What Is An Ambassador?

[avanti]

I'm not understanding this discussion at all. These people are, and long have been, PAID SPOKESPERSONS for a particular brand. This has always been perfectly obvious to me. They are not neutral journalists and I don't see where they have ever pretended to be. Expecting "credibility" from them is kind of like expecting neutral advice about chicken from Colonel Sanders.

No?

[gregmchugh]

I realize that the Wendland’s have zero credibility with some people but keep in mind that among the 20,000 members of the Facebook group, the ones who post are very positive about the group and about Mike and Jennifer specifically. They find the information provided by the Wendland's to be very useful and the group to also be a good site without the typical drama found in a lot of other social media sites...

Maybe not your cup of tea but very well liked by a large group of people...

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

This is all very hilarious.

I don't know who's more fake - Dean, or the Wendlands? Seems like a good fit though.

I'm just glad they have moved on from the Class B game!

Will their fanboys now say Class B van are junk and start buying LTV class C's? We can only hope!

Talk about fake. In his latest live video he called his new LTV the ubiquitous Class B+. Just like this forum...

[Motorbtr]

I am relatively new to the RV world and have been researching our first Class B rig. So I have been reading forums and watching YouTube videos to do research. I came across them when I watched them picking up their new 4x4 Roadtrek at a dealership. To me it looked like a couple purchasing and reviewing their new rig. They never said they bought it nor did they say it was on loan from the manufacturer.

I only casually watch their channel and admit I may have missed something. A while later they mentioned they were without a rig and were searching for a new one. Again as a casual viewer I thought they sold the 4x4 and were considering their next purchase. Then they show up with this last RV, I don’t remember them mentioning it was provided by Roadtrek. It wasn’t until the Roadtrek scandal broke that they specifically discussed the details of their “ambassadorship”.

To be clear I think they are very likable and provide interesting and informative content. It’s obvious they work very hard at what they do. However I feel deceived. To me they walked a fine line portraying actual owners. They are not, they are actors in an infomercial. I have to take anything they say about their loaned rigs as biased marketing info. An ambassador should be an actual owner who may receive some discounts or other perks for promoting the rig they choose to buy. Driving around rigs you never bought for years is a form of employment to me. Again as a casual viewer it is not apparent they were given the rigs and I feel they should make that disclaimer going into to each video.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by avanti

I'm not understanding this discussion at all. These people are, and long have been, PAID SPOKESPERSONS for a particular brand. This has always been perfectly obvious to me.
No?

Sorry but to many (myself included) I could not square how they were constantly trading up perfectly good Roadtreks (given their age). Mike kept referring to himself as a former journalist and I knew of his background.

I never knew about ambassadors (hence the reason I created the original post).


Here is what the SPJ says...
SPJ is the nation’s most broad-based journalism organization, dedicated to encouraging the free practice of journalism.

– Conflicts of interest

PRINCIPLE 3: Advertisers should clearly distinguish advertising, public relations and corporate communications from news and editorial content and entertainment, both online and offline...

If consumers are unaware the “news” or “entertainment” they are viewing actually is advertising, they are being misled and treated unethically.

– American Advertising Federation


Accountability and transparency

PRINCIPLE 4: Advertisers should clearly disclose all material conditions, such as payment or receipt of a free product, affecting endorsements in social and traditional channels, as well as the identity of endorsers, all in the interest of full disclosure and transparency.

– American Advertising Federation

For years I thought they were independent of Roadtrek and had arms-length distance from the company with the occasional invite to Roadtrek events and small gifts.

No restrictions full access to a Roadtrek owned vehicle is a material benefit that was not disclosed for YEARS and was deceptive in hindsight when they referred to the RVs as 'OUR NEW ROADTREK'.

Not a hater but this was clearly deceptive and intentionally misleading on their part

[mumkin]

I've been around the Class B internet crowd since 2004 when I bought my first rig. I had passed through Wendland's websites and youtubes... and always just assumed that he was paid by Roadtrek. It was totally obvious, but I never really researched it... didn't really care. I started reading the Roadtreking Facebook page when I was looking to get a smaller RV. That is when it became clear that it was nothing but a PR site. Then when I purchased one of the first Ecotrek systems that came from the factory and learned that I was merely an unpaid beta tester for a system that did NOT work... and when I went on Roadtreking and asked for help... they just banned me.

Personally it makes no sense for LTV to hire this guy to do promo for a company that has no need. These rigs sell as fast as they can make them... and the wait is still about 9 months to order last I heard.

I love Dean. He is openly and blatantly an employee, salesman, and cheerleader... and a damn nice man... as are all the many people at the factory that I got to know over the 4 years that I owned my Libero. I just wish that they still made a B...

[ponti33602]

Originally Posted by avanti

I'm not understanding this discussion at all. These people are, and long have been, PAID SPOKESPERSONS for a particular brand. This has always been perfectly obvious to me. They are not neutral journalists and I don't see where they have ever pretended to be. Expecting "credibility" from them is kind of like expecting neutral advice about chicken from Colonel Sanders.

No?

Totally agree "yes". They didn't need to tell me their situation for me to form beliefs they had arraingments. I really do not care.

Still, I am new to the RV word (~2-years) and have learned much from many people including the Wendlands. I would never buy anything I didn't fully research and make my own decision.

I once got an idea from the FitRv. I liked the idea, just not the product they were showing. I did my own research and purchased a different product. I still learned from them and appreciated their blog on it.

It is pretty entertaining to look at the 2-sites on Facebook. One has the members praising them and Jim H while they all sell their vans to purchase "B+'s" while the owners group are planning a rally to go to the sentencing this summer and want the Wendlands and Jim H to share a cell.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by ponti33602

It is pretty entertaining to look at the 2-sites on Facebook. One has the members praising them and Jim H while they all sell their vans to purchase "B+'s" while the owners group are planning a rally to go to the sentencing this summer and want the Wendlands and Jim H to share a cell.

Surely you are exaggerating? I've never frequented their sites but goes to show how emotions can run high and people can see the same situation differently.

[ponti33602]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Surely you are exaggerating? I've never frequented their sites but goes to show how emotions can run high and people can see the same situation differently.

LOL...I am not joking...I think those folks feel they have been so loyal on that group that they are simply following that path. My wife likes that site for "trip ideas" mostly but it is entertaining reading both back to back.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by bobojay

Problem with Mike and Jennifer to us is they have zero believability about anything they endorse after the Roadtrek fiasco being that they were and still are with other things, paid endorsers....

The problem I've had with them is that their information baud rate is way too low, and they tend to promote both gender and socioeconomic class stereotypes during the course of being paid endorsers. They both love to hear themselves talk, and the more they can stretch and hype thin content until it screams, the better. And it isn't even their content - it's just recycled general knowledge.

There is, of course, no law that says that every paid endorser ought to approach the gig with a new paradigm in mind - the Wendlands been very successful doing what they do, exactly how they do it. But it does rub me the wrong way that they are more hat than cattle without having the grace to admit it up front.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

The problem I've had with them is that their information baud rate is way too low, and they tend to promote both gender and socioeconomic class stereotypes during the course of being paid endorsers. They both love to hear themselves talk, and the more they can stretch and hype thin content until it screams, the better. And it isn't even their content - it's just recycled general knowledge.

There is, of course, no law that says that every paid endorser ought to approach the gig with a new paradigm in mind - the Wendlands been very successful doing what they do, exactly how they do it. But it does rub me the wrong way that they are more hat than cattle without having the grace to admit it up front.

Yes, you've picked up on the Mike's "journalism" background. Mike spent his career doing the puff peices on local news broadcasts. You know the stuff - car dealership openings, ribbon cutting ceremonies, the christmas parades downtown. You know the stuff. Always positive, never critical. He's taken that to youtube and facebook. More of the same shtick.

My problem with it, besides the info being so dumbed down it's useless to all but the most naive noobs, is the glossing over of real problems because he was getting a check. Did he ever criticize Roadtrek for all the Ecotrek & Voltrek systems that were basically inoperative? Did he ever disclose all the problems Roadtrek was having because they lied about thier tank sizes that were actually installed (much smaller than advertised)? Any product he "reviews" is the greatest thing ever, even though it has obvious limited usefulness or is downright shoddy. I've never seen him vet ANY product - he'll shill for anything that will cut him a check.

Granted, lots of personalities on youtube and facebook have commercial supporters. But most approach it with alot more honesty. Many reviews are unpaid and done as an honest service to their followers. Disclosure comes with it and is made. Pointing out the faults or shortcomings of a product and how it compares to competing products is all part of an honest review - paid or not.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by avanti

I'm not understanding this discussion at all. These people are, and long have been, PAID SPOKESPERSONS for a particular brand. This has always been perfectly obvious to me. They are not neutral journalists and I don't see where they have ever pretended to be. Expecting "credibility" from them is kind of like expecting neutral advice about chicken from Colonel Sanders.

No?

"This has always been perfectly obvious to me." avanti, you failed to ask yourself a question. The question was, I wonder how many folks will buy into this Wendland 'stuff'? If you had, I'll bet you would have estimated well.

Maybe all this is pretty simple, 'Buyer Beware'. Some folks will buy into, well you name it. Heck, I sure would like to cite some stuff folks have bought in to in just this century, but the best stuff will result in you throwing me off the forum.

Bud

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

... Many reviews are unpaid and done as an honest service to their followers. ....

^^ Nicely written, your whole post.

Comment on this part - it frustrates me that peoples' default assumption is that any given poster is shilling similarly - that's part of the impression that people like the Wendlands have left in other peoples' minds.

I intentionally run a non-monetized blog - any Google Ad Sense ROI cannot possibly offset the reputational damage to me that would be associated with monetization. But there are two downsides to my approach:

(1) People simply don't believe me when I'm talking about lithium systems or Lagun tables or Vitrifrigo fridges or whatever, even when I explicitly use the term "non-monetized commentary".

(2) Google strongly drives legitimate web traffic away from my site because they aren't making any money off me - not one dime; in fact, I'm costing them money because they're hosting me via their dinosaur freeware.

So here I am trying to present unbiased commentary (for what little it's worth), and not only is that not celebrated, it's heavily penalized. But hey - nobody said it was a perfect world.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Yes, you've picked up on the Mike's "journalism" background. Mike spent his career doing the puff peices on local news broadcasts. You know the stuff - car dealership openings, ribbon cutting ceremonies, the christmas parades downtown. You know the stuff. Always positive, never critical. He's taken that to youtube and facebook. More of the same shtick.

My problem with it, besides the info being so dumbed down it's useless to all but the most naive noobs, is the glossing over of real problems because he was getting a check. Did he ever criticize Roadtrek for all the Ecotrek & Voltrek systems that were basically inoperative? Did he ever disclose all the problems Roadtrek was having because they lied about thier tank sizes that were actually installed (much smaller than advertised)? Any product he "reviews" is the greatest thing ever, even though it has obvious limited usefulness or is downright shoddy. I've never seen him vet ANY product - he'll shill for anything that will cut him a check.

Granted, lots of personalities on youtube and facebook have commercial supporters. But most approach it with alot more honesty. Many reviews are unpaid and done as an honest service to their followers. Disclosure comes with it and is made. Pointing out the faults or shortcomings of a product and how it compares to competing products is all part of an honest review - paid or not.

I lived in the Detroit area for 33 years and Mike did have a career in journalism including as an investigative reporter for WDIV before he went on to other things, here is a reference to one of his stories...

https://books.google.com/books?id=mf...videos&f=false

Clearly no longer in hard news, does still do not very technical pieces for local TV stations as PC Mike technology reporter...

[RossWilliams]

I am trying to figure out why anyone is criticizing Wedlund for what he doesn't report. He has always focused on their own experience, not some in depth report. He has done a number of pieces on using his class b in winter. They were, as always, focused on the positives. But he didn't fail to report the negatives.

His visit to the Beargrease dog sled race in northern Minnesota is an example. He talks about how well the webasto heater worked, with just a small space heater up front to supplement it. And while he doesn't dwell on it, he mentions that his sprinter didn't start and had to be towed in and warmed up to get it started. (We are talking -20'sF temperatures). So while it was definitely a promo for camping in extreme cold, he didn't ignore the problems.

That is exactly what I would expect from him. There are no sources of information without their biases. Some are just more obvious than others. Wedlund's were pretty obvious and explicit.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

I am trying to figure out why anyone is criticizing Wedlund for what he doesn't report. He has always focused on their own experience, not some in depth report. He has done a number of pieces on using his class b in winter. They were, as always, focused on the positives. But he didn't fail to report the negatives.

His visit to the Beargrease dog sled race in northern Minnesota is an example. He talks about how well the webasto heater worked, with just a small space heater up front to supplement it. And while he doesn't dwell on it, he mentions that his sprinter didn't start and had to be towed in and warmed up to get it started. (We are talking -20'sF temperatures). So while it was definitely a promo for camping in extreme cold, he didn't ignore the problems.

That is exactly what I would expect from him. There are no sources of information without their biases. Some are just more obvious than others. Wedlund's were pretty obvious and explicit.

Probably because when you tout that you have journalist credentials, and as Greg referenced, have some bonafides in your past, then the bar is higher for you, and the expectations of your audience are higher. If you want to be a hack, then that's fine, but don't make claims that you aren't.

[bobojay]

What wincrasher said...

[booster]

I would think some of the displeasure with how Wendlund handled the conflict of interest thing could be from the early days of his website and facebook pages. He was a very hardcore Roadtrek support/defender back then, doing a lot the kicking off of anyone who questioned or complained about anything Roadtrek did or said, and preaching the company line. That period of time was when the very incorrect claims were being made about the original AGM etreks and Roadtrek was pushing back very aggressively against anyone and everyone who questioned them.


Over time he has mellowed a bit, but I don't know if it is because he saw the end of his Roadtrek deal coming, or because it was the right thing to do, but at least now he is much transparent than he was in the beginning.

[snapperdude]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

SWEET!

Although I like "Vegan Dinner Party" better as a channel name...

Wincrasher, I keep trying to read your blog. I get the following:

"Your connection is not private
Attackers might be trying to steal your information from Wincrasher's Travels (for example, passwords, messages, or credit cards). Learn more
NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID"

Any ideas?

[ClassB4Me]

The Tech Guy in Action

What journalistic credentials and bonafides does one have to have to be a journalist covering technology?



How long has he been PC Mike?

I am amazed at his deep knowledge of all things tech /s.

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