What Choices Are There For No-Propane Class B's?

[BBQ]

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No Onan generator

No propane

!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrMDQOOnpAg

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by NorthPotomac

Well, since I began this thread I've learned a lot, both from the thread postings and from elsewhere.

My research has led me to be VERY wary of quality issues in the Roadtrek propane-free models (whether they be of the Zion or Sprinter varieties -- not sure whether Hymer will be vulnerable to this). That leaves only Advanced RV, which I (like many of you) find to cost more than I'm willing to pay. So I'm now leaning toward Pleasure-Way, which has Lithium-Ion but also Propane, and doesn't seem to have had the multiple quality control issues that pepper the web apropos Roadtrek.

I also wonder about the Roadtrek reliability with the fancy etrek models. We are currently looking at a RT Agile build with no propane (Diesel Alde, Underhood generator, small solar, and AGM's).Our use case is less boondocking (we will be plugged in 99% of the time) with also using the van as a day base camp.

From the research and owner discussions I have had I believe the RT Sprinter quality problems (Zion based vans have a whole bunch of other issues) stem around the etrek options. Specifically, the volt start and lithium batteries. Also, it appears that the dealer network is still not up to speed on how to service those options. The AGM batteries, and underhood generators appear to be reliable from what I have learned. I am taking a risk with the new Alde diesel heat option, but it sounds like vans since 2015 onward are fine (2014 vans had issues with the design of the installations). A lot of owners report in that they love the Alde system and that it is very quiet.

That being said... if other companies (WGO, etc.) made RV's on a short Sprinter I would seriously consider them. PW does make the Ascent 144 based RV, but their front seats don't swivel and my wife really hates suburban propane heater noise... so RT or custom are our choices.

I know ARV would make a 144 based RV for us... maybe I should contact them for a quote but the lead time is similar to a custom build and way too long for our needs... Maybe I will be able to give you info on the RT reliability.

[NorthPotomac]

Originally Posted by Keyne

That being said... if other companies (WGO, etc.) made RV's on a short Sprinter I would seriously consider them. PW does make the Ascent 144 based RV, but their front seats don't swivel and my wife really hates suburban propane heater noise... so RT or custom are our choices.

PW advertises a totally quiet heater in their 2017 models. Check out their YouTube video on 2017 changes. I do think the passenger seat swivels. Our real problem with the PW Ascent is that there is no work space up front. PW has only one Lithium battery, not 2 like the E-trek models, but I have heard zero reports of failure with PW Lithium rigs.

Originally Posted by Keyne

I know ARV would make a 144 based RV for us... maybe I should contact them for a quote but the lead time is similar to a custom build and way too long for our needs... Maybe I will be able to give you info on the RT reliability.

It's about a year's lead time for ARV, and realistically prices start at 200K -- plus, ARV's shorter model ("Ocean") is 22 feet long, not 19 feet long. They do not work on the short wheelbase Sprinters, as far as I know.

I hope you do report back on your purchase. Thanks in advance.

[gregmchugh]

Advanced RV is currently assessing the feasibility of building on the short Sprinter and it may become an option...

[BobB]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

No Onan generator

No propane

!!!

Heard "No Onan..." but where do they say "no propane"? Still has the Dometic 3 way fridge (yes, you can run on 12V, but extremely inefficient in that mode) and the Truma uses propane, too.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by NorthPotomac

... PW has only one Lithium battery, not 2 like the E-trek models, but I have heard zero reports of failure with PW Lithium rigs.
::

The 2016 has 200AH Lithium batteries.

The 2017 has 400AH Lithium batteries.

[NorthPotomac]

Originally Posted by BBQ

The 2016 has 200AH Lithium batteries.

The 2017 has 400AH Lithium batteries.

[Edited]: I have the 2017 catalog. It says all PW's come with "dual 100AH Eco-Ion Lithium Batteries"

That makes 200AH, right?

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by NorthPotomac

[Edited]: I have the 2017 catalog. It says all PW's come with "dual 100AH Eco-Ion Lithium Batteries"

That makes 200AH, right?

I think you better give them a call.
The catalogs might not be up to date.

[NorthPotomac]

I'll add that I've seen (twice! the video about PW's changes for 2017, and they don't mention doubling the size of the Eco-Ion batteries.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

No Onan generator

No propane

!!!

I wondered about that "no propane" so I posted the question on FitRV. James' response was:

"I do have my eye on a compressor fridge. I have a feeling it will happen eventually.
That will leave us with just the Truma using Propane. We’ll be keeping that – it works too well, there’s no easy gasoline powered alternative, and electric there would be pretty expensive. So when I said “all electric”, I probably should have said “almost all electric”."

[Marley]

Originally Posted by BobB

I wondered about that "no propane" so I posted the question on FitRV. James' response was:

"I do have my eye on a compressor fridge. I have a feeling it will happen eventually.
That will leave us with just the Truma using Propane. We’ll be keeping that – it works too well, there’s no easy gasoline powered alternative, and electric there would be pretty expensive. So when I said “all electric”, I probably should have said “almost all electric”."

Good reason to go diesel ...?

[BobB]

Originally Posted by Marley

Good reason to go diesel ...?

Maybe, maybe not. Diesel comes with its own set of pros and cons.

You still need the electric, so on top of the solar and large battery banks, and to have diesel for heat, that choice assumes you have a diesel engine (with tank) so you have a fuel source for the heat. And the upcharge for a diesel engine is not cheap.

[avanti]

Our van came with a propane system that only supports an Onan genset and a cooktop (our Rixen's diesel Espar unit takes care of heat and hot water). I have since added a second engine alternator, so the Onan is now kind of belt-and-suspenders. I keep going back and forth on whether to just remove it for the sake of weight savings. If I do so, I would probably leave the propane tank just for the sake of the cooktop. IMO, a two burner propane stove is better than an induction cooktop, unless you have a ridiculously large battery. Even then, I'm not sure. But I see no great motivation to pull the existing propane tank. The tank is full and will probably last us the life of the van.

That said, we don't use the cooktop all that much, so if I were starting over, I doubt I would include propane.

[Marley]

Originally Posted by BobB

Maybe, maybe not. Diesel comes with its own set of pros and cons.

You still need the electric, so on top of the solar and large battery banks, and to have diesel for heat, that choice assumes you have a diesel engine (with tank) so you have a fuel source for the heat. And the upcharge for a diesel engine is not cheap.

I have a GMC Sierra DuraMax diesel 2500HD and a new Sierra 1500 gas small block V8. Have taken them both on trips down the I-15 recently and the DuraMax still amazes me as it cruises at 80mph, gets 22mpg and doesn't even shift down on the big mountain passes. The turbo really helps too. Gas V8 is great until it is trailering or otherwise loaded.

If I am going to spend up to $130k on an RV, I would like to come as close to having just diesel and electric for everything (but don't want to be a tester for the technology).

[tgregg]

Originally Posted by BobB

Maybe, maybe not. Diesel comes with its own set of pros and cons.

You still need the electric, so on top of the solar and large battery banks, and to have diesel for heat, that choice assumes you have a diesel engine (with tank) so you have a fuel source for the heat. And the upcharge for a diesel engine is not cheap.

We have a diesel cooktop and a diesel furnace in our gasoline engine equipped Promaster.

We've used diesel appliances in different campers for 12 years and don't see any cons. We wouldn't trade them for anything else.

Although the timer feature on induction cooktops so you can't forget to turn them off is a very attractive feature as we age.

But the upcharge for Lithium batteries and an inverter are not currently cheap.

[Marley]

Originally Posted by tgregg

We have a diesel cooktop and a diesel furnace in our gasoline engine equipped Promaster.

We've used diesel appliances in different campers for 12 years and don't see any cons. We wouldn't trade them for anything else.

Although the timer feature on induction cooktops so you can't forget to turn them off is a very attractive feature as we age.

But the upcharge for Lithium batteries and an inverter are not currently cheap.

I guess I'm looking at this as a new buyer and if there is a choice of 'Good, Better, Better-Than-Better and Best' then I'm thinking Better-Than-Better as my pick. Some brands are going Diesel/Electric and I think that is the future in B style.

Or I buy an old Chevy van and go super simple...then I would only need a single bed!

[BBQ]

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I know a few RVer who have not refilled their propane tank in 4+ yrs.

When they temperature drops, they stay home.

When they are out, they eat out, shower at the camp...

They do BBQ, but that uses minimal LPG.

[booster]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

I know a few RVer who have not refilled their propane tank in 4+ yrs.

When they temperature drops, they stay home.

When they are out, they eat out, shower at the camp...

They do BBQ, but that uses minimal LPG.

That would be us for the most part. Compressor frig, so no use there. We do use the gas grill almost every day, so that is our biggest use, rarely have the water heater on.

Our late fall trip last year got us in some colder weather, so it was the first time we have used the furnace much. We were glad that we had moved to the "quiet" model, which isn't all that quiet, but at least sleepable. In a month, we still didn't use much over 1/8 tank of propane.

[Davydd]

As I mentioned before, we are propaneless with our current RV. Go back to the beginning of this thread for more. But when we had our two previous Bs we did have propane and rarely used much. We may have filled the 9 gallon tank about once a year and we did that locally with a company that knew what they were doing.

The biggest use of propane is running an Onan generator if you have a diesel powered B. We rarely ran the Onan. We used our Suburban propane heater only in the morning when waking up even down into 20 degree temperatures and we used propane hot water only when we needed it with about a 20 minute wait for hot water. Our Onan use usually was confined to brewing the morning coffee for about 15 minutes. We might have run it longer if we felt we needed to charge our batteries or felt we should take the opportunity to ascribe to an exercise protocol. I'm still not sure that was necessary with propane.

Getting back to those cold nights without heat, one time 18 degrees in Leadville, CO. We had 20 degree rated sleeping bags and it was great sleeping. Sweat pants and hoodies helped. We still had 40 years of tent camping imprinting to help.

[gregmchugh]

My understanding is that excercising a propane Onan is still needed for the mechanical components of the electrical generator maybe not so much for the engine.