Underhood versus Onan

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by roadbot

Can someone share a photo of Control Panel in 210P with UG? I am looking at buying a 2016 with UG and here is the photo of panel. The plastic panel above the 2nd row seat shows the 'placeholder' cutouts that would have been used for the Onan switch and meter. I think it so very odd that RT would left the control panel so half as**d -- so am suspecting this is an after market UG -- dealer doesn't know and original window sticker not available.

No photo came through.

However, Roadtreks with UHG's usually also have Ecotrek Lithium batteries with their own separate power switch. So don't assume RT would not just use the standard panel which is the norm with probably greater than 95% came with the typical Onan generator standard.

Sounds like a factory install since UHG is very rare in the 210 models. If the model you're looking deleted the Onan, has UHG and lithiums, my bet is factory.

EDIT: Please note the current problems at Roadtrek have negated their six year factory warranty. You are buying "as is" and seller should heavily discount the price for that reason. Ecotrek lithium systems are known to be trouble-prone and very expensive to fix.
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[roadbot]

Sorry for not posting photo of the control panel.

[FrayAdjacent]

Not having a Class B yet... I need to read through this topic. I have a truck and a camper (RPod) that I use, and I got a Predator 3500 generator. It works great, and it's not very loud.

My ideal van is a Travato 59GL, although the G is likely going to be more in my price range. That generator on it, though is a freakin' travesty! I think it was the Fit RV channel on YouTube that did a sound test... 80dB standing right next to the van on the exhaust side. Holy balls! My predator is only 57dB.

Why aren't there some nice compact inverter generators available that are much quieter? It seems the RV industry mostly gave up on that.

That said, some friends of mine and I rented a Class A (I only remember it was a Thor on a Ford V10 chassis) to go up to Oshkosh, and we ran the generator on that thing, and it really was not very loud at all. I was sleeping on the dinette/bed area directly above the generator, and I didn't notice it at all at night.

I'm pretty sure it was an Onan model, because it did pop a breaker, and we had to go out and reset it. It was really very quiet.

If I could shoehorn a Predator 3500 into a Class B van, I'd be set.

I don't buy into the 'CO2 is destroying the planet' stuff (not to cause argument here), so I don't mind using a couple bucks worth of gas overnight so I can have AC on hot nights when I don't have shore power.

My primary plan is to try to find a used Travato 59GL, though. I love that system and think it would be worth a bit of a premium.

[Davydd]

For one no campground will let you run a generator all night long as they most have quiet hours usually from 10 PM to 8 AM. But if you could, a Class B is not a Class A. An Onan generator is usually directly under the bed and the air conditioner is directly over the bed in a small tin box of which most are not adequately insulated for sound. If you can sleep in a noisy sandwich all the power to you.

[FrayAdjacent]

Originally Posted by Davydd

For one no campground will let you run a generator all night long as they most have quiet hours usually from 10 PM to 8 AM. But if you could, a Class B is not a Class A. An Onan generator is usually directly under the bed and the air conditioner is directly over the bed in a small tin box of which most are not adequately insulated for sound. If you can sleep in a noisy sandwich all the power to you.

I mostly don't stay at campgrounds, I boondock at paramotor fly-in events. Usually these are in a big open field with no utilities, or at small airports, again with no utilities. Were I to stay at a campground, I'd want hookups, and wouldn't need to run a generator.

I can see occasionally staying in a parking lot (like a WalMart) overnight, as well, and I'm certainly not going to sweat all night in a $70,000, $80,000, $90,000 or $100,000 vehicle.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by FrayAdjacent

I mostly don't stay at campgrounds, I boondock at paramotor fly-in events. Usually these are in a big open field with no utilities, or at small airports, again with no utilities. Were I to stay at a campground, I'd want hookups, and wouldn't need to run a generator.

I can see occasionally staying in a parking lot (like a WalMart) overnight, as well, and I'm certainly not going to sweat all night in a $70,000, $80,000, $90,000 or $100,000 vehicle.

I have been to paramotor fly-ins and don't want a generator near me at 2:00am.

Bud

[FrayAdjacent]

Originally Posted by Bud

I have been to paramotor fly-ins and don't want a generator near me at 2:00am.

Bud

Luckily they're in big fields, and you can set up your pup tent further away :P

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by roadbot

Sorry for not posting photo of the control panel.

I had to rotate and lighten up your pic, but I see your panel with blank areas but no switches where the onan generator start switch and hour meter would go. I have seen this before on Roadtreks, but always because they were optioned with Ecotrek lithiums and under hood generator instead.

Since the van does not have the onan, it is a rare bird. If you have the Ecotrek option with lithiums and under hood generator it is vary rare (for the 210P).

So does it have the Ecotrek lithium option? If so, that is how Roadtrek does the panel.
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[Davydd]

Originally Posted by FrayAdjacent

I mostly don't stay at campgrounds, I boondock at paramotor fly-in events. Usually these are in a big open field with no utilities, or at small airports, again with no utilities. Were I to stay at a campground, I'd want hookups, and wouldn't need to run a generator.

I can see occasionally staying in a parking lot (like a WalMart) overnight, as well, and I'm certainly not going to sweat all night in a $70,000, $80,000, $90,000 or $100,000 vehicle.

Since you haven’t had a B before, you’ll learn. The best campgrounds for Class Bs don’t have hookups like here in Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument I am at now where generator hours are restricted in some campsites and limited to 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening. That’s typical for almost all public campgrounds in state parks, national parks, etc. If you run a generator at a Walmart or any such place you might get a visit by authorities and animosity from other travelers. If you park on the street or at a friends or family driveway you will be sure to get the ire of their neighbors. But if KOAs are your cup of tea, have at it.

[roadbot]

Thank you rowiebowie, I appreciate your input. I just found it so odd RT would leave the panel like that. I understand why given unusual build, but still would think they would have given panel a more finished look. Dealer claims not Ecotrek, and says batteries are AGM and clearly has UHG. But my radar is up on this -- just sad about RT, and this is just another unfortunate case like not having resource to get original window sticker that RT would have sent us. Take Care.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by roadbot

Thank you rowiebowie, I appreciate your input. I just found it so odd RT would leave the panel like that. I understand why given unusual build, but still would think they would have given panel a more finished look. Dealer claims not Ecotrek, and says batteries are AGM and clearly has UHG. But my radar is up on this -- just sad about RT, and this is just another unfortunate case like not having resource to get original window sticker that RT would have sent us. Take Care.

Well that makes me curious. Maybe it is simply a 210P with onan generator delete. If it is not lithium, then the dealer may just be referring to the Chevy engine alternator that charges coach and engine batteries as you drive.

On a total of 3 trips, we've only used our generator to run the microwave (1 hr. total in 15 months of ownership) and it's a pain to maintain. So while we could do without it, it might significantly lower the resale price and should be taken into account if you make an offer.
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[booster]

Unless it changed, the Roadtrek "build your Roadtrek" thing always listed the UHG separately from the Ecotrek, so should have been able to get a 210 with either two or four AGM batteries, I think. So the OP could have such an animal that he is looking at.


On a Chevy the UHG will be mounted on the passenger side of the front of the engine, down low and can be pretty hard to see. Look to the right of the battery past the radiator hose on you will just be able to see the pulley and front of the alternator. You can also see it through the passenger side wheel well if you lift up the splash guard and look forward. It runs on the same belt as all the other stuff, so there is not a separate belt like on the Sprinters, and I think, on the Promasters.

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by booster

<snip>
On a Chevy the UHG will be mounted on the passenger side of the front of the engine, down low and can be pretty hard to see. Look to the right of the battery past the radiator hose on you will just be able to see the pulley and front of the alternator. <snip>

Agreed, and it will be about 45 degrees down "to the right" (i.e., towards center of the van) of the heater blower when looking from the front of the van rearwards. And there should be an extra regulator for it somewhere, most likely a Balmar MC-614.

[roadbot]

Here are photos of upper alternator (Chevy Engine) and the lower UHG in a 210P. Can't say if UHG was by RT or aftermarket. Would anyone know if there are clear indicators of an aftermarket UHG vs RT installed? Or indicators of a RT Ecotrek system other than presence of UHG and Lithium batteries, e.g. special switches or meters on the control panel? Wouldn't a typically Roadtrek installed UHG (non Ecotrek) or an Ecotrek system have some form of badging or switches/monitor? Any of your thoughts is appreciated as the dealer curiously says they know nothing of history. Any Ecotrek owners out there?

[roadbot]

Uhg 201p 2016

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by roadbot

Here are photos of upper alternator (Chevy Engine) and the lower UHG in a 210P. Can't say if UHG was by RT or aftermarket. Would anyone know if there are clear indicators of an aftermarket UHG vs RT installed? Or indicators of a RT Ecotrek system other than presence of UHG and Lithium batteries, e.g. special switches or meters on the control panel? Wouldn't a typically Roadtrek installed UHG (non Ecotrek) or an Ecotrek system have some form of badging or switches/monitor? Any of your thoughts is appreciated as the dealer curiously says they know nothing of history. Any Ecotrek owners out there?

I stand corrected and learned something new today (and it's only 9:00am).

Booster and dicktill have replied that the 210P under-hood generator was an independent option from Roadtrek. That makes the picture you show almost assuredly the factory option. I don't know for sure, but just based on the odds that it left the factory with some kind of generator system (rather than none).

Now to the desirability of this model. I previously said no generator system would be a hit to resale price. But since that is not the case here, my opinion is now that this could be a very desirable model. No Ecotrek, no lithium, no Onan generator to maintain. Just start your motor and voila! Power to run your a/c, microwave (though not at the same time just like you can't with an onan).

I'm not a fan of idling my engine for power, but as I said, for the few times I've used my onan, I trade for underhood power in a heartbeat. And, a gas engine idliing (while not ideal) does not have the potential problem that the Sprinter diesels have of clogging their emissions systems. Plus, while the generator is mounted low, it does not appear to have the Promaster problem of vulnerability by protruding low enough for curb impact or cutting radiator hoses by rubbing on them. Win-win?

Wonder if there are any drawbacks that anyone knows about? Otherwise, I'm quite intrigued by the Chevy under-hood option.

[booster]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

I stand corrected and learned something new today (and it's only 9:00am).

Booster and dicktill have replied that the 210P under-hood generator was an independent option from Roadtrek. That makes the picture you show almost assuredly the factory option. I don't know for sure, but just based on the odds that it left the factory with some kind of generator system (rather than none).

Now to the desirability of this model. I previously said no generator system would be a hit to resale price. But since that is not the case here, my opinion is now that this could be a very desirable model. No Ecotrek, no lithium, no Onan generator to maintain. Just start your motor and voila! Power to run your a/c, microwave (though not at the same time just like you can't with an onan).

I'm not a fan of idling my engine for power, but as I said, for the few times I've used my onan, I trade for underhood power in a heartbeat. And, a gas engine idliing (while not ideal) does not have the potential problem that the Sprinter diesels have of clogging their emissions systems. Plus, while the generator is mounted low, it does not appear to have the Promaster problem of vulnerability by protruding low enough for curb impact or cutting radiator hoses by rubbing on them. Win-win?

Wonder if there are any drawbacks that anyone knows about? Otherwise, I'm quite intrigued by the Chevy under-hood option.

You have basically described our's, and Dick Till's, vans. Only difference is his is newer with computer alternator so using standalone, normal style, setup with a Balmar, and we have our alternators paralleled. Both Chevies, both without generator. Dick's is just finished, but ours has been running this way for several years, and we have found essentially no drawbacks to this point, but lots of benefits. No Onan is a wonderful thing and really simplifies life, for sure. Installing the second alternator and regulator is a bit of work, though, and it is a very tight fit.

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

I stand corrected and learned something new today (and it's only 9:00am).

Booster and dicktill have replied that the 210P under-hood generator was an independent option from Roadtrek. That makes the picture you show almost assuredly the factory option. I don't know for sure, but just based on the odds that it left the factory with some kind of generator system (rather than none).

Now to the desirability of this model. I previously said no generator system would be a hit to resale price. But since that is not the case here, my opinion is now that this could be a very desirable model. No Ecotrek, no lithium, no Onan generator to maintain. Just start your motor and voila! Power to run your a/c, microwave (though not at the same time just like you can't with an onan).

I'm not a fan of idling my engine for power, but as I said, for the few times I've used my onan, I trade for underhood power in a heartbeat. And, a gas engine idliing (while not ideal) does not have the potential problem that the Sprinter diesels have of clogging their emissions systems. Plus, while the generator is mounted low, it does not appear to have the Promaster problem of vulnerability by protruding low enough for curb impact or cutting radiator hoses by rubbing on them. Win-win?

Wonder if there are any drawbacks that anyone knows about? Otherwise, I'm quite intrigued by the Chevy under-hood option.

Both Booster (2007 190P) and I (2010 190P) installed the Nations second alternator on our own, i.e. it was not installed at the factory by Roadtrek, but is the same kit that they supposedly use. The alternator is nestled down by (and above) the water pump, so nowhere near the road as on the Promasters. However, it is a bit of a tight squeeze in there, and I modified their bracket and my heater hoses (I think the kit instructions say to tie them over) a bit to provide more room so there would be no interferences. Can't speak for what Roadtrek did, nor for if there actually is a problem if they didn't do the same. Attached is an early trial installation photo before I lengthened the heater hoses.

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by booster

You have basically described our's, and Dick Till's, vans. Only difference is his is newer with computer alternator so using standalone, normal style, setup with a Balmar, and we have our alternators paralleled. Both Chevies, both without generator. Dick's is just finished, but ours has been running this way for several years, and we have found essentially no drawbacks to this point, but lots of benefits. No Onan is a wonderful thing and really simplifies life, for sure. Installing the second alternator and regulator is a bit of work, though, and it is a very tight fit.

Ah, one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing, i.e., cross post.

Although mine is newer than Booster's, it has been out on the road (working fine!), and it, and no Onan are indeed wonderful things.

[booster]

Depending on year, there will also likely be a bit of difference in the area where the alternator goes. Dick and I have different wiring harness locations with his being more favorable. Ours also has a vacuum controlled water shutoff of the heater core during AC use, that isn't on his and definitely caused us some issues. Heat hose modifications are very probable if you want to be safe, as well as slightly bending the AC accumulator out of way. I think Dick's is on a 2009 Chassis.