Wander on highway

[peteco]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Thanks for the input. Tires are Bridgestone LT VSteel rib 245 75R 16 load range E, This tire has a S speed rating. After buying I found they were the OE tire for my 02 Roadtrek 01 chassis. I believe too many tire failures are due to underinfaltion and am anal about psi, using TPMS and carring a compressor, I will not drive 10 feet on an underinflated tire. They are now 2 years old with 7000 miles on them. I consider 10% under recommended pressure to be underinflated. I need to weight this.

I do try to exercise the tires regurally, the low milage and wander being subtle does not let me decide something is a problem right after doing. When I greased the van I missed the grease fitting for the upper idle arm driver side. That caused a very noticeable increase in wander. VAn had been in paint shop for 3 months, I took it to have alignment checked and they found the ungreased fitting after greasing there was a noticeable improvement.

The Bridgestones are a good tire, though firm riding the handling is great for me.

I would say that if greasing the idler arm improves the wandering noticeably, then the idler arm is worn enough to be the problem, or certainly a major contributor. My idler arm was worn out at 50,000 miles due to poor maintenance by previous owner. I put 90,000 miles on new Moog heavy duty idler arm and it exhibited no wear. I greased it and the rest of the fittings every oil change; 5000 miles. Make sure you replace with a heavy duty unit, like Moog, or even better the SuperSteer unit.

The Moog and most others are just a sleeve bearing unit, which is fine if greased regularly though eventually they still probably wear out. I did decide to replace mine anyway with the SuperSteer with Tapered Roller Bearings. It is a great part and tight and smooth turning, though I admit my handling was fine before with the Moog.

https://www.amazon.com/SuperSteer-SS...ustomerReviews

https://supersteerparts.com/products...uvs-ss175.html

[jjrbus]

Thanks, will tell them to double check the idler. Too windy today to experiment with tire pressure. So been looking at other things, one thing that I notice is the KYB Gas Adjust shock website shows KG 54100 for the rear and the shock is marked KG 54101. KYB does not show a KG 54101 on their website??

[FloridaBill]

If it wasn't wandering much before you put the new rims on, and it now wanders, it is very possible the rims are the problem. On my Roadtrek, I had a bit of a wander and the alignment guy suggested the factory aluminum wheels could be the problem as they can be out of round or bend easily under weight. He suggested I replace them with steel wheels - which I did. That resolved the wander. The other issue I had was excessive play in the steering. The steering wheel would have about two inches of free play before actually turning the wheels. Turned out it was the steering box. The tech showed me how to adjust the play out of the steering box. It's easy to do on a chevy. Just loosen the locknut on the steering box, then turn the adjustment no more than 1/8 turn. Then tighten the locknut. Test before you drive to make sure you didn't make the steeting too tight.

[booster]

Originally Posted by FloridaBill

If it wasn't wandering much before you put the new rims on, and it now wanders, it is very possible the rims are the problem. On my Roadtrek, I had a bit of a wander and the alignment guy suggested the factory aluminum wheels could be the problem as they can be out of round or bend easily under weight. He suggested I replace them with steel wheels - which I did. That resolved the wander. The other issue I had was excessive play in the steering. The steering wheel would have about two inches of free play before actually turning the wheels. Turned out it was the steering box. The tech showed me how to adjust the play out of the steering box. It's easy to do on a chevy. Just loosen the locknut on the steering box, then turn the adjustment no more than 1/8 turn. Then tighten the locknut. Test before you drive to make sure you didn't make the steeting too tight.

If your Roadtrek was on a 2003 or later Chevy, going from factory aluminum to steel wheels would probably moved you from having the bad by 1 3/8" per side wrong offset of the aluminum wheels they used. Likely you would be replaced by the correct offset steel wheels.

[FloridaBill]

Yeah, it was on a 2006 that the steel wheels solved the problem. I now have a 2013 with no wander, except on windy days. Tire pressure of 80 rear and 58 front gives the best handling on mine (with Bilsteins and Sumo Springs).

[booster]

Originally Posted by FloridaBill

Yeah, it was on a 2006 that the steel wheels solved the problem. I now have a 2013 with no wander, except on windy days. Tire pressure of 80 rear and 58 front gives the best handling on mine (with Bilsteins and Sumo Springs).

Your profile says Winnebago Aspect, is that what the 2013 is or another Chevy Roadtrek?

[jjrbus]

Thanks for the input, I do suspect the wheels. I have learned far more about wheels in the last few days then I ever wanted to know. Web searching does not show wandering caused by aluminum wheels but when I rotated from front to rear there is a slight difference. I am watching market place and will be checking the local pick and pull for some 18-20mm offset 8 lug steel wheels. Which only seem to be on GM vans.

I do find it confusing that I see other Roadtreks with aluminum wheels not reporting any problems.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Thanks for the input, I do suspect the wheels. I have learned far more about wheels in the last few days then I ever wanted to know. Web searching does not show wandering caused by aluminum wheels but when I rotated from front to rear there is a slight difference. I am watching market place and will be checking the local pick and pull for some 18-20mm offset 8 lug steel wheels. Which only seem to be on GM vans.

I do find it confusing that I see other Roadtreks with aluminum wheels not reporting any problems.

Did you check to see the what the tire pressures are? The front to rear swap, if all 4 wheels are the same, should show up and issue with the tires and not usually the wheels unless one is bent or out of round which would give you a shake or shimmy feeling. If the tire pressures are different front to rear, it would definitely show up in the handling, at least they I would notice as I can feel the 5 psi difference in our front tires that they run cold on a chilly morning in a hot summer day.

[FloridaBill]

I sold the Winnebago Aspect last year and bought a 2013 Roadtrek Ranger RT. One owner, with just 31,000 miles, I couldn't resist. I'll update my profile to reflect that.

[jjrbus]

Thanks, I am anal about tire pressure. One day I left the house and was thinking it is pretty windy out and noticed I had not turned on the TPMS. When I did one front tire was 6 or 7 psi lower than the other, I was surprised that such a small difference would cause handling issues. That was with the aluminum wheels. If I get to the steel wheels I need to recreate the pressures and see what happens.

I am experimenting with psi but has been windy the last couple days, 80 psi is the only option for the rear 01 chassis RT 200, I am at 58 psi in the front now and will try 60 and 65 next.

I first started using TPMS with my last RV a Toyota and was amazed at how much tire pressure can vary.

Doing some suspension reading and noticed complaints on Moog products, Moog has always great so disappointed, then found Moog has 2 grades of parts.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Thanks, I am anal about tire pressure. One day I left the house and was thinking it is pretty windy out and noticed I had not turned on the TPMS. When I did one front tire was 6 or 7 psi lower than the other, I was surprised that such a small difference would cause handling issues. That was with the aluminum wheels. If I get to the steel wheels I need to recreate the pressures and see what happens.

I am experimenting with psi but has been windy the last couple days, 80 psi is the only option for the rear 01 chassis RT 200, I am at 58 psi in the front now and will try 60 and 65 next.

I first started using TPMS with my last RV a Toyota and was amazed at how much tire pressure can vary.

Doing some suspension reading and noticed complaints on Moog products, Moog has always great so disappointed, then found Moog has 2 grades of parts.

I think you will find that it gets better with higher pressures. As mentioned by several others also, many of us find that 65/80 is a good place to be, although we have come down off it a little with the Agilis tires that seem to like a bit less. We are two sizes up on size at 265/75/16 so we have lots of load capacity excess compared to many Roadtreks and mostly run 62/76 psi right now unless we get on a trip with very wide temp swings, then we would tend to go up some so we don't get too low in the cold morning times.


A close, not perfect, rule of thumb for tire pressures is that they will vary with temperature at about 1.75psi per 10*F change in the front and 2.0psi per 10*F in the rear. That puts out base pressures of 62/76 the same as a 65/80 vehicle at 20*F cooler temperature. When you start getting 50*F temp swings over a days driving you are going to get a lot of temp swing from it, plus the heating up from driving, so kind of an educated guess of pressure to fill the tires cold.


I am surprised you got that much temp difference from the two tires. I would keep an eye on that as I wouldn't consider it to be normal. Aluminum wheels can have porosity issues sometimes that can cause hard to find leaks, so any new wheels, especially aftermarket of likely Chinese origin could be suspect. Also be sure they have the adequate load rating to match the tires at 3042# or more per wheel.

[peteco]

Maybe it has been mentioned, but could a problem with the tires be a contributor? A slipped or faulty belt??? As I said previously, you may have more than one item contributing to the overall problem.

Regarding Moog, my understanding is they have two grades, with the heavier duty grade what you want. Even then, there is the potential for a faulty part. That's the unfortunate fact of life nowadays. That's why I went with the Supersteer idler

Make sure the pitman arm is closely checked. I think those are less of a wear item than the idler arm for some reason. I changed mine when I changed the idler arm just to eliminate it as a potential problem. It is much more of a hassle to change than the idler though.

[booster]

Originally Posted by peteco

Maybe it has been mentioned, but could a problem with the tires be a contributor? A slipped or faulty belt??? As I said previously, you may have more than one item contributing to the overall problem.

Regarding Moog, my understanding is they have two grades, with the heavier duty grade what you want. Even then, there is the potential for a faulty part. That's the unfortunate fact of life nowadays. That's why I went with the Supersteer idler

Make sure the pitman arm is closely checked. I think those are less of a wear item than the idler arm for some reason. I changed mine when I changed the idler arm just to eliminate it as a potential problem. It is much more of a hassle to change than the idler though.

Absolutely it could be a bad tire and that is what the front to rear swap would show if the tire pressures were adjusted to the same as before the swap. OP has four changes all at the same time and the all overlap so hard to pinpoint without testing. Different tires, wheels, shocks, and pressure adjustments.


Yep, Moog has had a few issues, but from my experience the highly touted Mevotech are much worse for the same or more money. I would stay away from the low end version of Moog unless there is no choice, which is getting common lately it appears as they drop the higher end when sales drop because low cost repair of the older vehicles is more common.


Idler arms do have higher failure rate than pitman arms, probably because they have two moveable end with the top on being the sleeve bearing. Pitman arms can be an issue to replace if needed, for sure. On my 96 Buick Roadmaster I broke a high end pitman puller trying to get the pitman off the steering gear and I had it in the vise and not in car so could be very careful. Luckily for me it was going out for rebuild/upgrade anyway so I could use heat on to get it off. It melted the lower gear oil seal but no other damage except a lot of smoke.

[jjrbus]

Sitting in driveway with motor off the free play in the steering wheel is 1 1/4- 1 1/2"

When I look at tire tread rolling tire around on ground I notice nothing out of ordinary.

What is the best way to check a tire for issues??

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Sitting in driveway with motor off the free play in the steering wheel is 1 1/4- 1 1/2"

When I look at tire tread rolling tire around on ground I notice nothing out of ordinary.

What is the best way to check a tire for issues??

It is best to check it with the motor running and watch a front tire at the same time, looking for movement.


A better test is to just drive it in some wind and see how big your corrections are.

[jjrbus]

Not sure what to make of this, took the RT into a shop today and they claim I need Left and right idler arms and brackets. Stopped to talk to alignment guy and he is closed till after the holidays. Isn't worn idler arms and brackets something the alignment shop should have found?? Use to hav a regular mechanic I trusted but he unfriended me when I bought the RT as it is too big for his lifts. $888.36 bill but only 1.5 hours labor if I have it done.
[IMG][/IMG]

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Not sure what to make of this, took the RT into a shop today and they claim I need Left and right idler arms and brackets. Stopped to talk to alignment guy and he is closed till after the holidays. Isn't worn idler arms and brackets something the alignment shop should have found?? Use to hav a regular mechanic I trusted but he unfriended me when I bought the RT as it is too big for his lifts. $888.36 bill but only 1.5 hours labor if I have it done.
[IMG][/IMG]

What kind of shop is this? I wonder if they know what they are doing as this vehicle's parts list (2001 Express 3500) on GMpartsdirect shows a single idler arm and a pitman arm that goes on the steering gear. Pitman arms don't have brackets that I know of.


Did you happen to mention to be sure to check the idler arm? If so that is a near guarantee in some shops that they will say it is bad and needs replacing.


It would interesting to have them give you the part numbers and manufacturer of the parts so we can check to see what they are actually for.

[jjrbus]

I always act stupid when I am forced to deal with anything here in FL, my experiences with most have been dismal. I need to start carrying a recorder because if you told me some of the stories I have had I would be very skeptical. Like the service writer at Walmart who refused to remove my old tires to put new ones on because mine were too old. Yes it really happened!

I have no reason to trust or distrust this shop, Large operation, tow trucks, body shop, they have been around a long time. I told them that my van was wandering on the highway, they asked if I wanted a front end alignment and I replied no I had an alignment and need to know what is wrong. I left and went to the alignment shop to get his take on this as I trust him. Of course I will check with another shop or 2 before spending any money.

No idea of part # all I overheard was Moog parts. If I end up getting this done I will be very specific about parts and part numbers.

Attempting to get a handle on this I have been looking at some videos and looking at parts. This seems to be the correct replacement kit. I do not know anything about the seller, just window shopping. https://autobuffy.com/kit/2001/chevr...RoCjYIQAvD_BwE

[TX-Trek]

Originally Posted by booster

What kind of shop is this? I wonder if they know what they are doing as this vehicle's parts list (2001 Express 3500) on GMpartsdirect shows a single idler arm and a pitman arm that goes on the steering gear. Pitman arms don't have brackets that I know of.

Did you happen to mention to be sure to check the idler arm? If so that is a near guarantee in some shops that they will say it is bad and needs replacing.

It would interesting to have them give you the part numbers and manufacturer of the parts so we can check to see what they are actually for.

Totally agree here, there's no brackets involved that I know of.

I do my own work so I can't talk about their pricing, but I'd want oem parts at what I perceive as premium cost. Not cheap overseas garbage.
Be aware that the Moog brand isn't all it used to be. They also sell a cheaper line of parts.
I'd look closely at the idler arm too, at age/mileage they do loosen up.

I'll see if I can find the picture - I did my front end stuff, the idler was oem GM replacement, easy enough when looking at other brands. I decided to get a Moog pitman arm, but found online info about the ball end snapping on HD trucks. For all purposes our vans are HD trucks. I decided to pull the new Moog and replace with oem GM.

The difference in the two arms was substantial. Oem GM was thicker and also fit better onto the steering shaft. The Moon didn't fit as far onto the shaft as I was comfortable with. That was part of my decision to replace a brand new part, thinking about our 1 ton tubby going down the road....

Edit, here's the picture. Moog on left, GM on right.



You can use Rockauto to look up parts, and compare brands. Also look up online GM parts, use your vin number to see specific GM parts/numbers for your vehicle. Compare with info on repair estimate....

[jjrbus]

Bracket is deceiving not what I expected. I have done my own work for long time. At 75 I crawl under the vehicle and tend to fall asleep. $95 hour with 1.5 hours estimated is more than fair. They seem to be liberal in their parts markup's.

Any recommended site for OE GM parts?

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...=10481&jsn=513