Unicorn hunting - Assistance needed

[CuStOm]

I have been doing a plethora of research on purchasing a Class B that is truly designed and equipped for harsh winter camping. Staying in the ski resort parking lots without hookups type of camping and have a functioning water system and toilet. Needs excellent insulation, thermal windows, tanks that are enclosed and heated by the furnace (not pads), heated storage, etc...

Does it exist?

We came from a 2011 F350 with a Chalet camper and it worked excellent in the snow but are really wanting to move to a van.

Cross posted on RV.net too...

Thanks for your time and knowledge.
Cheers,
Keith

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by CuStOm

I have been doing a plethora of research on purchasing a Class B that is truly designed and equipped for harsh winter camping. Staying in the ski resort parking lots without hookups type of camping and have a functioning water system and toilet. Needs excellent insulation, thermal windows, tanks that are enclosed and heated by the furnace (not pads), heated storage, etc...

Does it exist?

We came from a 2011 F350 with a Chalet camper and it worked excellent in the snow but are really wanting to move to a van.

Cross posted on RV.net too...

Thanks for your time and knowledge.
Cheers,
Keith

If you have a big enough propane tank, or diesel tank,
anything is possible.

Are you looking to buy new?


Check out Advanced RV.

[CuStOm]

Yes, we're willing to buy new but gently used is preferred. I will look at advanced. Thanks for the recommendation.

[tmshih]

I noticed the latest article on the upcoming Winnebago Paseo mentions the fresh water tank and supply lines are mounted inside the heated space for winter camping.

Winnebago launches Ford Transit-based Paseo camper van

[markopolo]

Enclosed waste tanks are not something I've come across on a B van. It's fairly common with trailers and other types of RV's. Enclosed in a heated space. Maybe a porta-potti or cassette toilet would be the way to go. I'm not sure what you could do for gray waste water.

I don't know at what temperature heating pads would become ineffective either. The continuous power consumption would require a great amount of battery capacity during extended no-hookup stays. Lifep04 batteries, if kept above freezing, will accept a fast recharge. Booster & Avanti have posted data on fast charging AGM batteries.

RV antifreeze definitely can solidify if temps are low enough. It doesn't expand like water but will become pretty solid.

Maybe contact Sportsmobile to see if they've done or can do something like what you want.

Another issue might be condensation in a tight B van if showering inside and extreme cold outside. You need to exchange the warm wet air inside the van for/with the dry winter air.

[BBQ]

.

Lithium batteries become useless when temp falls below -15F.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Lithium batteries become useless when temp falls below -15F.

But they can be kept powered up and heated and located in places where they won't reach that temperature even when it gets that cold outside...

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Lithium batteries become useless when temp falls below -15F.

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

But they can be kept powered up and heated and located in places where they won't reach that temperature even when it gets that cold outside...

How long can you keep that up?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

How long can you keep that up?

With a good design and a charging source for as long as you want.

For example, Roadtrek and Advanced RV have battery heating pads and battery locations and insulation (ARV only) and underhood generator charging as needed so time is only limited by engine fuel for those systems...

When powering a load there is significant internal heating from the lithium cells so the heating pads are not running continuously and have low power usage in any case.

[booster]

I think the first question would be how the Chalet is put together to handle the cold, and how it is used. From that it would be much less guessing to try to match it to a B.

[booster]

Just looked up Chalet. What I got was A frames, is that you have?

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

With a good design and a charging source for as long as you want.

For example, Roadtrek and Advanced RV have battery heating pads and battery locations and insulation (ARV only) and underhood generator charging as needed so time is only limited by engine fuel for those systems...

When powering a load there is significant internal heating from the lithium cells so the heating pads are not running continuously and have low power usage in any case.

So, what you are saying is, the battery is useless without supplemental help.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

So, what you are saying is, the battery is useless without supplemental help.

Depends on where you locate the battery cells. If they are in the heated area of the van then nothing needs to be added. Here is an example but a little easier to locate in the heated part of a Class A than a Class B where under the rear floor seems to be the typical location necessitating the added heaters...

The “Big Beastly” Solar/Battery Upgrade Part III – Installation – Wheeling It

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Depends on where you locate the battery cells. If they are in the heated area of the van then nothing needs to be added. Here is an example but a little easier to locate in the heated part of a Class A than a Class B where under the rear floor seems to be the typical location necessitating the added heaters...

The “Big Beastly” Solar/Battery Upgrade Part III – Installation – Wheeling It

so, the battery must stay inside to stay warm, otherwise it is useless.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

so, the battery must stay inside to stay warm, otherwise it is useless.

The battery cells must be above 32 deg F to be charged and above some lower temperature to be discharged (that temp seems to vary depending on the cell). If you have a way to keep them above those temperatures using the right location in a heated space or with battery heaters in other locations then they will work just fine. As I noted, there is internal heating inside the cells when they are being charged or discharged which can reduce the amount of power used for heating which is typically done with heating pads between the cells...

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by BBQ

How long can you keep that up?

Indefinitely. My lithium ion batteries are in an insulated box below the floor with electric heating pads. The heating pads are operated directly from the batteries. So as long as you keep them charged via the engine alternator (dual alternator in my case) or shore power they will continue to heat the batteries. I've gone a full week with temperatures below freezing all the time on the road with no problems and the heating pads keep the batteries at about 41 deg. F.

The batteries while in use taking a charge, etc. will range anywhere from 10 to 20 deg. F. above ambient. My heating pads don't come on until the ambient temperatures hit the low 20s. The 10 amp electric heating pad draw is negligible with my 800ah of lithium ion batteries.

If lithium ion batteries go below -4 deg. F. they can be damaged permanently. Trying to charge them below freezing can diminish their capacity greatly. One thing you can't do is leave a lithium ion battery sitting out in -4 temperatures unused for an extended period. You have to be in a heated space, in use with charged batteries or plugged into shore power. That has to be carefully monitored in climates like Minnesota but would be a non-issue in the south.

[CuStOm]

Thanks for the input everyone.

Chalet and most truck campers are aluminum frame with vacuum bonded walls that use pink insulation. 1.5' of it. The roof on the chalet was 4" of foam. They use dometic double pane plastic windows. Then you have a heated and fully enclosed basement with all tanks and other devices inside. Set all of that in a truck bed with less thermal wind loss than something sitting exposed to the wind and you get a pretty good cold weather setup.

Regarding the Travato where most things are inside, the guy at FitRV still had to do a lot of stuff to winter camp successfully.

I am amazed that there isn't a larger usage of cassette toilets and better insulation/winter use design in the Class B world. Perhaps the oem 4x4 vans will better influence that transition.

[markopolo]

re: lifepo4 & diesel

Fuel is the limitation. If relying on the van engine you'd have to pack up and leave with enough fuel remaining to get to a gas/diesel station.

Using a Lifepo4 equipped Sprinter for an example: If you have a 26 gal tank and arrive at a remote site with .75 of a tank remaining and need .25 of a tank to get back to a fuel source then you'd have approx 13 gallons to burn for heat and power. Idling could consume .5 gph but I have no idea how much diesel you'd burn for heat.

[markopolo]

With nights at around 20F, a 20lb propane BBQ type tank would last us around 4 days in the well insulated Bigfoot Class C I had. It was a lot easier to go get the portable propane tank filled then to pack up and move the C just for propane.

Have you considered any more winter capable rigs like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wokDlTy2LHc

[mojoman]

I calculated I could keep my battery heater on for 11 days straight, but then I make it a point to live where the weather can't kill you., only earthquakes.