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Old 09-12-2024, 06:54 PM   #1
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Default Update on Micheling Agilis tires

We have had the Agilis Crossclimate on our 07 Roadtrek 190P for 3 seasons and about 20K miles. They are oversized for the Chevy at 265/75/16 on correct offset 7" wide steel rims. The Agilis replaced a set of Michelin LTX MS2 tires that we really liked in every way.


Initially the Agilis liked a bit more pressure than the MS2s did, but after a couple of thousand miles it got to about the same pressure for best handling. I have been feeling like the handling was slowly degrading for quite a while, even checking the toe setting a couple of times to make sure it was correct. This year we hit a lot of very divergent temps on our trips where would see 50-60*F temp swings over single days. I suddenly realized that the handling felt significantly better on cold mornings than after it warmed up outside and the tires warmed up. I since have been experimenting with lower pressures with surprising results compared to what we have seen in previous tires.


On our fall trip we just completed I set the tires lower on both the front and rear. That gave us pressures of 71 rear and 58 front which is quit low for us even with the larger tires.



Handling improved quite a bit, and when we got a very warm day on the way home compared to the rest of the trip, the handling got a bit worse.


The Agilis have run a bit hotter than the MS2s since new, and might be a bit more now, but not a lot. We probably get an extra 3-5psi from the extra temp in the tires depending on the air and road temps.


We haven't hit a point in the colder temps yet that the reduced pressures felt bad or odd, so may have a bit more room to reduce pressures a bit more, but it does make me a bit uneasy and I don't have any idea if the whole thing is any real hazard or not. Discount Tire didn't have any idea on why it is happening either.



I think I will just keep dropping a bit more to see if I can get the warm end OK without compromising the cold end of the temp range we see on any given trip. Hopefully, all will be well and not a lot more extra wear of such.


The bit of extra smoothness is nice, but it does give me pause as to what tires I would buy next time. Hopefully, the handling vs pressure will level out soon and stop changing.



I know others have mentioned the higher pressure gains of the Agilis from running hotter. Has anyone noticed the handling being better with cold tires compared to hot tires?
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Old 09-19-2024, 10:28 PM   #2
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Your Agillis tire review has me questioning what to buy for my next set of tires.

I purchased one of the last sets of Michelin LTX MS2 tires at Tire Rack 6 years ago. 40,000 miles later they have been flawless and still look nearly new with plenty of tread dept left. I never had a set of tires that wore so well or look so well after spending every day unprotected in the Texas sun. I've always run them at 60psi front/80psi rear with no harshness or negative wear or handling noted.

But their time is expiring so I need to purchase a new stet before my next trip. I haven't shopped around yet, but I figured it would be a no-brainer to switch to the Agillis. Now I have pretty big doubts and will definitely be doing a lot of research and seeking other's reviews.
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Old 09-19-2024, 11:51 PM   #3
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Your Agillis tire review has me questioning what to buy for my next set of tires.

I purchased one of the last sets of Michelin LTX MS2 tires at Tire Rack 6 years ago. 40,000 miles later they have been flawless and still look nearly new with plenty of tread dept left. I never had a set of tires that wore so well or look so well after spending every day unprotected in the Texas sun. I've always run them at 60psi front/80psi rear with no harshness or negative wear or handling noted.

But their time is expiring so I need to purchase a new stet before my next trip. I haven't shopped around yet, but I figured it would be a no-brainer to switch to the Agillis. Now I have pretty big doubts and will definitely be doing a lot of research and seeking other's reviews.

Yep, we had the same results on our previous MS2s that aged out for us. Excellent tires.


When we bought the Agilis, it was said to be the only tire they recommended for the 3500 vans and that they were better and stronger against blowout than the MS2s. They still say Agilis only.


There is now a Defender LTX MS that carries all the same ratings as the Agilis even though they don't recommend them. It appears to have a tread very similar to the MS2s had.



https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...omCompare1=yes


These are in the stock 245/75/16 size. We have the 265/75/16 on our van


We are also pondering what to do at this point, as it is so very strange to have tires want so much less pressure to get the good handling point compared to new. We ran our MS2s at 65/80 for 8 years and handling never changed over all that time once they had a few hundred miles on them.



I think I will probably run the low pressures next year and see it it quits changing, and if the handling goes away again we will dump the Agilis and get the Defender LTX MS tires regardless of what Michelin says. Discount tire said there would be no issue with them doing that as the ratings are the same.
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Old 09-20-2024, 01:17 PM   #4
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The LTX is not rated for snow whereas the CrossClimates are.
The different rubber compound and more aggressive tread on the CC is most likely why they heat up more in warm conditions.
I wouldn't think it would be a problem, but maybe ask Michelin?
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Old 09-20-2024, 03:39 PM   #5
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The LTX is not rated for snow whereas the CrossClimates are.
The different rubber compound and more aggressive tread on the CC is most likely why they heat up more in warm conditions.
I wouldn't think it would be a problem, but maybe ask Michelin?

I have had a message into Michelin for about a week without answer to this point. I don't use chat any more because it is all bots and even if you get person all you get is the canned responses. Written is good as you have record of what was said.



My guess is that they are going to say there are no issues with the tires and the Agilis is the only tire recommended for the Chevy 3500 van, but we will see. I specifically asked for an assurance of safety against failure for our tires, so the response will be important to our decision as to what to do.
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Old 09-20-2024, 04:01 PM   #6
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The LTX is not rated for snow whereas the CrossClimates are.
The different rubber compound and more aggressive tread on the CC is most likely why they heat up more in warm conditions.
I wouldn't think it would be a problem, but maybe ask Michelin?
Sounds logical. I'd never need the snow rating so I'm hoping the newer LTX MS turns out to be more like the MS2's I'll be replacing.
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Old 09-20-2024, 04:28 PM   #7
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Sounds logical. I'd never need the snow rating so I'm hoping the newer LTX MS turns out to be more like the MS2's I'll be replacing.

I also hope they are mostly the same as they were as we could very well have them in the near future.



The roadtests and reviews I have seen only gave Agilis a very small increase in snow conditions, so probably not as big a deal as would first appear to be. We also avoid snow so no issue for us.


I don't know if the rubber compound is essentially higher wear material or if the individual blocks where faster than the more continuous contact of the MS tires. Heat may come from the compound but I think more likely from the much touted stiffer sidewalls of the Agilis.


Why they are liking lower pressure for us now is still a mystery, but sidewall softening or stiffening over time might be related.


I hope some other Agilis owners who are picky on handling will have some input on how theirs have aged.
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Old 09-20-2024, 04:45 PM   #8
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I just went to the Discount Tire website and yes, by Van lookup the only recommended Michelin tires are the Agillis CrossClimate. But a search by tire size shows additional results like the Agillis LTX with a very similar tread pattern to my old LTX MS2's and an $80 rebate through 9/23/24. Still pricy after rebate, but I'm considering them.


Both the CrossClimate and LTX are load rated E. The only difference in specs I can see are CrossClimate's are speed rated R (106mph) while the LTX are speed rated Q (100mph) which is of no concern to me. But the CrossClimates have 12/32 tread depth to the LTX's 10/32 depth. This is a negative factor for me as I like deeper tread depth. On the other hand, my previous Michelins have aged-out rather than worn out, so may not be as important as I once thought and might provide some initial handling benefit.

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tir...is-ltx/p/89124
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Old 09-20-2024, 06:38 PM   #9
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I just went to the Discount Tire website and yes, by Van lookup the only recommended Michelin tires are the Agillis CrossClimate. But a search by tire size shows additional results like the Agillis LTX with a very similar tread pattern to my old LTX MS2's and an $80 rebate through 9/23/24. Still pricy after rebate, but I'm considering them.

Both the CrossClimate and LTX are load rated E. The only difference in specs I can see are CrossClimate's are speed rated R (106mph) while the LTX are speed rated Q (100mph) which is of no concern to me. But the CrossClimates have 12/32 tread depth to the LTX's 10/32 depth. This is a negative factor for me as I like deeper tread depth. On the other hand, my previous Michelins have aged-out rather than worn out, so may not be as important as I once thought and might provide some initial handling benefit.

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tir...is-ltx/p/89124

I have been doing a bit quick research as stuff didn't make sense between what you found and I found.

It boils down to the size difference between our 265-75-16 and your 245-75-16.

For ours we can get the Agilis Crossclimate or Defender LTX M/S

You don't get the Defender choice but get the Agilis LTX

The Defenders we would get are rated best in category on Tire Rack but it appears they are including the MS2 data in that as the miles of reviews is huge at 32M miles. The Agilis is rated 4th in category.

For you the Agilis Crossclimate is rated 4th in category and the Agilis LTX is rated 7th. This probably a more accurate comparison as there is no old model influence like in the Defenders.

I have looked at a lot of places and haven't been able to find the belt construction details of any of the tires, although I should be able to get it off the tires for ours. I will have to go to Discount tire to see if they have it for the Defenders. The Defenders are 2 pounds lighter than the Agilis.

Of interest is that the Agilis LTX is 5 pounds lighter than the Crossclimate in your size.

It will be interesting for me to find out what the constructions are for our size.
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Old 09-20-2024, 09:49 PM   #10
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As in most cases, the more I look into this the more I still don't know. At this point I am cross-shopping Michelin, Bridgestone, General, and Firestone tires.

Unlike 6 years ago when I shopped the Discount Tire, they have less information on their website. For instance, except in a few limited instances, I can find no information on the tire plies for tread and sidewall. This might make a difference in tire weight that ranges from 41lbs to over 50lbs for tires in my size range 245/75/R16 in load range E. I don't think I need 10 plies, but I don't necessarily want only 4 plies either to carry my up-to-9600lb vehicle on only 4 tires.

Tire tread depths range widely from 10/32 all the way up to 17/23nds. Again, I don't need the deepest tread depth, but I would rather not have the lowest tred depth either.

To compound my search problems, the tirerack.com website was down for 3 hours and just came back up. I'll see what I can find there.

PS - I'd only consider Made in USA but having trouble finding origin of manufacture which used to appear on websites, but appears absent now on Discounttire.com, but at least is still on Tirerack.com.
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Old 09-20-2024, 11:20 PM   #11
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As in most cases, the more I look into this the more I still don't know. At this point I am cross-shopping Michelin, Bridgestone, General, and Firestone tires.

Unlike 6 years ago when I shopped the Discount Tire, they have less information on their website. For instance, except in a few limited instances, I can find no information on the tire plies for tread and sidewall. This might make a difference in tire weight that ranges from 41lbs to over 50lbs for tires in my size range 245/75/R16 in load range E. I don't think I need 10 plies, but I don't necessarily want only 4 plies either to carry my up-to-9600lb vehicle on only 4 tires.

Tire tread depths range widely from 10/32 all the way up to 17/23nds. Again, I don't need the deepest tread depth, but I would rather not have the lowest tred depth either.

To compound my search problems, the tirerack.com website was down for 3 hours and just came back up. I'll see what I can find there.

PS - I'd only consider Made in USA but having trouble finding origin of manufacture which used to appear on websites, but appears absent now on Discounttire.com, but at least is still on Tirerack.com.

Would you be able to look at your MS2 tires to see what the construction is? The plies and where they are should be on the sidewall. We can compare.



Our Agilis in the larger size are


Tread 2 polyester + 1 polyamide + 2 steel
Sidewall 2 polyester


Don't expect to find 10 plies as that is long gone, and what you find is 10 ply rating which is usually load range E.
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Old 09-21-2024, 08:15 PM   #12
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Would you be able to look at your MS2 tires to see what the construction is? The plies and where they are should be on the sidewall. We can compare.



Our Agilis in the larger size are


Tread 2 polyester + 1 polyamide + 2 steel
Sidewall 2 polyester


Don't expect to find 10 plies as that is long gone, and what you find is 10 ply rating which is usually load range E.


I went out and looked at the sidewall of my 6 yr. old Defender LTX's and the tread and sidewall belts are the same as your newer Agilis Cross Climates.

Tread 2 polyester + 1 polyamide + 2 steel
Sidewall 2 polyester

Wish they still made my size so I could just buy a new set of the same as I hate shopping around for tires. But manufacture date on mine is the 48th week of 2018 (coming up on 6 years in a couple of months). They were installed in February 2019.

The Agilis is still the highest rated Michelin mode, so I figured on getting those until your post. Tire track has an A/T 2 model that for some reason is $50 per tire more. I can get $80 off until 9/23 so I would like to go ahead and decide, but I'm not there yet.
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Old 09-21-2024, 08:46 PM   #13
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Searched for recent tire threads and found this recent one. Looks like everyone else still likes the Agilis CrossClimate. Some are on our Express chassis and some are on other makes, but no negatives.

https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...e-14229-2.html
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Old 09-21-2024, 09:50 PM   #14
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Searched for recent tire threads and found this recent one. Looks like everyone else still likes the Agilis CrossClimate. Some are on our Express chassis and some are on other makes, but no negatives.

https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...e-14229-2.html
And I was one of them and still was until I realized the handling degradation I had seen was the tires going downhill and not something else. Interesting the is still cornered well, but the directional stability on straight driving went downhill, especially on grooved highways and in wind.

Our van is very stable and a 3 finger on wheel handling vehicle when working normally. For that reason any degradation gets really obvious quickly and may not be noticed on other vans. Or maybe we just got a bad set of tires.

I did a contact pattern test today on it to see if the pressure looked right or wrong at the lower pressure and it looked very good. I took it for a ride and it handled fine cold and warm (not long highway hot or hot day). This was the pressure we used on our fall trip for temps from the mid 40s to a bit over 80 degrees so no surprise. I have done the contact pattern on a number of my vehicles over the years to help determine best pressure and it always was in total agreement with what I thought when driving so probably a decent test. I will post a pic of the results in a bit.

Did you get a chance to look at your tires for the belt number and locations?
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Old 09-22-2024, 12:34 AM   #15
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Here is a pic of a driveover footprint I did on a front tire. It didn't turn out perfect in shape as I probably should have sprayed the inside of bag with WD40 or silicone so it didn't stick and fold as you can see it did. I also should do the same with only 1 strip of the Mortite caulking to get rid of the push waves.

No big deal as you can still see the pattern is nearly perfectly the same width across the width with a rolloff at the shoulder. The center is actually a tiny bit narrower, but that is good in this case because the tire was cold so when warm the pressure will go up and push down the center somewhat.

This test tire was at 58 psi as it was on our fall trip when handling was good even though the same front tire would have been at 67 psi when new but broken in for best handling.
Using a calc of the rear pressure to keep the same footprint size it would be at 73psi. We will try using 58/73 psi at 70*F as our nominal reference point going forward to see if the handling stays good or goes bad again. If it goes bad again, we will get new tires as it would seem to indicate that the tires were heading toward failure.

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Old 09-22-2024, 03:02 AM   #16
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[QUOTE
Did you get a chance to look at your tires for the belt number and locations?[/QUOTE]

Yes, as posted earlier at 2:15 today, same tread and sidewall belts on my old Defender LTX tires as are on you Agilis.

I've certainly had tires that began to lose traction over time, and some in a startlingly low amount of time and miles. But not since switching to Michelins about 10 years ago. That is when I started changing tires due to age rather than other problems since I don't put on the miles that many people do.
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Old 09-22-2024, 12:47 PM   #17
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[QUOTE
Did you get a chance to look at your tires for the belt number and locations?
Yes, as posted earlier at 2:15 today, same tread and sidewall belts on my old Defender LTX tires as are on you Agilis.

I've certainly had tires that began to lose traction over time, and some in a startlingly low amount of time and miles. But not since switching to Michelins about 10 years ago. That is when I started changing tires due to age rather than other problems since I don't put on the miles that many people do.[/QUOTE]


OOPS. Sorry, missed that one

I also have had tires that lost traction over time and some actually got a bit better when the tread depth got lower (less squirm?).

What I never had happen is having the sweet spot for handling pressure change much once the tires are broken in like these have done.

The ratings for the tires are very interesting because it appears a lot of places only rate the tires that come up on your search by vehicle. Tire Rack even does that now, which is surprising.

Here is link to search for 245/75/16 load range E tires

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surve...=true&filter=y

And here is a search for tires for a Chevy 3500 SRW 8 lug van

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surve...gle+Rear+Wheel

Here is another link to the Michelin site for "car tires" that shows both the Agilis and Defender LTX M/S in 265/75/16 but no Defender for 245/75/16. It is the only place I found on the Michelin site (to this point) that has reviews for both the Agilis and Defender. No reviews on the Commercial tire site and only show Agilis, Rib, and ATX with no Defenders.

https://www.michelinman.com/auto/bro...sion/245/75/16

Something odd is going on because the first search covers the same tire specs as the second, and neither of searches actually cover the Chevy spec for the S speed rating. The aren't using the Chevy spec.

Agilis has fallen off of the top spot on both ratings though and if you search by size on the Michelin site the Agilis has poorer reviews even, which is not how it was in the past.

The only specs I see different between the Agilis and Defender LTX MS are that the Agilis has wider max crossection narrower tread than the defender tread, which normally would mean softer sidewall if all else is equal. Perhaps they are worried about rollover possibility with tall vans and somehow the sidewall/tread difference may influence that.
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Old 09-22-2024, 03:06 PM   #18
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So it seems that Michelin still makes my size in the Defender LTX M/S, but only in Load Range SL and not E.

Yes, I noticed ratings varied quite a bit for the Agilis Cross Climate. As I said previously, the more I look the more confusing it gets.
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Old 09-22-2024, 05:14 PM   #19
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So it seems that Michelin still makes my size in the Defender LTX M/S, but only in Load Range SL and not E.

Yes, I noticed ratings varied quite a bit for the Agilis Cross Climate. As I said previously, the more I look the more confusing it gets.

Yep, bummer they don't make your size in Defender LTX M/S. They still make it in the 265/75/16 that we use, probably because that is the size that was a whole lot of pickups 10 years and more ago so probably still good sales and is said to be very good tire on them that I think even Michelin is recommends along with Agilis.


When I saw the Silverado recomendation I looked up the GVWR on the pickups and was surprised how much under the vans it is, even in one ton pickups. IIRC mid 7000s pounds GVWR was the highest so 2000# less. Obviously pickups are made to tow primarily, not haul like vans do. The tiny boxes now would kind of back that up.


Michelin must think the the extra weight and height are better handled by the Agilis, but it is a bit hard to determine why. For us, because the larger tires have an extra 275# load capacity, I am not concerned for us. For the smaller size, the MS2s and Defenders have been raved about by users on Chevy class Bs universally from what I have seen. We really liked our MS2s and would buy them again in a heartbeat.
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Old 09-22-2024, 10:14 PM   #20
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I don't think I could go to the larger size tire in the size you're running or I would just to be able to stay with Defender LTX M/S.

I generally like the same or slightly larger tires, but when I had my 2-1/2 inch lift installed, the front tires scrubbed on the Airstream installed mud flaps. I trimmed off the part of the mud flap that extended into the wheel well and it solved the problem.

I was surprised the lift make the front scrub where they didn't previously, but the front tires do come awfully close the rear of the wheel well on tight turns. For that reason, I'm afraid of going up-sized on new tires.

I take it this was not a problem on your Roadtrek 190?
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