What Is An Ambassador?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

……………….. In my view, FitRV is completely transparent and I believe their statements…………………………...

I don’t follow blogs, see little value there but did see evaluation video for cassette toilet by Fitrv and indeed it was transparent but in the negative sense. The time needed to decipher honesty of these reviews dwarfs their values.

I often watch Sony Alpha"ambassadors" reviews, very transparent and very different values. Modern cameras are very complex and ambassadors help customers gaining better understanding of functionalities not to sell another gadget or critique competition.

It is unfortunate we don’t see B class vans packed in cardboard boxes, we would have a lot of unpacking videos

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Time to give an update from the Wendland’s so the haters have something to whine about...

https://rvlifestyle.com/a-week-in-our-new-rv/

https://rvlifestyle.com/disclaimer/

"Presently, we are serving as brand ambassadors for Leisure Travel Vans and driving a coach provided free for our use."

[avanti]

I just don't get the vitriol here. These are people who have achieved a tiny bit of fame (by RV standards, at least). They make efforts to monetize that fame, such as it is. How is this any different from a professional basketball player making paid endorsements for sneakers? Does it really bother you that you can't read the tiny text after the asterisk on your TV screen during Nike commercials? Doesn't it all go without saying?

These folks are not my cup of tea--to the extent that I don't think I have ever made it all the way through one of their videos. But I honestly don't see what they are doing wrong, by 21st century capitalist America standards.

[n3ix]

Originally Posted by avanti

I But I honestly don't see what they are doing wrong, by 21st century capitalist America standards.

That seems like a very low bar.

[mrshowtime3]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

https://rvlifestyle.com/disclaimer/

"Presently, we are serving as brand ambassadors for Leisure Travel Vans and driving a coach provided free for our use."

But they took a picture in front of La Mesa RV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They would never lie to us!!!!!!!!!!!

Basically, most people are easy marks. That is the kind of people the Wendlands appeal to.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by n3ix

That seems like a very low bar.

I suppose I agree. But it seems like a fair standard to apply in this case.

[gregmchugh]

Of all the things you can find fault with in the world, no matter what your beliefs, I can’t understand making a big deal out of the Wendland’s. You don’t like them, I get it. But aren’t there more important things to get disturbed about than what they are doing that you don’t like?

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

https://rvlifestyle.com/disclaimer/

"Presently, we are serving as brand ambassadors for Leisure Travel Vans and driving a coach provided free for our use."

If you bothered to read to the bottom of the page, you would see that page was last updated on Feb 11, 2019. At that time they were using the Wonder that they were lent. So on Feb 11, it was true. They no longer have it because they purchased the Unity. They haven't yet updated the page...

Why in the heck would they lie about it? They are not stupid...

I personally doubt that LTV will ever give them a free rig like RT did for so many years. RT needed the marketing, LTV doesn't.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by mumkin

If you bothered to read to the bottom of the page, you would see that page was last updated on Feb 11, 2019. At that time they were using the Wonder that they were lent. So on Feb 11, it was true. They no longer have it because they purchased the Unity. They haven't yet updated the page...

Why in the heck would they lie about it? They are not stupid...

I personally doubt that LTV will ever give them a free rig like RT did for so many years. RT needed the marketing, LTV doesn't.

I don’t think it would surprising if LTV did give them a great price maybe below what the average person could get but clearly not a freebie like their 5 or so Roadtreks they had in the past.

I still don’t get the animosity towards them but it is what it is....

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I still don’t get the animosity towards them but it is what it is....

They did play a large role in tricking people into buying expensive Class Bs with defective electrical systems. And then they participated in the coverup when people needed help or wanted to warn others.

Surely that's worthy of some animosity?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by B Eventually

They did play a large role in tricking people into buying expensive Class Bs with defective electrical systems. And then they participated in the coverup when people needed help or wanted to warn others.

Surely that's worthy of some animosity?

I would contend that Roadtrek Management & Marketing and Sales personnel were the major players in overselling the electrical systems. Mike was a bit player in this. Look at how many vans were sold and how many of those buyers were actually members of Mike’s groups at the time, I expect the majority of the buyers were not even aware of Mike when they bought their van.

The owners groups started up quickly when the issues with the electrical systems happened and owners or potential owners could find out about it there if they were on Facebook.

I think you are overestimating the influence of Mikes group on overall sales, the majority of Roadtrek buyers were not getting info there or probably anywhere on social media.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I would contend that Roadtrek Management & Marketing and Sales personnel were the major players in overselling the electrical systems. Mike was a bit player in this. Look at how many vans were sold and how many of those buyers were actually members of Mike’s groups at the time, I expect the majority of the buyers were not even aware of Mike when they bought their van.

The owners groups started up quickly when the issues with the electrical systems happened and owners or potential owners could find out about it there if they were on Facebook.

I think you are overestimating the influence of Mikes group on overall sales, the majority of Roadtrek buyers were not getting info there or probably anywhere on social media.

So you agree, just differing over the degree of animosity that was earned by the Wendlands.

[avanti]

Do you expect the "non-attorney spokespersons" on the TV ads to be reliable sources for the quality of the asbestos litigation lawyers who hired them as barkers? This is crazy talk.

These people are advertising professionals--nothing more. We have the right to expect disclosure, but that is about it.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by avanti

Do you expect the "non-attorney spokespersons" on the TV ads to be reliable sources for the quality of the asbestos litigation lawyers who hired them as barkers? This is crazy talk.

These people are advertising professionals--nothing more. We have the right to expect disclosure, but that is about it.

Agree, disclosure that what they say may not be the truth, will not be the truth at times.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Do you expect the "non-attorney spokespersons" on the TV ads to be reliable sources for the quality of the asbestos litigation lawyers who hired them as barkers? This is crazy talk.

These people are advertising professionals--nothing more. We have the right to expect disclosure, but that is about it.

While I totally understand and agree with the logic of this, I do think there is also a bit of difference with whole Wendland and Roadtrek issue we have seen. While there certainly is little reason to believe that either the Wendlands or Roadtrek would be telling the truth about their products, I do think that their whole reaction to any type of questioning of those mistatements was out of line with all the personal attacks and retaliations against anyone who would dare to question the false narrative, especially when those attacked were customers who bought the products based on the bad information. To me, it was quite remarkable how they were able to hide and stifle as much of the negative or questioning about Roadtrek by creating the core of vocal and aggressive defenders.

[avanti]

For completeness: Actual "false advertising" is against the law, at least in interstate commerce (Lanham Act). However, the statutes and courts provide wide latitude for many kinds of exaggeration, which is known in legal circles as "puffery". The line is pretty fuzzy.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by booster

While I totally understand and agree with the logic of this, I do think there is also a bit of difference with whole Wendland and Roadtrek issue we have seen. While there certainly is little reason to believe that either the Wendlands or Roadtrek would be telling the truth about their products, I do think that their whole reaction to any type of questioning of those mistatements was out of line with all the personal attacks and retaliations against anyone who would dare to question the false narrative, especially when those attacked were customers who bought the products based on the bad information. To me, it was quite remarkable how they were able to hide and stifle as much of the negative or questioning about Roadtrek by creating the core of vocal and aggressive defenders.

Sounds like 'Collusion' to me, Hammill and the Wendlands were into telling the lies together, then the cover up together .............. I suppose that the reason the Wendlands were not walked off the roadtrek premises, well, they just did not happen to be there at the time. So they reacted by trashing etreks, then throwing roadtrek under an etrek! But wait, they were close with roadtrek employees as I recall.

Yet, this is ordinary behavior for some.

[Davydd]

The Wendlands now own a Class C with a slide even. Their Facebook group now embraces all types of RVs and is confusing to read and sort out the chaff for anything relevant to Class Bs. I've gone to a few of Mike's Winter Freezeouts in the UP and have got to know Mike and Jennifer. They are wonderful, sincere, enthusiastic people and somewhat humble away from the Internet. Mike is a reporter and a good one but he got caught up with Roadtrek way too much including usurping Class B traveling with Roadtreking which irked me somewhat. That was a structural mistake at the beginning that got out of hand, IMO. RVLifestyle is a correction but too far to be relevant any longer to us Class Bers. The Roadtrek scandal broke at the last Winter Freezeout. I was thinking Mike was shocked as anyone though he maybe knew something was afoot as he emphasized the Winter Freezeout was no longer sponsored by Roadtrek beforehand.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Bud

So you agree, just differing over the degree of animosity that was earned by the Wendlands.

Yes, the poor design, testing, and manufacturing of these systems is all on Roadtrek along with the marketing and sales which then extended to the follow on brands after the Hymer deal.

Were there dedicated owner enthusiasts who believed in the company and didn’t want to believe the negative reports, plenty of them including those who were getting financial benefit for actual PR activities. But this is pretty common for lots of products, a cult following that resists anything negative.

I agree with Booster that the reaction of Jim Hammill to the “armchair engineers” pointing out the major issues was totally uncalled for, especially since they were correct in their assessments. But again, the animosity should be directed at Jim and the company, not at the enthusiasts who believed Jim and his marketing BS.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by B Eventually

They did play a large role in tricking people into buying expensive Class Bs with defective electrical systems. And then they participated in the coverup when people needed help or wanted to warn others.

Surely that's worthy of some animosity?

I fully agree, but it was mainly on their FB page, which was obviously a P/R page to push sales. Hammill was there at all hours of the day and night banging the drum. And then Wendland's groupie moderators would quickly ban anyone who mentioned an issue.

The key word is "some." Being one of the first to get caught in the EcoTrek web of lithium battery fantasy in 2015 (gotta take part of the blame myself) that on further thought sounded too good to be true... and was. But my animosity was mainly on JH. He had to know that the system wasn't ready for prime time and that they hadn't a clue how to do a restart when they shut down which they all did rather quickly. I doubt that the Wendland's had a clue on that issue (or even Campskunk). Their job was just to manage the PR for which they had a free rig. Good for them.