Wander on highway

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Picture above is the driverside. These shops annoying don't know who to believe anymore. This is a brand new shop of a chain. Think they would have their best and brightest on duty.

When I get the new kits in I don't know if I should go back for the free alignment or look for someone less incompetent.

That would appear then to be the rearward leg of the upper arm, which would be pushed all the way in for maximum caster, unless of course that is too much to get the camber correct.


Try to find out who is servicing the delivery trucks in your area. UPS and Fedex probably do their own but there are lots of other delivery and trademan trucks out there. They would be more used to working on old school stuff, most likely.

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by booster

That would appear then to be the rearward leg of the upper arm, which would be pushed all the way in for maximum caster, unless of course that is too much to get the camber correct.


Try to find out who is servicing the delivery trucks in your area. UPS and Fedex probably do their own but there are lots of other delivery and trademan trucks out there. They would be more used to working on old school stuff, most likely.

This does not look right and common sense tells me the punch out needs to be removed so I need to ask an adult! Passenger side punch out nearest the firewall is out.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

This does not look right and common sense tells me the punch out needs to be removed so I need to ask an adult! Passenger side punch out nearest the firewall is out.

It even kind of looks like someone beat on it but couldn't get it out. Time to buy the not very expensive removal tool for the shop, maybe.



Be aware you do not want to take the bolts all the way out of the upper control arm without compressing the leaf spring first to take the load off the lower arm and frame.


Even though the upper arm carries no real weight load, it is the for and aft stabilizing force to keep the balljoint and the attached to it knuckle in place. Some say you do it if you support the lower control arm in a way that it can allow the knuckle to move, but others say that the spring can still get out that way. I am not sure which way it is, but I have seen experienced front end guys do it that way, even removing springs with balljoint separated so they can lower the lower arm enough to pull the spring out (this only works with stock springs that are the correct length ot do that, if they are longer by even 1/4" they may still fly out or you won't be able to pull them out or put them back in). A coil spring popping out can potentially do a lot of damage to your body. Personally, when I do remove either of the arms or the spring, I compress it first and take it out in the compressor.

[jjrbus]

Thanks much appreciated. I was 95% sure the tab needed to come out so ordered the tool. INternet is not a lot of help with this. Big thanks on the spring warning, it looks like I will have to undo both sides of the control arm to get the tool in place, not sure yet.

[jjrbus]

Looks like it would be a pain to get spring compressors in there. Service manual says use compressors or chain the spring to the control arm. I have strong tow chain I will use.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Looks like it would be a pain to get spring compressors in there. Service manual says use compressors or chain the spring to the control arm. I have strong tow chain I will use.

You are probably looking at the type of compressor that uses hooks on the outside of the spring. You put one on each side. There isn't much room for them, and they probably won't be able to compress the spring anyway.


The designated compressor uses a threaded rod that goes up through the lower control arm and engages two discs that sit inside the spring and push it together as the not on the bottom of the compressor is turned. They are prowerful and don't slip off like the outside ones do. They are also expensive but you can rent them.


Using a chain won't keep the spring from coming out, but will keep it from going very far if it is tied to something solid. Remove the shock and thread it through the spring and back to solid connection somewhere. It think you could also use a ratchet strap of high quality but it would have the mass to help stop the spring just tension.

[jjrbus]

Reading about the spring compressors, is why I want to chain the spring to the control arm. The hooks on the external compressors do not appear to be large enough for the heavier springs and unlikely I could compress the spring with them.

Internal compressors just take more work and it is mentioned when using compressors to also chain the spring to be double safe in case the compresser fails.

Punchout tool has been shipped, should be here today. Cheapest one on Amazon, what could go wrong?https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CGWP9JCX...roduct_details

[jjrbus]

Can't anything be easy?? There are center and offset punch's. I of course ordered the center punch. The offset is not so available and more money!

A necessary tool for removing the alignment inserts on the upper control arm alignment brackets without damaging the bracket. The center punch is for 1988 - 1997 GM vehicles and the offset punch is for 1998 and up GM vehicles and some 1996 and 1997 GM vehicles.

[jjrbus]

Just posting to whine, New cam kit NAPA 264-3624 does not look anywhere near the quality of the old kit, cams are stamped out of steel, old ones are machined. Old bolts are tapered on end to easily fit in hole, not the new ones.

New cams do not fit in brackets!! Back to store.

Think because I found the inserts still in place and removed I will reinstall the old cam kit and get on with life.

[jjrbus]

Drove the inserts out with hammer and large screwdriver, awkward to do but not a bad job. Booster made me nervous so rented the internal spring compressor!

Got all 4 tabs out, no idea where the 4th one went? Discs on new kit did not fit properly so took them back and reinstalled old kit. The difference in the quality of the kits was night and day! Ready to buckle up and go for alignment. [IMG][/IMG]

[jjrbus]

Long story I will do the highlights. Managed to get the RT back together and back for the free alignment. On the rack and the guy working on it for awhile 45 minutes and they tell me it is ready so I ask for a copy of the printout. I look at it and looks no better than last time! Wait a minute the camber and caster are still way out.

Manager goes and talks to tech, tech asks for keys and apologizes and says I did know it had a kit installed. So about an hour later manager tells me the cam kit is maxed out and I must need a new kit. Nope there is nothing wrong with the kit I respond. Manager tells me that I will need to take it to a specialist alignment shop. Where will I find a specialist shop? He gives me 2 suggestions. Talking with tech on the way out and he tells me that is where he takes his car! He has a lowered, hopped up Charger. Seems odd the alignment tech did not see the kit and takes his car to another shop, oh well.

Stop at first suggested shop, one man shop, place is out of the way in an industrial park that most would never find. Told him tire store sent me. Man seems very knowledgeable, looks at the RT after I filled him in and states they have no idea what they are doing and explains why they cannot get it into alignment, complete with demonstration on cam kit. Spent a bit of time talking about ride height, springs, worn control arm bushings etc. Have an appointment with him next wed to for him to diagnose. Will post what happens.

TRied to make image larger, now working for me.

[IMG][/IMG]

[KurtFranz]

I recently purchased a set of front and rear Bilstein shocks with the intent of installing them myself. Changed my mind and took the van to Callaghan Tire in Bradenton, FL. They installed the shocks nicely for me in addition to performing a front wheel alignment. I had a bad case of negative camber on the driver side and a bit on the passenger side. The tech told me that he was not able to get this adjusted correctly unless he removed the knock outs, which would take more time which I did not have at the time. He told me that he had to remove the upper control arms to get the knock outs removed and also suggested that I might want to replace both of the upper control arms as the new ones include the ball joint and fresh bushings - mine are original as were the shocks. The shop has no issue installing pre purchased components and charges reasonable rates for their work. He told me that until I get the negative camber corrected I should make certain to regularly rotate the tires. Otherwise perfectly safe to drive. It drives straight as an arrow.

Also, I mentioned that my van was burning about 1/2 quart of oil per 1000 miles. When I told him I was using synthetic he told me that I should switch to dino and see what happens. He was pretty confident that the oil loss would be significantly be reduced.

I am one who is not easily impressed and somewhat of a cynic, however, Mike the technician really knows his stuff and took the time to show me everything and explain it all.

I would recommend this shop to anyone needing these types of services.

Hope this helps.

[booster]

Originally Posted by KurtFranz

I recently purchased a set of front and rear Bilstein shocks with the intent of installing them myself. Changed my mind and took the van to Callaghan Tire in Bradenton, FL. They installed the shocks nicely for me in addition to performing a front wheel alignment. I had a bad case of negative camber on the driver side and a bit on the passenger side. The tech told me that he was not able to get this adjusted correctly unless he removed the knock outs, which would take more time which I did not have at the time. He told me that he had to remove the upper control arms to get the knock outs removed and also suggested that I might want to replace both of the upper control arms as the new ones include the ball joint and fresh bushings - mine are original as were the shocks. The shop has no issue installing pre purchased components and charges reasonable rates for their work. He told me that until I get the negative camber corrected I should make certain to regularly rotate the tires. Otherwise perfectly safe to drive. It drives straight as an arrow.

Also, I mentioned that my van was burning about 1/2 quart of oil per 1000 miles. When I told him I was using synthetic he told me that I should switch to dino and see what happens. He was pretty confident that the oil loss would be significantly be reduced.

I am one who is not easily impressed and somewhat of a cynic, however, Mike the technician really knows his stuff and took the time to show me everything and explain it all.

I would recommend this shop to anyone needing these types of services.

Hope this helps.

It certainly does sound like your guy is way better than most in that line of work, especially for a tire shop.


I totally agree on doing complete upper arms at the same time, especially on a van that is over 20 years old. The upper arm bushings are likely in poor condition by now. You might even consider having them put on complete lower arms at the same time as they are just as old and also have rubber bushings and a balljoint.


I wouldn't hold my breath on the oil use getting better, depending on where it is going and how many miles are on it, but it may help if the engine had not had the best of care in it's early life and got somewhat gummed up because the synthetic tends to clean the up a bit and get by it and out of the engine. It tends to help more on seal and gasket leaks than on past the rings burning of oil. The engine is probably a gen 1 5.7 liter GM engine that they made for decades, and they are quite durable, but when they get old they may also lose most of the oil down the valve guides. I don't think any of the gen 1 engines used roller rocker tips so they did tend to wear the valve guides and the seals dry out. If you never see cold temps, and increase in viscosity might do more good, especially if you go to dino oil.

[jjrbus]

I am highly cynical and very critical, I was not born this way! Refreshing to hear, finding a knowledgeable, competent mechanic is not the norm these days! Bit to far from Ft Myers but doable if I have to. There is a Calaghan tire in FT Myers but Mike will not be there.

I have to keep an eye on the oil in mine seems to use a lot and switched to dino oil this time. Owners manual says to use synthetic in cold temperatures. It is not often we see temperatures under 60 in this area.

I thought about replacing the upper control arms while I had it apart but want to find the cause of the wander before I do any more changes. Never a mistake to replace 20 year old rubber!!

[jjrbus]

This post is getting long wonder if I should start a new one? Off to the Alignment Guy again this morning, thats his company name Alignment Guy, Cape Coral FL!

Put my 02 Chevy Roadtrek 200 on the rack and looked it over. Said he cannot sell me any parts as everything is tight, but the alignment is way out of wack and for $150 will make it right.

Also stated that the springs while still ok should be replaced. The front coil springs are tired and the leaf springs are flat. I asked for a ball park figure for the springs and he suggested 10 leaf in the rear which seems like waaaay too much would be about $1000 for the springs and stated he used to work on RV's and will not do the install! So $1k for the springs only, no install.

Once the rear springs are replaced he would order custom coil springs for the front and about $1000 for front springs and install. So total of $2000 give or take couple hundred dollars. Any opinions, ideas, suggestions on this??

[booster]

I would tend to agree that the springs are probably in need of replacement, but how you do it and how much it costs could vary from what he recommended.


AFAIK, the 200s were all built on the previous generation Express cutaway van with the pre LS engines, so you would likely have 5.7l engine and the older style front suspension.


Moog does make front springs for that van and several have used them and documented it on the forum. Markopolo's is older, but has very good information in the discussion. He came out very satisfied. The Moog part numbers are in that discussion.


On the rear, you have another, perhaps better, and probably less money, option of putting in airbags to firm and lift, as they say.


If you are going to do the springs and/or bags, do them before the alignment or you will paying for one again after the springs are installed as they will change the settings by some amount.

[jjrbus]

Thanks for the response, always appreciated. mulling over a lot of things, starting with how much do I want to spend on this.

My 02 200 is built on a 2001 Express 3500 cut away, it has the 5.7 motor and is pre rack and pinion steering, not sure what it is called.

I know the air springs can level the unit but with flat springs how much will they affect handling and ride. A good set of air springs would be half the cost of new leaf springs. New leaf springs are not going to be an easy install and I would not trust anyone to do it so on my back in the driveway. Grey water tank has to come out and I do not know what else?

At $150 for an alignment makes lots of sense to do it last, but I am still unsure if the tires or wheels or something else are causing the wandering. So will start with the alignment. I do not want to spend money and then find out I have another problem!

So today the driver door is out of wack and I cannot open it as it is rubbing against the front fender. This is not a simple board in the door fix, this thing is way out. So going to a collision shop and get a pro opinion on it.

[Kurt Franz]

Do you still have the old wheels?

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by Kurt Franz

Do you still have the old wheels?

Wish I did, nice low mileage rims. Watching Market place and pick and pull for a set most of what I am finding is from high mileage vehicles that were in a wreck!

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Wish I did, nice low mileage rims. Watching Market place and pick and pull for a set most of what I am finding is from high mileage vehicles that were in a wreck!

High mileage on steel rims is not normally a big deal if they are not rusty. It is quite easy to check the roundness and straightness when they mount the tires just by putting the bare rim on the spin balancer and turning it by hand to look for movement that shouldn't be there.


A 50K steel wheel with rust could be unusable, but a 200K wheel be just fine. Steel wheels are very durable.