Transit, Sprinter, Promaster, or Express for Camper Build?

[mojoman]

One problem with direct injection is the inability of the detergents in fuel to clean the intake valves since fuel never passes through them. Ford is currently having a problem with this.

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by mojoman

One problem with direct injection is the inability of the detergents in fuel to clean the intake valves since fuel never passes through them. Ford is currently having a problem with this.

Correct with their DI engines. Also having a throttle body clogging problem with the EB's. Seems to be affecting a large number

[booster]

Originally Posted by mojoman

One problem with direct injection is the inability of the detergents in fuel to clean the intake valves since fuel never passes through them. Ford is currently having a problem with this.

Interesting, I hadn't heard that. That certainly could be tied in to the intake/exhaust tuning to prevent exhaust from backing up into the intake as we just talked about. I wonder if the other manufacturers who have been doing GDI have had similar issues?

I would think diesels would also have the same type of thing, as they all are direct injection.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by mojoman

It comes down to another thing to clog or wear out that also contaminates the intake track. I prefer the method of not having one and a cleaner intake.

Some surprised Honda V6 drivers can tell you how expensive it is to replace the EGR valve. It is buried deep in the back of the engine. You pretty well have to remove the top to get to it. $$$

[bobojay]

Also back to page one here. If the note was made about the PM having more power referring to my post, I didn't say it had more power, I was referring to the acceleration for the first 50' or so.
The EB obviously has more juice by far. No comparison to the others at all. It's in a van power class all by itself....

Also interesting note about the 2017 Pentastar. I hadn't heard about the "new" EGR valve setup. Thing is, is the new DI version being installed in the PM '17 models??

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by mojoman

One problem with direct injection is the inability of the detergents in fuel to clean the intake valves since fuel never passes through them. Ford is currently having a problem with this.

Originally Posted by booster

Interesting, I hadn't heard that. That certainly could be tied in to the intake/exhaust tuning to prevent exhaust from backing up into the intake as we just talked about. I wonder if the other manufacturers who have been doing GDI have had similar issues?

I would think diesels would also have the same type of thing, as they all are direct injection.

Also, the valves can overheat and burn more easily
because they do not get the cooling benefit when fuel is blasted through them.

Toyota is remediating this problem by having BOTH direct injection and port injection in the same engine.

[mojoman]

PVC and EGR contribute to the intake side crud. I'm thinking of installing a air/oil separator like this one:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...GQEaAla98P8HAQ

[wincrasher]

I thought I had read somewhere that not having the EGR meant that you could idle for long periods without concern, thus justifying the installation of the second alternator. Am I imagining that?

If true then that would make some gas vans to have more potential for that setup than others.

[mojoman]

Also interesting note about the 2017 Pentastar. I hadn't heard about the "new" EGR valve setup. Thing is, is the new DI version being installed in the PM '17 models??

I understand, to make 2017 emissions, they are going to install the EGR/cooler assembly, other changes are a two stage oil pump, and smaller main journals to lower friction.

[booster]

Originally Posted by mojoman

PVC and EGR contribute to the intake side crud. I'm thinking of installing a air/oil separator like this one:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...GQEaAla98P8HAQ

Those are a great idea. We have had throttle body issues on several of our Ford products (Escort/Tracer) and know others that have on Ford V8s. In all the cases it was because oil and/or combustion fumes condensed around the the throttle plate or sensing holes, messing up the airflow or airflow sensing. The PCV lines go into the manifold below the plates, but when you shut off the engine, you can get water vaper/fumes coming up by gravity from the crankcase and condensing on things like the throttle plates. Short trips, cold weather make it much worse.

If you are going to the trouble to do the separator for the PCV, you may also want to track down the other end of the system, where it takes in the air for the PCV. It is usually in the non vacuum intake area above the throttle plates. This line is an even easier path for the vapor and fumes to get on things like the throttle plates, MAF and temp sensors. On the high mile stuff, with a lot of blowby, we would often take the hose off and just put a K&N washable breather on it. Worked good and you could clean it when it fouled. Depending on how you drive, that line can get a lot of airflow through it from the crankcase, as that is where the crankcase pressure goes when you are at throttle positions that reduce vacuum enough to shut off the PCV valve. High blowby can overpower the capacity of the PCV in a lot of engines, besides. All of it goes right through the throttle body in many/most setup.

What you can't get rid of is the occasional bad luck of what place in the cycle any given cylinder is when you shut off. We all have seen the gush of air come back out of a carb when you shut off and a cylinder bleeds back into the intake. Port injection helps this a lot as the entire manifold isn't full of gas.

[booster]

As a sidebar, I have never figured out why they always insist you replace a dirty throttle body. You all kinks of things about protective coatings being damaged by cleaning, etc which would be true if you just shot Gumout into them, but it you just remove them and clean them with a soapy cleaner like 409 and compressed air, they look like new in most cases. Throttle bodies at the dealer have to be one of the most overpriced pieces around.

[mojoman]

Just changed the air filter out on my Promaster gas engine and I'm quite impressed with the intake design, very large cylindrical filter, large ducting and cold air intakes through ports in the radiator top frame support. I went with an K&N, which I've installed in every vehicle I've owned in the last 20 years without problem. The price of a K&N filter is close to the price of an OEM one.

[mkguitar]

as we move into discussions of intake crud- my personal experience is that I have never had trouble with an intake on any of my efi vehicles.
I cleaned out the intake on my 2001 gmc 4.8 at about 140,000 miles and it was very very clean- credit synthetic oil and my K&N's i think.
syn is less likely to form vapor deposits...I went to the auction with my neighbor who was an inspector for one of the large wholesale auctions- he was showing my that just pulling the dipstick a couple of inches would indicate whether there is varnish through the motor.

living in AZ we have high heat and very dirty air.

I'm big on K&N's

Mike

[BBQ]

If they put this engine into the Transit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX-WpROrmt0

[mojoman]

I'm all in for high tech VVT Direct injection, turbos etc... for vehicles, but I want simplicity and less devices to fail for an RV. The current Transit and Promaster standard V6's are pretty simple for todays engine and reasonably efficient but that will eventually go away with increasing EPA standards. More MPG, lower emissions while increasing the HP/TQ will mean a more efficient engine but more parts and systems that can fail. I shouldn't have this attitude since I've never had a problem with any of the new cars I've bought in the last 25 with the exception of MB and Cadillac. The Honda,Toyota, Kia, Nissan,Acura all have operated flawlessly while I owned them.

[Keyne]

If you are looking for a Westy replacement have you thought about a Mercedes Metris based camper? I test drove a Metris several weeks ago and it drove very nicely, it's gas, and is a great size. Kind of like a baby Sprinter.

GTRV (link below and 7 in production now), Reimo Americas (prototype in process) and Recon campers (12-18mos away for Metris) are building Westy style pop up campers.

One issue I see with your requirements is the need for a big Air Conditioner... if you wanted that GTRV does put them in the doors or side walls of their vans but I haven't seen that on the Metris yet. Maybe they can help you with a solution. I wish the Danhard (Proair) nonroof AC was available like they use on Sportsmobile popups. I didn't contact Proair or GTRV on this topic because we decided to go with a 144 Sprinter instead (wife wants full toilet room and no pop-up roof).

Photos

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by BBQ

If they put this engine into the Transit...

Did they mention in the video about the sharing the development of that 10 spd with GM? Yes...Ford is starting theirs with the F-150, GM with the Camaro.
New co-developed front wheel drive trans coming also in 2018....

[mojoman]

After spending a lot of effort and $ in insulating, dual pane windows, sun screens, insulated window screens, I find I didn't need the 13500btu air conditioner, although it cools the van down fast, I could have gotten by with the smallest unit, even in the desert.

[Keyne]

It looks great for a tailgating machine. That rear deck would be awesome to bring to races. Park track side and sit in the screen deck to watch the race. However from a pure camping use the bed and other layout decisions would not be great for us.

[JemNeye77]

I also want something small in fact, I want to convert my 2010 Chrysler town and country. The Jucy RV rental is the perfect setup but I can not find where or how they actually convert them. Might be a trade secret but was hoping someone might know and share. SHhh I won't tell.
Thanks for any help.