Wander on highway

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by KurtFranz

Gee this has really gone down the rabbit hole... All of this started when the rims were changed right?

That would be so simple, it would be the rims. Posted a printout of my last alignment and a knowledgeable man on another forum stated that just looking at the #'s they would cause the wandering. Also a few articles on the net about camber and caster causing the wandering. I will be getting an alignment tomorrow from an alignment specialist who stated they are not easy to align and take a long time to get right.

So if I do not have to buy new tires or rims I will make a decision on the rear springs!

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

That would be so simple, it would be the rims. Posted a printout of my last alignment and a knowledgeable man on another forum stated that just looking at the #'s they would cause the wandering. Also a few articles on the net about camber and caster causing the wandering. I will be getting an alignment tomorrow from an alignment specialist who stated they are not easy to align and take a long time to get right.

So if I do not have to buy new tires or rims I will make a decision on the rear springs!

Just on the slight chance that it is the rims, slip the guy an extra $10 or $20 and have read the alignment, then raise the camper, rotate the wheels 180*, and then re-read the alignment. If the numbers change much, you have a rim problem.

Good luck, Dick

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by dicktill

Just on the slight chance that it is the rims, slip the guy an extra $10 or $20 and have read the alignment, then raise the camper, rotate the wheels 180*, and then re-read the alignment. If the numbers change much, you have a rim problem.

Good luck, Dick

There is a new idea!

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

There is a new idea!

That will give you an idea about bent wheels but probably not out of round. New idea for me also as I have always heard of the checks being done on a spin balancing spindle. I don't think you have either because you haven't mentioned any shimmy or shake issues.


You probably could have them also measure the track width and compared it to the factory specifications as that will allow you see if and how much the offset is incorrect

[jjrbus]

Alignment seemed ok on streets, tried the highway and too windy to make any judgement. Guy showed me what he was doing on the alignment screen, one of the adjustments is maxed out so had to balance the numbers out. I am sure he is competent and did the best he could. He did say new coil springs and control arms would change things he could get it spot on.

[IMG][/IMG]

[jjrbus]

Nice calm morning so took the RT for a ride on the interstate. It is fine up to about 50, 60 and 70 is the best it is ever been but I am not happy with it. Something else needs to be done. I am thinking if it is good at 50 then the tires and rims are unlikely the issue.

It was suggested on another forum to elongate the slots for the upper control arm bolts, will talk to the alignment guy about that.

In the meantime I am prepping for replacing the rear springs. Black water tank had to be removed. Color me surprised it was not a nightmare to remove! Took me all day I got a late start, I am old and slow, easily distracted and take lots of breaks

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Nice calm morning so took the RT for a ride on the interstate. It is fine up to about 50, 60 and 70 is the best it is ever been but I am not happy with it. Something else needs to be done. I am thinking if it is good at 50 then the tires and rims are unlikely the issue.

It was suggested on another forum to elongate the slots for the upper control arm bolts, will talk to the alignment guy about that.

In the meantime I am prepping for replacing the rear springs. Black water tank had to be removed. Color me surprised it was not a nightmare to remove! Took me all day I got a late start, I am old and slow, easily distracted and take lots of breaks

Before you elongate the hole on the frame you should look at the cams and see what they are pushing on to move the arm and if they would lose contact with that surface. Just bolts going through slots can easily move from impacts like suspension parts generate. I have seen the holes for the lower arms elongated and then welded up in the area the bolt moved from so just like the hole was in a different place and well supported.

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by booster

Before you elongate the hole on the frame you should look at the cams and see what they are pushing on to move the arm and if they would lose contact with that surface. Just bolts going through slots can easily move from impacts like suspension parts generate. I have seen the holes for the lower arms elongated and then welded up in the area the bolt moved from so just like the hole was in a different place and well supported.

Interesting and something I would never have thought of. Thank you.

[jjrbus]

GM parts giant could not verify their spring is an 8 leaf only that it fits my van. There cost for springs, bolts, u bolts shackles and such was $720.25 delivered without the tax. However the shipping is "estimated" so not chiseled in stone.

Online Chevy store is 775.74 without sales tax, they do not have the 8 nuts in stock for the U bolts. Plus they show a 8 leaf spring on their site. Actual price was bit higher, 912.64 but they have a 15% discount going this year. I have to pick up at the Chevy dealer. However if anything is not correct I simply take it back to the dealer and no concern about return shipping.

The springs I ordered are # 84205631 That is for my 2002 Chevy Cutaway 3500 Roadtrek 200 Popular.




https://parts.chevrolet.com/

[jjrbus]

Took a bit to figure all this out. These springs are heavy! The spring is refereed to as an 8 leaf RV spring for my class B. [IMG][/IMG]

[jjrbus]

84205631 leaf spring @2 281.41 562.82

23286142 spring shackle @2 43.56 87.12

11612075 U bolt @4 16.04 64.16

11513937 spring bolt @4 9.15 36.60

11612281 spring bolt @2 5.33 10.66

Total $761.36
Minus 15% $114.19
Pay $647.16

Plus tax and free shipping.

[Photog]

Not much arch in those leaves. Looks like very little room for suspension travel. May cause a rough ride.
I am interested to see how this works out, as I need rear leaves for my RT 190.

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by Photog

Not much arch in those leaves. Looks like very little room for suspension travel. May cause a rough ride.
I am interested to see how this works out, as I need rear leaves for my RT 190.

I was just skipping through your raise and noticed that your valves are now 8 inch off the ground. I have a 02 Express Cut Away 3500 200 Popular and hard to get a measurement at the moment but I have more than 8" with no mods!

The jury is still out on the springs as I have only drove it on the street. Disappointed, I have very little height increase 1/2" at most, I expected 1-1 1/2 inch. It does seem to have less bounce. Pulling the tanks is a big pain. Suspect adding a leaf or 2 might be the way to go, but still leaves the 20+ year old bushings which were pretty beat!

I need to get the tanks in and fill to get some weight in and take on the highway, will let you know.

New springs, old springs, air springs, it rides like a truck because it is a truck.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

I was just skipping through your raise and noticed that your valves are now 8 inch off the ground. I have a 02 Express Cut Away 3500 200 Popular and hard to get a measurement at the moment but I have more than 8" with no mods!

The jury is still out on the springs as I have only drove it on the street. Disappointed, I have very little height increase 1/2" at most, I expected 1-1 1/2 inch. It does seem to have less bounce. Pulling the tanks is a big pain. Suspect adding a leaf or 2 might be the way to go, but still leaves the 20+ year old bushings which were pretty beat!

I need to get the tanks in and fill to get some weight in and take on the highway, will let you know.

New springs, old springs, air springs, it rides like a truck because it is a truck.

I will go back to where I started. If you want some lift, without getting it rougher, maybe ever smoother, put in the air bags. You can easily get you 1.5 inches of lift with them or anything less and maybe a bit more.


We have actually removed the big overload leaf, and several others have since, in our non cutaway versions of Chevies and ride no with about half the weight on the bags. The ride for us, and the others, got very much smoother ans quieter.


Trying to reduce rocking and sway with springs is tough because by the time you get them stiff enough to make a decent benefit the ride will probably get horribly rough. Reducing sway and rocking, plus cornering lean, is what sway bars are made for.

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by booster

I will go back to where I started. If you want some lift, without getting it rougher, maybe ever smoother, put in the air bags. You can easily get you 1.5 inches of lift with them or anything less and maybe a bit more.


We have actually removed the big overload leaf, and several others have since, in our non cutaway versions of Chevies and ride no with about half the weight on the bags. The ride for us, and the others, got very much smoother ans quieter.


Trying to reduce rocking and sway with springs is tough because by the time you get them stiff enough to make a decent benefit the ride will probably get horribly rough. Reducing sway and rocking, plus cornering lean, is what sway bars are made for.

The suspension person was very insistent that I put 10 leaf springs in, seems knowledgeable and has good reputation. Thing rides bad enough without adding 2 leafs! Plus my gross weight is 8100 lbs and my GVWR is 9500 so I see no need to upgrade.
http://www.thealignmentguy.net/

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

The suspension person was very insistent that I put 10 leaf springs in, seems knowledgeable and has good reputation. Thing rides bad enough without adding 2 leafs! Plus my gross weight is 8100 lbs and my GVWR is 9500 so I see no need to upgrade.
The Alignment Guy | Cape Coral, FL

I have been saying there might not be a need to upgrade the springs at all if you put in air bags, so I don't know why you are telling me that you don't want to.


Put new bushings and shackles onto your existing springs and airbags to get some lift, and you may be much better off than you are.


Spring design is much more than how many leaves they have in them. An 8 leaf spring can be much firmer than a 10 leaf depending on how the rest of the parameters are set.



But remember, going too stiff on springs to address sway and rocking will make it all worse for ride.


People that sell springs will nearly always tell you not to use airbags because springs are better. They make a bunch on springs, but not near as much on airbags, if they even do them. We hear that all the time on the forum.

[jjrbus]

Alignment guy was fairly good, we discussed adding leaves, air springs, removing and replacing all the leafs except the one attached to the frame and replacing. Replacing all the leaves except the one attached to the frame would have cut down on labor but left the old bushings in place. He was upfront about making 25% on parts.

I did not spend much time looking at air springs they do not seem to fit non boxed frame which the Cut Away has.

https://www.airliftcompany.com/vehic...ess-2500/2001/

[jjrbus]

Got out on the highway today ride is noticeably different, less bounce when hitting bumps and less wander. But still wanders more than I care for. NOt sure what to try next?

I did measure the black valve it is just about 10 1/2" clearance. Did not measure before new springs.

[jjrbus]

Was trying to figure what to try next. Van does not wander on the streets only on highway above 55 mph. Multiple mechanics have told me front end is tight and should not be causing problems. When I bought it had 10 year old tires, OE steel rims and OE shocks, it ran straight and true. Since buying I have replaced the rims with aluminum, shocks with KYB gas adjust and tires with Bridgestone V Steel LT245 75R 16 and run at recommended PSI. Nothing I replaced was an instant problem.

In the meantime I have been watching for some OE steel rims and tires, much harder to find than I thought they would be. Yesterday I found 4 off a Chevy 3500 van and bought them for $25 ea, now looking for some used tires to see if the tires and wheels are causing the wandering. I did have the tires road force balanced recently and they reported no issues.

[KurtFranz]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Was trying to figure what to try next. Van does not wander on the streets only on highway above 55 mph. Multiple mechanics have told me front end is tight and should not be causing problems. When I bought it had 10 year old tires, OE steel rims and OE shocks, it ran straight and true. Since buying I have replaced the rims with aluminum, shocks with KYB gas adjust and tires with Bridgestone V Steel LT245 75R 16 and run at recommended PSI. Nothing I replaced was an instant problem.

In the meantime I have been watching for some OE steel rims and tires, much harder to find than I thought they would be. Yesterday I found 4 off a Chevy 3500 van and bought them for $25 ea, now looking for some used tires to see if the tires and wheels are causing the wandering. I did have the tires road force balanced recently and they reported no issues.

Wind possibly