Transit or Sprinter? Which to choose?

[Polonus]

Originally Posted by joelm

Cons:
* Rotating front seats only available with cloth manual. I'd have preferred the leather power seats

I'd pay extra to have cloth seats. I never understood why people want to sit on surface which is too cold in winter, too hot in summer and too slippery all year long.

[Paul the Gardens]

Originally Posted by jrobe

The last time I talked to the Sportsmobile people, they would not install a gasoline furnace in their vans (Espar B4 and Webasto units are the gas versions I have heard of). On there other hands there are thousands of diesel heaters in semi trucks across the country. I would love to hear a first hand review of a gas unit from someone on this forum.

Up here in Canada Safari Condo has been supplying their units with Webasto furnaces for more than 10 years. Also diesel units for their diesel conversions that were once popular. I have a Webasto on my 2018 Promaster 3500 21 feet high top gasser Safari Condo conversion, had the choice for the standard one at 7950 BTU and I took the optional 1300 BTU. It provides a dry heat compared to a Suburban propane unit, the variable fan motor turn faster when high heat is demanded and slower for less. No humidity in the windows cosy heat even in the winter. Also use it in summer early mornings in the mountains just a few minutes for confort. It works very well and does not break . Webasto dealers are all over servicing also the trucking industry and the marine industry.https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-us/

[MN1]

Gas engine vs diesel. Easier to service in all areas of US while you are on the road.

[Rdean925]

Did I miss in your post a comparison of the weight for Cargo Capacity for the Transit compared to the Gas Sprinter? Gas Sprinter compared to diesel Sprinter cargo carrying capacity?

[Polonus]

Originally Posted by MN1

Gas engine vs diesel. Easier to service in all areas of US while you are on the road.

Gas is usually much cheaper too, especially if you go off the main highway system.

Originally Posted by Rdean925

Did I miss in your post a comparison of the weight for Cargo Capacity for the Transit compared to the Gas Sprinter? Gas Sprinter compared to diesel Sprinter cargo carrying capacity?

It is not that important, because both of them can carry more then I need. I'll go with the T250/2500 class van, the T350/3500 vehicles have bigger load capacity, but harsher, stiffer suspension. I am going to go relatively light.

[BillsPaseo]

Originally Posted by Rdean925

Did I miss in your post a comparison of the weight for Cargo Capacity for the Transit compared to the Gas Sprinter? Gas Sprinter compared to diesel Sprinter cargo carrying capacity?

Don't know how it compares to the Sprinter, but a 2017 Ford Transit T350HD has a max payload of 4650 lbs. I'm guessing new ones will be pretty close to that.

Actual payload varies depending on how the van is equipped. In 2017, the diesel engine was still available, but it actually reduces payload, because the engine is heavier than the 3.5L EcoBoost.

Our Transit based 2017 Paseo has a cargo capacity of 1980 lbs (OCCC door sticker from Winnebago), so the Winnebago build must weigh somewhere in the vicinity of 2600 lbs. Maybe less, since they basically order a cargo van with the passenger van windows from Ford (an option that isn't available except to upfitters), and I'm guessing those windows weigh more than sheet metal...

[Rdean925]

Good to know. We were told the RV manufacturers/outfitters won’t build on the gas Sprinter because not enough carrying capacity by the time the build is done, and then remainder for people, water, & cargo

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Rdean925

Good to know. We were told the RV manufacturers/outfitters won’t build on the gas Sprinter because not enough carrying capacity by the time the build is done, and then remainder for people, water, & cargo

That's because the gas Sprinter is only available on the 2500 platform.

[bonnecavesman]

Originally Posted by Polonus

I am about to order a van for a base to build a campervan. I was ready to go with Transit, until I configured it - when I added everything I want it came to a whooping 50K. Then I decided to check a Sprinter. To my surprise Mercedes with gas engine was less expensive (cheaper somehow does not belong to Mercedes brand). And now I have real dilemma. What to do?

Mercedes Sprinter Pros: Nicer cab, surroundings near driver and passenger seats, better views by the windows, price, navigation system, prestige.
Cons: Underpowered engine, expensive service, infrequent dealer network.

Ford Transit Pros: Powerful engine, Ford dealer in (almost) every town, every mechanic knows Fords, cheap maintenance, bigger fuel tank
Cons: Dashboard not as nice as Sprinter's, costs more to buy.

My configurations:

Ford: Model Cargo Van, XL, Transit 250, High Roof, 148", 3.5L EcoBoost V6 Engine, 10-Speed Automatic Overdrive with SelectShift® Auxiliary, Transmission Oil Cooler 3.31 Limited Slip Axle $41,855
Paint Blue Jeans $200
Exterior Upgrade Package - SRW $360
Running Boards – Extended Length $655
Extended Range Fuel Tank (31 gallons) $285
Exterior Lighting – Front Fog Lamps $105
Short Arm Power Adjusting, Manual-Folding Mirrors $0
16" Steel Wheels with Full Silver Wheel Cover $0
235/65R16C 121/119 R BSW All-Season Tires $0
Interior
Dark Palazzo Gray Cloth, 4-Way Manual Swivel Driver and 4-Way Manual Swivel Passenger Seats $1,385
Floor Covering – Front Carpet $35
Push Down Manual Parking Brake $195
Cruise Control with Adjustable Speed Limiting Device (ASLD) $325
Dual Alternator $845
Audio Pack #28: AM/FM Stereo with Bluetooth and HD SiriusXM®, Audio Input Jack, and 8" Colored Multi-Function Touch Screen with Navigation $1,220
Accessories Roof Rack System - Four Bars $415

Payment
Base MSRP $41,855
Total of Options $6,025
Destination Charges $1,695
Total MSRP $49,575

Mercedes: Vehicle 2020 Sprinter Cargo Van
Starting at $34,495
Length 144" Wheelbase $2,775
Height High Roof $0
Powertrain Gas Engine $0
Class 2500 (4420 lbs. Payload) $1,225 / $36
Exterior Color Steel Blue $0 / $0
Interior Color Caluma Black Upholstery $56
Other Charges Destination and Delivery $1,495
Build Subtotal $40,046
Selected Packages & Accessories Comfort Package (Seat addition) $368
Edit Selections Comfort Package $262
Chrome Grille Package $280
C02 in combination with C03 $656
Exterior Lighting Package $1,553
Premium Plus Package $2,126
Driver Convenience Package $994
Rain sensor $102
Parking Package $594
Mounting rails for roof rack $290
Illuminated front exits $146
AGM BATTERY 12V 92 Ah 850 A $98
Omission of D-Rings $-15
Overhead storage slot, front center $101
Packages & Accessories Subtotal $7,555
Build Total $47,601

Engine options. Transit:
3.5L EcoBoost® V6 Engine 310 hp @ 5,000 rpm Torque 400 ft.-lbs.@ 2,500 rpm
3.5L PFDi V6 Engine 275 hp @ 6,500 rpm Torque 262 ft.-lbs.@ 3,750 rpm
All Transits have now 10-speed AT

Mercedes Sprinter:
I-4 188 hp @ 5,000 rpm Torque 258 lb-ft @ 2,500–3,500 rpm
Gas engine comes with a 9-speed AT

I am not sure if destination charges for Sprinter are included and I don't know how much I have to add for a LED/HID lights for the Transit. Sprinter has only 22-24 gallons fuel tank, but it is possible to buy auxiliary second tank. Transit EcoBoost engine is about $1,500 option.

I am living in NC and planning to go, when retired in couple of years, for trips around the USA, West Coast, Utah, Alaska - several months a year, with my wife.

I wander what is your opinion about the choice? Which would you buy to build an RV and why?

Is there a specific reason that you are opting for the gasoline engine option rather than diesel in the Sprinter? You might want to consider purchase cost factor vs fuelling costs as you seem to be speculating on long distance drives post-retirement. After 275,000 kms/ca 172,000 miles here in Canada our fuel economy from Day 1 has been 12.1 Litres per 100 kms (23.35 miles per IMPERIAL gallon) in our 2010 3.0 Litre 6 cylinder Blue Etc mercedes diesel powering a (RoadTrek converted) RS Adventurous. Current fuel price here $1.099 per Litre regular gasoline vs $.899 per Litre regular diesel ($5.00 per Imperial Gallon regular gas vs $4.09 per Litre regular diesel.

[Polonus]

Originally Posted by bonnecavesman

Is there a specific reason that you are opting for the gasoline engine option rather than diesel in the Sprinter?

Yes, two of them. Gas is available in every small town, diesel not nesesery and in small villages diesel can be much more expensive and in poor quality. Second reason is the history of the problems with DEF systems. I have third reason too. I may take it to different parts of the World. In some - they have no ultra low sulfur diesel available, in others - they soon will ban diesel vehicles all together.

[Rocinante]

Great points re: gas vs. diesel Sprinter, but I'd also be concerned that gas is only available on the 2500 chassis, with lower load capacity. Not arguing for diesel, really, more like arguing for not going with Sprinter at all, and maybe going with the Ford Transit with AWD. Seems a better choice?

[Polonus]

I think 2500 chassis would be enough, especially if we decide to go with the "midsize" body. I am almost sure that I'll go with the Transit with EcoBoost engine. Since this will not be "All Terrain Vehicle" anyway, I'll stick with the RWD and limited slip axle. If we go with the longest van, I'll add a 2 inches lift.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Polonus

Yes, two of them. Gas is available in every small town, diesel not nesesery and in small villages diesel can be much more expensive and in poor quality. Second reason is the history of the problems with DEF systems. I have third reason too. I may take it to different parts of the World. In some - they have no ultra low sulfur diesel available, in others - they soon will ban diesel vehicles all together.

I agree that DEF intro by Mercedes was painful, but am not sure if still is on the current models. I had diesels for many years but never experienced difficulties in getting fuel, but I wasn’t necessarily looking in small villages.
10-15 ppm sulfur diesel fuels are mandatory in North America and in Europe, so you must be planning to travel outside these regions.

[starrski]

Here is my 2 cents worth:
1. Start with delivery availability. FEDEX, PRIME, UPS, USPS, all the large in your town contractors, plumbers, electricians, repair people, hotel vans ..... are buying up everything in the base unit of a Class B van that manufacturers can make. (And the factory shutdowns for COVID are affecting supply now too.) Everything is white or sometimes grey or black. I can't find anything on a dealer lot that is less than MSRP, a few manufacturer incentives equaled out by dealer prep fees. and wait for delivery dates are often next year which is ok in my situation.)
2. Look at the Master Upfitter programs that have factory support. These are dealer supported, or are separate companies. (and they have a steady stream of vehicles available.) GOOGLE van conversion portland for an example that has a cluster of companies, and get ideas and components. Also, these companies are buying up a lot of the items needed to do a self conversion can't be obtained by the average guy.
3. Gas or Diesel..... Gas is more convenient, doesn't stink your hands to pump fuel, isn't a problem in winter, and until recently a buck a gallon cheaper than diesel.

Diesel, great if you drive a lot because that is where the savings come. Cost per mile is very high if you don't because maintenance is more expensive, example, Sprinter 20,000 mile or 12 months (to keep valid warranty) is $400+ because its 13-14 quarts of oil and a more expensive filter) I like sprinter because I put 100-120,000 miles on my trip vehicle within the 3 year warranty period. so in three years I do 3-4 oil changes at $400 each vs gas it was 4 a year at $100 each..... And carrying heavy loads, fuel mileage can be better. So. Drive it alot, diesel is affordable.
For van conversion: diesel can be all of your fuel needs... diesel heat, diesel bbq, diesel generator, your won't need propane tank, and that space can be used for a second diesel tank for distance, or a longer trip in the woods. (I live in washington, 150 mile stretches between fuel stations is common, lots of BLM and other public lands with primitive camping.)
I do have underhood generator, diesels idle efficiently and use very very little DEF at idle so it has little impact on the regeneration requirement. But I don't use the underhood generator that much, because I drive to charge coach batteries. I do idle a lot because I found the van heater and air conditioning better than add-on heat and air for my use. And the 12V FANTASTIC FAN is huge. It provides ventilation by sucking in from any window, not just where I sleep, quiet... WINTER MOISTURE and condensation is a big problem and fan helps alot.

4.) WHEELBASE. A 140 in wheelbase is more maneuverable in parking lots, and narrow gravel roads, slow speed stuff
The 170 lengths are way better at highway speeds, windy, bumpy, and any bad weather. Less tiring to drive for long hours at a time, a lot less "white knuckle" stressful driving in weather.
ESPECIALLY IF HIGH VAN BODY is selected.
and high van won't fit in a typical garage at either wheelbase.
Parking lots, I park in the less crowded part of the lot and take two spots with my long wheelbase Sprinter, the same as I do with a pickup pulling the trailer. And after a drive, I need to walk.
Maneuvering in normal driving, not an issue if you have had a pickup or full SUV, or pulled trailers. My wife gets final test drive decision before purchase, so has no concerns driving in town streets, or highway. Around town, she uses the rule of thumb to go straight until sliding door is past the curb before you make the right turn....

Wheelbase is the same as a pickup or an SUV, Chevy Tahoe to Suburban, or Ford Edge - Explorer - Expedition. Are you a town driver or a highway driver? Or do you go off road or just gravel roads....

5. SUSPENSION. Sway bars, heavy shocks, load leveling, weight rating of tires, etc. are all go big or go home. Converted vans are heavy, tall center of gravity, and you always carry more stuff than you ever thought you would. Five gallons of water is 35 lbs... and it adds up fast. Stopping, swaying, and road wander are all different than an everyday car or SUV.

6. Accessories. Since you listed all of the fancy dash features, you probably won't be happy with any dash in a van.... Get smartphone adaptability that works great. Worry about driving features instead, lane alert, back and side view cameras, wind stabilization, automatic headlights. Usually one step up from base work van has a bundled package of most often. And choose audio, video, navigation you like... Sprinter navigation is very good, update subscription expensive, always out of date, and it is attached to that van only. I have been using RAND MCNALLY trucker/rv system for 5 years now... free upgrades, wifi compatible, can pre-map trips on PC and save them... real time weather and road updates, routes that choose routes easier to drive in a bigger vehicle. I haven't updated the BECKER navigation in my Sprinter in 3 years because I don't use it. Speakers are driven through the DVD player using blue tooth..... tv and computer are same monitor, Sirius XM has been a must have. Cargo vans mostly go to fleet buyers, so stuff like seats are like like tires, good chance you will replace anyway to get your preference. A word of caution, more and more states have car seat laws with $$+ fines to considered in your decisions.

7. Batteries and stuff. KEEP VEHICLE AND CONVERSION SEPARATE electrically as much as you can. And two small is more versatile than one big. If diesel, look at marine products for your components. More options and more available, but more expensive. BUT Vans are like big boats, they bounce, bang, have moisture issues, etc.

And especially look at stuff like YETI Goal Zero .... I have been using the YETI 1000 which is the size of 24 can cooler, includes invertor and charging, 110 and 12V, with USB, solar attachments, and portable so I can take in the house to charge or put it in different places in the van to balance the load evenly for what I take on the trip...AND QUIET, moisture proof... and 1,000 amp-hour. there are many others brands and options coming out now, like EGO, etc. off the shelf and idiot proof. I don't want to spend all my time with maintenance and fixing. And remember to include replacement costs in your design, batteries are an expensive maintenance cost, and that doesn't change if its AGM, Gel, lithium, etc. And batteries are hot and cold sensitive affecting the efficiency and life span.

I travel with a full office of electronics and files, so stable power source and a place to store computers, monitors (is my TV too) printer, scanner, and now even stuff to ZOOM meetings, with lots and lots of USB ports everywhere has become essential.

9. Look at the aftermarket stuff from cabinets, to tie down systems, etc. May look expensive, but build-it-yourself looks easy.. Not. Focus on pick and choose. I bring in snow, sand, gravel, dust, mud are always there to be cleaned again. Lately, it is the sanitizing too. And lately, I am probably going to put some internal security alarms and in-out cameras because class b vans are starting to get targeted for break-ins.

8. (I lost count....) INSULATION. Hot, cold and noise are all solved with insulation. Insulate over all metal without seems at the metal. Watch for moisture problems, and gaps that collect dirt.

10. STRAP everything down tight. Vans flex. If its permanent, find good anchor points. Mercedes builds them into sprinter. So does Ram and Ford. Get their master upfitter manuals and it shows the mounting points, electrical connection spots like for 2nd under hood battery, and other MUST and DEFINITELY DON"T stuff. (I have put screws and bolts through the outside wall a few times, and roof rack mounting points are crital for cargo racks or solar panels.) Build in places for tie down straps for cargo and everything else, just like they say on the AIRPLANE to be careful opening overhead bins....

10. Notice I haven't said anything about brand yet. You have learned to drive and think like a chevy, ford, honda, volvo, mercedes person. All the german cars have everything backwards if you are used to an american manufacturer.. from side of the steering wheel to forward for cruise control, shifter, lights, to downshifting, or even where to find the key or push button to start it. And maintenance schedules, Insurance, license and registration taxes, etc.

RENT each of them for a weekend trip. The decision gets easier. You will figure out what annoys you really quick. Too slow leaving a stop light, doesn't turn tight enough, stupid cup holder, good on curvy roads, crummy climbing hills,


Decide your use, then see what fits. Vans are changing designs and features now like when SUV's took over from station wagons. I just helped a friend that lives in near sacramento find a 2016 gmc cargo van with 6,000 miles for $18K from a dealer, with a year warranty, that was a lease return. He needed to get it in a carport, so is starting out simple and plans to put in a pop-up top after getting the base unit done.

Virtual car buying is fun. But its fantasy land.
But you want the driving and use to be lots and lots of fun.

Just do it.

FYI, my dad and first conversion was a brand new teal blue 1969 Ford Econoline Window Van - empty. My first conversion was a 1978 Toyota FJ6 jeep style, then a few volvo wagons, 80 Land Cruiser, 4 suburbans (1 Tahoe) 3 Escalade ESV, and now on driving second Sprinter. all driven more than 100,000 miles. Getting more comfort creature needs as I get older. My family has had everything from tent campers to truck campers, class a, b, c and wrecked a few too. Currently, 2016 Sprinter 3500 XL dually 4WD. (my loads are getting heavier, my need for comfort greater, and the dually has been surprisingly helpful for stability, traction, without significant effect on fuel mileage.)
My starting 2 criteria are safety at interstate speeds in all weather, and 4WD. Only the Econoline and one of volvo wagons have been Rear wheel drive, and none front wheel drive.

Nobody keeps their first Class B forever. If you love it, you will start planning your second one. If not,.... GO HAVE FUN.

[a.brusanowski]

There is no way around this for me— Sprinter chassis, as stylish as it is, is simply too narrow. Especially for two people.

[a.brusanowski]

Sprinter chassis is too narrow.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by a.brusanowski

Sprinter chassis is too narrow.

I agree that Sprinter is narrower than Promaster by about 2” but it is perfectly good for us and many other folks. Impact of the width dimension is primarily on left/right bed orientation. Our bed orientation is fore aft and we are OK with our 144” WB Sprinter.

[mtmdatlanta]

Actually, the Promaster is up to 4" wider than the Sprinter, and even more so toward the ceiling, as the Sprinter body curves in more. A lot of Promaster beds are 74" crosswise, whereas most Sprinters can only manage 70". The Transit is between the two; The Paseo had a 73" crosswise bed, but Pleasureway gets less, possibly due to increased insulation. The Transit also has the most headroom of 6'6", as compared to 6'2" in the others. The Transit is also wide at the top.

Try talking to the folks at Embassy RV. They build on all of the chassis, Are all-season capable, and have unique solutions to RV issues, such as no wood or propane, and a unique bladder system for their water and grey tanks. They have have a unique toilet that uses bags instead of tanks. Watch the video. Also, they can get 4wd or awd on the Sprinters and the Transits.

[Bungawoosie]

I would fast forward and get the Winnebago’s Revel 4x4

[Davydd]

Narrower vans are easier and safer to park in narrow stalls and parallel parking on streets. Less door banging.

Sprinters are adequate in width. I judge if you can design a van so people can pass between each other in a narrow aisle which you can in a Sprinter. The only advantage is sleeping sideways in a wider van which I would never design unless I was a solo traveler.

It's moot for me. We already have our next van, a 144 WB Sprinter 2500 chassis waiting to be converted.