Wander on highway

[jjrbus]

Do not want to lose post to time out. Shop was not busy and they spent an abnormal amount of time on my Roadtrek, they also declared the front end nice and tight. Manager said most of the wander issues he encounters like this are the tire sidewall flexing. I bought the Bridgestone V-Steel tire because it is an S speed rating which is accomplished with a stiffer sidewall. He also questioned if the KYB Gas Ajust shock are the right shock for my van. As near as I can tell they are an upgrade from factory and I used them on my Toyota RV with no issues. I did not get a chance to get on the highway after the alignment so do not know if it helped. Will take the highway to my balance and tire inspection in the morning to check it out.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Do not want to lose post to time out. Shop was not busy and they spent an abnormal amount of time on my Roadtrek, they also declared the front end nice and tight. Manager said most of the wander issues he encounters like this are the tire sidewall flexing. I bought the Bridgestone V-Steel tire because it is an S speed rating which is accomplished with a stiffer sidewall. He also questioned if the KYB Gas Ajust shock are the right shock for my van. As near as I can tell they are an upgrade from factory and I used them on my Toyota RV with no issues. I did not get a chance to get on the highway after the alignment so do not know if it helped. Will take the highway to my balance and tire inspection in the morning to check it out.

He is blowing smoke up somewhere not mentionable. The caster and camber are too far off to make the van handle decently, IMO. If it took them longer than standard just to set the toe, they really are not good it at all. An old school guy with a manual toe gauge could do it in 5 minutes. Of course they will try to blame the tires, or something else, because then it isn't their fault


It is probably not the shocks at all but it could be somewhat because of a tire, but really only if the bad on is on the front. Get them up to 65/80 psi and try that. I found the V steels to like the higher pressures rather than lower so we never went under that when we had them.

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by booster

He is blowing smoke up somewhere not mentionable. The caster and camber are too far off to make the van handle decently, IMO. If it took them longer than standard just to set the toe, they really are not good it at all. An old school guy with a manual toe gauge could do it in 5 minutes. Of course they will try to blame the tires, or something else, because then it isn't their fault


It is probably not the shocks at all but it could be somewhat because of a tire, but really only if the bad on is on the front. Get them up to 65/80 psi and try that. I found the V steels to like the higher pressures rather than lower so we never went under that when we had them.

I was not clear enough with my post. Before putting on alignment machine they test drove it then put RT on a lift and looked over everything, tires, frame, front end etc. Was not on alignment machine for very long.

This is the 4th time this has been looked over and only one mechanic suggested replacing idler arms and brackets, so I am confident there is nothing worn on front end.

I believe this is the kit you are referring too for caster and camber, says guaranteed to fit my 01 Chevy Express 3500.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NCP2...jBN8O3J2vxUmBM

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

I was not clear enough with my post. Before putting on alignment machine they test drove it then put RT on a lift and looked over everything, tires, frame, front end etc. Was not on alignment machine for very long.

This is the 4th time this has been looked over and only one mechanic suggested replacing idler arms and brackets, so I am confident there is nothing worn on front end.

I believe this is the kit you are referring too for caster and camber, says guaranteed to fit my 01 Chevy Express 3500.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NCP2...jBN8O3J2vxUmBM

I only mentioned NAPA because many shops but almost exclusively from them so you are kind of stuck that way sometimes. Lots of brands of kits are out there that are less expensive than NAPA. You need two kits per vehicle to do both sides.


If they itemized the bill, look to see what the alignment part of it was. Probably in $100 range around here, maybe even more by now. As you say, it wasn't on the machine long, and they didn't get caster or camber set to even the very wide range GM allows and didn't offer you the option of putting in the cam kits to try to fix it properly now and in the future.

[booster]

I have always heard of the knockout plugs being removed with a hammer and chisel or air hammer, but it appears they also make a specific tool to make it easier and leave the hole needing less cleanup of ragged edges.


Hopefully the shop has one of these as they aren't all that expensive. The link below is for one of the good ones, knockoffs are about half the price or less but may break easier.


https://www.amazon.com/OTC-7491C-Upp...00F5JMCC&psc=1

[jjrbus]

Thanks again, I had bought the tires 2 years and 10k miles ago at Discount tire in AL where I bought the van, thankfully they recently opened a store in Ft Myers. I was able to get a free tire inspection and tire balancing this morning, they use a road force balancer. They claim there are no issues with tires and only 1 tire needed re-balancing. I had them put 65 psi in the front and 80 in the rear, that does seem to be the best pressure but still that bit of wander.

I like NAPA, the local shop manager is a cornucopia of knowledge and is always willing to help if he can. NAPA was the only site that showed the camber caster kit, the only one that showed up on a search anyway, the rest were showing a replacement kit with indents to lock the adjustments in place. When traveling and need assistance I always go to NAPA and ask for a recommendation, they know who the good guys are and who does what.

Yes the alignment was $109 with tax, my favorite shop only charges $60, but I needed a 2nd opinion.

Will be going to the alignment shop I used yesterday for an oil change and talk to him about installing the kit and redoing the alignment. My favorite shop does not do any mechanical work, only alignments.

[jjrbus]

Went for the oil change and discussed the issue with the manager, he called the other manager over and they bounced some ideas around. I asked about the cam kits and they both agreed it would be good to add them. Also told me if I want to add the kits myself or some where else they would re align for free under the 3 month alignment warranty.

One manager insists it is the tires and mentioned something called radial creep or something like that. The tires are the OE tires for the van LT 245 75R 16 10 ply or load range E. I bought the Bridgestone tires because they have a stiffer sidewall with an S speed rating.

I will still keep looking for a set of tires and steel rims to experiment with.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Went for the oil change and discussed the issue with the manager, he called the other manager over and they bounced some ideas around. I asked about the cam kits and they both agreed it would be good to add them. Also told me if I want to add the kits myself or some where else they would re align for free under the 3 month alignment warranty.

One manager insists it is the tires and mentioned something called radial creep or something like that. The tires are the OE tires for the van LT 245 75R 16 10 ply or load range E. I bought the Bridgestone tires because they have a stiffer sidewall with an S speed rating.

I will still keep looking for a set of tires and steel rims to experiment with.

Sounds like you have a plan.


For the wheels you want a Hollander exchange number STL1649 which is used part number for several factory numbers.

https://www.hubcaphaven.com/p/5036/s...el-silver.html

Best place is if you have a local Pick n Pull junk yard. You would want a lot 90s Suburban or Silverado pickup. Print out a pic of the wheel so you can pick them out among all the older vehicles or wheel storage places they have in the normal junk yards. Expect maybe $15 apiece at Pick N Plull or 50ish at a regular junkyard. They may cut a better deal for 4 or 5.


Your spare is probably a factory steel wheel of correct offset so just take that with plus a picture.


You can also watch your local Craigslist under tires and wheels and under used auto parts.

[jjrbus]

Thanks for all the great info and input, always greatly appreciated. Don't go away just yet, I am sure to have more questions!

Any direction I go with this is going to be pricey and thinking that the van drove well till I changed shocks, tires and wheels. I will start with the tires and wheels first. The local pick and pull charges about $15 each for rims. The 8 lug are not easy to find. There are several LT 245 75R 16 on Market place and used tires do not sell well in this area.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Thanks for all the great info and input, always greatly appreciated. Don't go away just yet, I am sure to have more questions!

Any direction I go with this is going to be pricey and thinking that the van drove well till I changed shocks, tires and wheels. I will start with the tires and wheels first. The local pick and pull charges about $15 each for rims. The 8 lug are not easy to find. There are several LT 245 75R 16 on Market place and used tires do not sell well in this area.

You are in Floriday, IIRC, so the old wheels should be in much better shape than the rusty stuff we get up here in Minnesota. Good price also once you find them.



Tires, however, are probably the other way around as heat takes a toll on them in Florida. Check any used ones for sidewally cracks and for any plugs or patches if the are of rims.

[jjrbus]

I am from Buffalo NY and rust seems to ring a bell for some reason Hoping to find some wheels with tires on them. Not looking for high quality tires, something I can get up to highway speed once to see if the wiggle goes away. I would even rent tires and wheels if that were possible.

[jjrbus]

So should I be upset or maybe I am wrong. 4 wheel alignments since I bought this van, 3 at a shop I really trust and 1 recently. So I surf the web find the info I need go and order the parts at NAPA, Will be in at 5 today. Come home start pulling the van apart and what is in there looks like the caster/camber kit I ordered. 4 alignments and no one noticed??

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

So should I be upset or maybe I am wrong. 4 wheel alignments since I bought this van, 3 at a shop I really trust and 1 recently. So I surf the web find the info I need go and order the parts at NAPA, Will be in at 5 today. Come home start pulling the van apart and what is in there looks like the caster/camber kit I ordered. 4 alignments and no one noticed??

I am not a big fan of current day alignment shops or the poorly trained techs, but that is just ridiculous.

[jjrbus]

The 3 alignments at my favorite shop is so disappointing, they have been around forever, I thought they were the cream of the crop!

I have only had the RT 2 years and the list of service mistakes is shocking and I have not had much done. Oh well guess I will have to buy an alignment machine LOL

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

The 3 alignments at my favorite shop is so disappointing, they have been around forever, I thought they were the cream of the crop!

I have only had the RT 2 years and the list of service mistakes is shocking and I have not had much done. Oh well guess I will have to buy an alignment machine LOL

I actually have the equipment at home to do alignments in the driveway.



Not a machine, and wouldn't want one anyway because they are too inefficient and the claimed accuracy never seems to be what you get anyway.


I have cheapo bar style toe gauge.


A bubble style caster/camber gauge that attaches to the wheel hub.


And two alignment "turntables" so I can turn the wheels without the vehicle moving around and messing up the readings.


About $700 total invested and I have already gotten that back and more by not having to pay $100 every time and still get crap specs.



I can setup and teardown in the driveway in a about an hour or less and the alignment 30-60 minutes as it is putsy and I am picky.

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by booster

I actually have the equipment at home to do alignments in the driveway.



Not a machine, and wouldn't want one anyway because they are too inefficient and the claimed accuracy never seems to be what you get anyway.


I have cheapo bar style toe gauge.


A bubble style caster/camber gauge that attaches to the wheel hub.


And two alignment "turntables" so I can turn the wheels without the vehicle moving around and messing up the readings.


About $700 total invested and I have already gotten that back and more by not having to pay $100 every time and still get crap specs.



I can setup and teardown in the driveway in a about an hour or less and the alignment 30-60 minutes as it is putsy and I am picky.

10 years ago I bought a Toyota RV with the help of a neighborhood wrench replaced everything in the front, plus all bushings, front and rear. His dad was the car guru. When it was done the dad told me to take it to West Coast alignment and don't even think about anyplace else if I wanted it done right. I go to west coast and is like walking into a 60's movie set. Just needed the pack of Camels rolled up in the T shirt sleeves, very old school. Toyota does not fit in the building so they align it in the parking lot! Strictly an alignment shop no mechanical work.

They also did on vehicle balancing and tire shaving. All very impressive and been using them since. No idea why this went south.

[jojobafanzi]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

No idea why the after is upside down, it is right side up on my desktop?? No idea how to fix it so uploading again.

Try more positive Caster.

[jjrbus]

This is getting frustrating. They tell me to put a caster camber kit in and bring it back. So I go back and tell them there is a kit in it already. He said I know but it is maxed out you need a new kit. I talked with the 2 managers for 10 minutes the other day and they did not say one word about a maxed out kit!

It is an eccentric bolt I do not see how a new one will be any different??

Edit. 15 minutes on the internet and I will bet a $100 to a doughnut that it is seized up with rust.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

This is getting frustrating. They tell me to put a caster camber kit in and bring it back. So I go back and tell them there is a kit in it already. He said I know but it is maxed out you need a new kit. I talked with the 2 managers for 10 minutes the other day and they did not say one word about a maxed out kit!

It is an eccentric bolt I do not see how a new one will be any different??

I can't tell from the pic which side of the van it is on. If the can shown is the rear end of the upper control arm it looks to be in the neutral position as the lobe isn't pointing outward or inward.


If it were maxed out for maximum caster the forward leg of the arm would out as far as possible, which should be with the cam pointed out. The rear leg would be opposite. The goal for more caster is to move the upper balljoint to the rear of the vehicle, so out in front and in on the rear. This is ignoring camber at this point.



Why didn't they even mention it had the kits and they were maxed out when you asked about kits. It appears they have dug themselves into a hole and are now pulling the dirt in on top of them.

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by booster

I can't tell from the pic which side of the van it is on. If the can shown is the rear end of the upper control arm it looks to be in the neutral position as the lobe isn't pointing outward or inward.


If it were maxed out for maximum caster the forward leg of the arm would out as far as possible, which should be with the cam pointed out. The rear leg would be opposite. The goal for more caster is to move the upper balljoint to the rear of the vehicle, so out in front and in on the rear. This is ignoring camber at this point.



Why didn't they even mention it had the kits and they were maxed out when you asked about kits. It appears they have dug themselves into a hole and are now pulling the dirt in on top of them.

Picture above is the driverside. These shops annoying don't know who to believe anymore. This is a brand new shop of a chain. Think they would have their best and brightest on duty.

When I get the new kits in I don't know if I should go back for the free alignment or look for someone less incompetent.