are defending as you are saying he had a very positive effect for Roadtrek. How so for that positive effect?
.

Not sure what you are saying?

Mike is doing exactly what I expect him to do now that they clearly have a sour taste in their mouths from the way they exited their relationship with Roadtrek, the facial expressions from Jennifer in the recent video when they mentioned that they had to return the RT van after two months of use made it clear that the departure was not friendly. Mike is doing marketing and PR as a brand ambassador and I don’t expect very much from people doing that in terms of revealing the whole picture of the product they are representing. Would I shill products, no, but what difference does that make? I won’t defend Mike’s actions but I surely understand them.

In terms of a positive effect for Roadtrek from their relationship with Mike, I think Roadtrek got several positive benefits:

Platform for Jim Hammill to connect with customers and potential customers most of whom have a very positive view of Jim as the result of his interactions on Mike’s group and many people bought an RT based on Jim’s interactions with the group.

Wider exposure to Class B vans through Mike’s group probably increased Class B sales for all of the producers.

How many new RT buyers (vs return buyers) resulted from RT supporting Mike? Who knows but the idea that the percentage decline in RT market share was due to Mike Wendland’s activities seems weak when the major cause would seem to be Winnebago ramping up Class B production at the value end of the price range.

You have attended some of the gatherings promoted through Mike’s group and supported by RT in some cases. Another positive effect for RT through access to Mike’s member group. People appreciated the RT support of these gatherings.