Used Class B prices

[Articsteve]

After looking at a 210 Popular on the US RV Trader it dawned on me that a Chevy chromed front bumper would be available as a repair option. The rear lower side panels on the 190 still seem to be a problem if they shattered and no replacements were available.

From what I can tell there are scant late model Popular 190s available. The only 2 listed appear to be horrible deals.

[Articsteve]

Me again. lol Me thinks I should have done a wee more reading before I posted as I found this for price referencing on the forum; https://roadtrekchapter.org/roadtreks-for-sale/

Wow, not great. Makes my 2019 Ontario 190 offering seem like a bargain which in my Canadian mind is $10K USD too dear. I call this dealer up and if I can reasonable establish that it's an original owner I may have a serious go.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Articsteve

Thank you for all the detailed replies. Where to start?

The ask is $109K CAD which is roughly a tad shy of $79K USD. Sales tax is 13% !! Seller is a well established independent motorhome dealer so the transaction will be legitimate. Can't see this being a rental. If it were then it must be disclosed by law. Ideally, I would like to call the previous owner. I assume only one, but for $20 the DMV will disclose all registered owners.

I use to rent 28ft Class Cs many times and take trips in Canada with the kids in the good ole days when government camp grounds with full hook ups were 10 bucks and 50% full any time. Now everything is packed and reservations are out of the question for me. I'm looking for a highway cruiser that allows for overnight trips in the hinterland to such things as plowing matches, etc. Something very stealth if I need to bed down in a town on the way home. The traveling toilet with macerator is key. Not this winter, but maybe next, I'll take it down to Florida, AZ, etc.

The only Class B I will consider is the Chevy V8 van chassis with the 6.0 liter and the 6L90 6 speed. I want something bullet proof. I'll disable the AFM if equipped and swap out the oil pump. Only unknown are the oil changes. That is why a fairly low mileage unit is important so the engine and tranny are less likely to be ruined by the previous operators.

The $14K CAD tax is a hard pill to swallow on a used unit. Being NOT the United States, I reckon that there are not many Ontario/western Quebec buyers that find the Popular 190 that appealing at the listed price. The Feds are tacking on another 50 cents a gallon (carbon tax) April 1st so that will push 87 octane to $6 CAD for a US gallon, not to mention the summer increase. So $200 a fill.

The other negative relates to body parts as mentioned. The front and rear fascia; can those be had for replacement? It must be assumed that the new Roadtrek company have washed there hands of Popular series. What about the lower side panels? What's the insurance company gonna say and do?

I really never thought about this body part problem. Thanks for bringing it up. I going to call Roadtrek and see what the situation is exactly and report back.
Imagine dropping $90K USD and getting stuck with a vehicle like the Popular sans no lower fascia or rear fascia after ya hit a wild turkey or some twit rear ends ya.

Sounds like you have it under control for what chassis you want. Are there years out there that have the 6L90 and not AFM? If so, you may want to try to find one of them.


I just looked at an article on doing an AFM delete as I had only heard of people disabling them with a plug in delete box or a pcm flash. It sounds like a lot of work and cost do properly, a lot more than I realized. Having to change out the oil pump, cam, and lifters is a big deal once you get past the pump. Winding up down 25psi compression on 4 cylinders would not be a good thing otherwise and they implied early lifter failures, also.


You can change the cam and lifters with engine in the van, but I am sure it is a PITA with the engine tucked up under the firewall, compared to doing it in a pickup.

[mumkin]

As to those fancy, easily breakable bumper covers... the originals are underneath and likely in perfect condition. Personally I like them better anyway. If mine had been damaged in my 170, I would have just left them off.

It will likely take a bit of cleaning, but you sound like you would be able to do this with few problems.

[Articsteve]

Sounds like you have it under control for what chassis you want. Are there years out there that have the 6L90 and not AFM? If so, you may want to try to find one of them.


I have not been able to ascertain if the Chevy cargo platforms, being "commercial", were equipped with the 6.0 had DMF/AFM at any time. I'm assuming this 2019 has. A GM independent tells me it's an easy disable (delete unnecessary) with oil pump. Consequently, I'm not concerned about that.

I found 2 "190s" in all of Canada. A 2014 Ranger RT? 20.5 feet, 109K miles @ $73K USD and a 2007 190 with 67K miles @ $56K USD. Both opposite ends of the country. Calgary and Halifax.

https://www.autotrader.ca/rv/class%2...advancedSearch

[Articsteve]

As to those fancy, easily breakable bumper covers... the originals are underneath and likely in perfect condition. Personally I like them better anyway. If mine had been damaged in my 170, I would have just left them off.

Ya, I was over thinking things about the bumpers. But the lower rear fiberglass panel, aft of the rear wheel, looks like it would shatter in a rear ender. Not something one usually stresses about on vehicles because replacements are always available. I'm going to call the new Roadtrek and see if I can get an answer on spare body/cladding parts.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Articsteve

Sounds like you have it under control for what chassis you want. Are there years out there that have the 6L90 and not AFM? If so, you may want to try to find one of them.


I have not been able to ascertain if the Chevy cargo platforms, being "commercial", were equipped with the 6.0 had DMF/AFM at any time. I'm assuming this 2019 has. A GM independent tells me it's an easy disable (delete unnecessary) with oil pump. Consequently, I'm not concerned about that.

I found 2 "190s" in all of Canada. A 2014 Ranger RT? 20.5 feet, 109K miles @ $73K USD and a 2007 190 with 67K miles @ $56K USD. Both opposite ends of the country. Calgary and Halifax.

https://www.autotrader.ca/rv/class%2...advancedSearch

The only information I have been able to find on the van engines point to an L96G which appears to be a late to get rid of Vortec with VVT but no AFM. Where did you see that the 2019 had AFM?


The van engines at least for many years, used the iron block 6.0 truck engine and not the aluminum pickup truck version, so that may be the difference.



I really can't imagine them putting AFM in a van that has nearly a 10K# GVWR and 15K combined.


Rockauto only seems to show the standard oil pump, cam, and lifters also.


I did some more checking and it appears the Vortex 6.0 L96G was used until the vans changed to 6.6L in 2021. The L96 is the cast iron block Vortec and I couldn't find anyplace that said it ever had AFM.

[Articsteve]

Thanks for all the effort looking into the AFM. I also read that the iron blocks had no DFM/AFM. Consequently, with your research I'm now of the opinion that a 2019 190 Popular is free of same. Pretty sure that D3 "commercial" platforms were not subject to EPA mileage requirements. The Rock Auto oil pump listings pretty well seals it.

I'll let everyone know the outcome.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Articsteve

I'm going to call the new Roadtrek and see if I can get an answer on spare body/cladding parts.

All of the leftover Chevy related Roadtrek bits were sold at the auction to a Canadian company... in Ontario, I think. Sorry I can't recall the name, but I am sure if you call Roadtrek, they can give you the name and number.

[Articsteve]

Great info. Appreciate it. Will make communication with the new Roadtrek much more coherent with my inquiry to them about bits and pieces.

The only reason I'm obsessing about body parts is due to the obscene 13% tax sales tax bringing this vehicle to $100K USD. If for some reason I decide to sell it and I've got lower body parts damaged and unable to repair them I'll take an absolute pasting on the resale.

These RT Populars were not big sellers up here in the north to put it mildly. Presently, it's even worse. I see the magnificence of the platform/power train. The very last of the Detroit iron, literally.

But to 99.99% of buyers in Ontario these aren't campers and in the case of the 190 they have a point. For me it's an over nighter or two. A travelling toilet that you can pump up hill so to speak. Just perfect.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Articsteve

Great info. Appreciate it. Will make communication with the new Roadtrek much more coherent with my inquiry to them about bits and pieces.

The only reason I'm obsessing about body parts is due to the obscene 13% tax sales tax bringing this vehicle to $100K USD. If for some reason I decide to sell it and I've got lower body parts damaged and unable to repair them I'll take an absolute pasting on the resale.

These RT Populars were not big sellers up here in the north to put it mildly. Presently, it's even worse. I see the magnificence of the platform/power train. The very last of the Detroit iron, literally.

But to 99.99% of buyers in Ontario these aren't campers and in the case of the 190 they have a point. For me it's an over nighter or two. A travelling toilet that you can pump up hill so to speak. Just perfect.

I think many of us would take issue about it being a 2 night travel vehicle we go on extended trips in 190s. Our longest has been 7 weeks and no nights in hotels or houses, covering 7K miles. Others do much longer, including full timing. You would be surprised how easy it is to adapt to for many people.

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by booster

I think many of us would take issue about it being a 2 night travel vehicle we go on extended trips in 190s. Our longest has been 7 weeks and no nights in hotels or houses, covering 7K miles. Others do much longer, including full timing. You would be surprised how easy it is to adapt to for many people.

True! 2 weeks out in our 17-footer and we're just getting warmed up. Don't need a huge RV, just need to make the best of what you have and with that approach you'll be all set to have a great journey.

[Davydd]

Everyone should take an all summer trip to Alaska and back to test their Class B chops.

[Rocinante]

We spend roughly 3 months camping in our van every summer, and we just spent a month camping our way across the US from east to west and back, so no, we're certainly not weekend warriors. I get that many Class-B owners may be that, but not all of us.

[DrakkoRV]

Well it seems like prices aren't moving at all and the JD Powers book shows a slight increase in value on the RV I've been following.

Not sure when the dealers are going to relent, there is soooo much inventory sitting on the lots but the prices aren't moving.

[jrobe]

The dealers aren't relenting in late winter, early spring - the prime RV sales period. Maybe in the fall with leftovers.

[Rocinante]

They are suspended in that moment in time between when they begin to realize sales are slowing significantly, and being willing to lower prices to get sales moving again. If you can be patient, keep waiting.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by jrobe

The dealers aren't relenting in late winter, early spring - the prime RV sales period. Maybe in the fall with leftovers.

Dealers borrow money to purchase their inventory. The longer the inventory sits on their lower, the lower the profit margin is. Higher interest rate and longer holding times means, dealer's margins will diminish. If they sit too long, dealers can actually lose money on the sale of the vehicle. Better deals will be had when the general manager decides to start reducing inventory.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Rlum

Dealers borrow money to purchase their inventory. The longer the inventory sits on their lower, the lower the profit margin is. Higher interest rate and longer holding times means, dealer's margins will diminish. If they sit too long, dealers can actually lose money on the sale of the vehicle. Better deals will be had when the general manager decides to start reducing inventory.

Exactly correct AFAIK. Used vans are at the cost of financing to the dealer as they don't qualify for dealer stock inventory financing support from a manufacturer like new vans often do. They may be holding out to see what springs brings but I do seem to see prices dropping among the private seller type offerings so it may make them relent a bit sooner. If the all of a sudden have trouble making payroll, they will drop prices. That is how we got our new 07 Roadtrek in late fall 2008 as the dealer needed the money badly.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by booster

Exactly correct AFAIK. Used vans are at the cost of financing to the dealer as they don't qualify for dealer stock inventory financing support from a manufacturer like new vans often do. They may be holding out to see what springs brings but I do seem to see prices dropping among the private seller type offerings so it may make them relent a bit sooner. If the all of a sudden have trouble making payroll, they will drop prices. That is how we got our new 07 Roadtrek in late fall 2008 as the dealer needed the money badly.

This is why at certain times of month when dealer needs to make sales quota to reduce inventory. They will drop prices just to get vehicle off the lot. Each day, these unsold vehicles sit, eats into their profit margins. I believe the holding/carrying costs of these vehicles may be the single largest line item expense next to rent?