Tire change tribulations

[Mean_Jeanne]

Aloha all:

I purchased new tires for MJ (RT 170P) from Costco and had them shipped to the warehouse with an appointment to have them changed out; however, when I brought MJ in, the manager in the tire shop said they couldn't do it because the vehicle had been "modified" (yeah, it's now a roadtrek), and too heavy. I asked him how heavy "too heavy" was...he couldn't answer that question; then when I showed him how much MJ weighed he said that was fine. But then he was suddenly concerned about "lift points", got down and looked underneath, hummed and hawed and said lift points wouldn't work...and refused to change my tires.

This is confusing to me; I had brake work done at Big O a year before and there wasn't a problem with "lift points"?! It seems like he was looking for an excuse not to change my tires, for what ever reason. I told the store I was very disappointed in lack of service/dubious reason for it, and I got a call from the warehouse manager asking for pictures or explanation of lift points so he can address with the tire shop. Has anyone encountered a problem like this before with a shop...any suggestions/pictures of lift points I can provide?

Mahalo in advance

Mike

[booster]

Originally Posted by Mean_Jeanne

Aloha all:

I purchased new tires for MJ (RT 170P) from Costco and had them shipped to the warehouse with an appointment to have them changed out; however, when I brought MJ in, the manager in the tire shop said they couldn't do it because the vehicle had been "modified" (yeah, it's now a roadtrek), and too heavy. I asked him how heavy "too heavy" was...he couldn't answer that question; then when I showed him how much MJ weighed he said that was fine. But then he was suddenly concerned about "lift points", got down and looked underneath, hummed and hawed and said lift points wouldn't work...and refused to change my tires.

This is confusing to me; I had brake work done at Big O a year before and there wasn't a problem with "lift points"?! It seems like he was looking for an excuse not to change my tires, for what ever reason. I told the store I was very disappointed in lack of service/dubious reason for it, and I got a call from the warehouse manager asking for pictures or explanation of lift points so he can address with the tire shop. Has anyone encountered a problem like this before with a shop...any suggestions/pictures of lift points I can provide?

Mahalo in advance

Mike

Costco seems to extremely liability concerned from what I have heard. Won't do any tire size/rating other than what is on the sticker or inflate to any pressure except what is on the sticker either. Also heard some can't handle the weight on their lifts, plus underbody damage issue worry. They probably won't even put them on the wheels if you bring in the wheels separately so they don't have to lift it. It wouldn't hurt to ask if you could do that.


Other than that you may have to just cancel the tire order and go to a tire store where the either can lift it or put them on off of jacks, which is no big deal for them.

[Mean_Jeanne]

Hey Booster:

Thanks for the message. Funny, they did offer to change the tires onto the rims...if I pulled them off myself and brought them in; I didn't have that capability, so it wasn't a viable options. I'm trying to leave space for them that the concerns you raised are the reason(s) they wouldn't change them out...just strange that the guy seemed to be fishing for a reason not to do so.

[mkguitar]

any service facility has to be notified (" warned") of the weight and height of our vans.


I have had costco do tire swaps, I have also had same location ask me to bring in the wheels ( I'd already paid online.)


the last swap in 2020 was US chain Discount Tire who did 1 side at a time using floor jacks to jack one side, one complete- then the other. They had like 5 guys on my van and I was out in 40 minutes.
They also price matched costco.


Costco tire centers now appear to be operated by a separate corp.


- they no longer stock prius tires ( 1/2 the cars in a costco parking lot are priuses) ... again I am off to the other place.

[RT-NY]

Originally Posted by Mean_Jeanne

...he was suddenly concerned about "lift points", got down and looked underneath, hummed and hawed and said lift points wouldn't work...and refused to change my tires.

This is confusing to me; I had brake work done at Big O a year before and there wasn't a problem with "lift points"?! It seems like he was looking for an excuse not to change my tires, for what ever reason. I told the store I was very disappointed in lack of service/dubious reason for it, and I got a call from the warehouse manager asking for pictures or explanation of lift points so he can address with the tire shop. Has anyone encountered a problem like this before with a shop...any suggestions/pictures of lift points I can provide?

In my 1999 RT 170, it is not possible to get it up onto a standard lift because the lift points are either covered up by the water tanks (black/grey/fresh) or are inaccessible because of the skirting. The only options are finding a shop with a "drive-on" lift or using jack stands to work on it. You didn't mention the year of your 170, but I expect it is the same in this regard. Perahps the "Big O" had a drive on life or used jackstands. I think that RT 170/190 owners will always run into problems finding shops that are willing to work on them for this reason and need to plan accordingly. But they are great little RVs and worth the trouble!

[Deano]

When I had my RT 210 I took it to a major Chevy dealer for several different services that required it being raised on a lift.
Later, my Daughter took it to them for a transmission problem and was told they couldn't work on it because it was too heavy. Go figure!
She then took it to a different Chevy dealer who had no problem working on it.

[RT-NY]

Originally Posted by Deano

When I had my RT 210 I took it to a major Chevy dealer for several different services that required it being raised on a lift.
Later, my Daughter took it to them for a transmission problem and was told they couldn't work on it because it was too heavy. Go figure!
She then took it to a different Chevy dealer who had no problem working on it.

I imagine that the 210 is heavier than the 170, but regarding the lift points they are probably a lot more accessible on the 210. I don't know about the 190, but in the 170, there is so little space under the van that the RV stuff is packed close together, and I have never found anyone who could get it up on a lift and not for lack of trying or good will! I have, however, found shops that were willing to work on it with jackstands, though I have also had shops turn me down for this reason.

And again, a drive-on lift is always good if you can find a shop that has one.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RT-NY

I imagine that the 210 is heavier than the 170, but regarding the lift points they are probably a lot more accessible on the 210. I don't know about the 190, but in the 170, there is so little space under the van that the RV stuff is packed close together, and I have never found anyone who could get it up on a lift and not for lack of trying or good will! I have, however, found shops that were willing to work on it with jackstands, though I have also had shops turn me down for this reason.

And again, a drive-on lift is always good if you can find a shop that has one.

Some shops have lift the lift attachments that are basically like the top half of a jackstand and mount at the ends of the lift arms. My bet is all Roadtreks would have enough opening to sneak them through to the frame, I know our 07 190 Chevy would because I have had it on stands. The rear can be lifted from the rear axle center to position stands if you are working off the floor and need to let the axle hang. Most vans up to the later Chevies can be lifted in the front from the front crossmember to position stands. I do lift our later version with the crossmember but use a jack on each end to prevent the weakened center area they used starting in 2003.

[RT-NY]

Originally Posted by booster

Some shops have lift the lift attachments that are basically like the top half of a jackstand and mount at the ends of the lift arms. My bet is all Roadtreks would have enough opening to sneak them through to the frame, I know our 07 190 Chevy would because I have had it on stands. The rear can be lifted from the rear axle center to position stands if you are working off the floor and need to let the axle hang. Most vans up to the later Chevies can be lifted in the front from the front crossmember to position stands. I do lift our later version with the crossmember but use a jack on each end to prevent the weakened center area they used starting in 2003.

I put my 170 up on jackstands all the time. At the rear axle at the back, and at the frames just behind the front wheels in front (as you say there is just enough room to sneak them in) but I have never found a shop willing or able to do that with a lift.

I jack it up in the back from the differential and in the front from the crossmember.

Getting it up onto jackstands is easy and safe and can be done very quickly with a good floor jack. But I would love to hear from any forum members who has been able to convince a garage to put a Dodge 170 on a reguar lift.

In this, the difference between a 170 and a 190 and a 200/210 is very significant, I think.

[jjrbus]

It is frustrating getting things done. My long term mechanic unfriended me when I bought the RT and will not work on it.

I have an 02C200P and like to do my own work as much as I can. I pay extra attention the right front lift point on mine as it is uncomfortably close to holding tank and lines. The man that replaced my rear springs a true pro, said it was difficult getting the RT in the right spot on his lift. and had to pull a heat shield.

I had a rotation done at Discount tire, they put 80 psi in the front tires and 65 in the rear!! When I get turned down for service I am happy that they know their limits!! I do not argue or challenge them I simply move on and find someone who will do what I need.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RT-NY

I put my 170 up on jackstands all the time. At the rear axle at the back, and at the frames just behind the front wheels in front (as you say there is just enough room to sneak them in) but I have never found a shop willing or able to do that with a lift.

I jack it up in the back from the differential and in the front from the crossmember.

Getting it up onto jackstands is easy and safe and can be done very quickly with a good floor jack. But I would love to hear from any forum members who has been able to convince a garage to put a Dodge 170 on a reguar lift.

In this, the difference between a 170 and a 190 and a 200/210 is very significant, I think.

As you say you can get to the front Ok, and the rear can go on the axle housings. It you need to let the rear axle hang for that kind of rear repair, you need to find a point on the frames on both sides. My guess is that you could as it only needs to be a few inches of clear frame, but that is a guess. If all else fails, I have seen shops put the stands lift arm extensions on the front eye of the rear leaf springs. That can limit downtravel of the axle, but does seem to work. Can't say if it is bad to put that much weight there, though, but if it is on front stands, the rear weight drops a lot with the engine forward of the stands.

[RT-NY]

Originally Posted by booster

As you say you can get to the front Ok, and the rear can go on the axle housings. It you need to let the rear axle hang for that kind of rear repair, you need to find a point on the frames on both sides. My guess is that you could as it only needs to be a few inches of clear frame, but that is a guess. If all else fails, I have seen shops put the stands lift arm extensions on the front eye of the rear leaf springs. That can limit downtravel of the axle, but does seem to work. Can't say if it is bad to put that much weight there, though, but if it is on front stands, the rear weight drops a lot with the engine forward of the stands.

The front is exactly the problem! I only said that I can get to the front OK using jackstands - but only with extra large jackstands. This does not mean it can be done with a lift. The frame is way off the ground at that point just behing the front wheels (it curves down lower towards the back but then it is covered up by tanks, etc.) and the skirting prevents the arms of a regular lift from getting close. You would need a very long extension - I would have to measure it to be sure but it could be 20" or more and there is very little flat space available at the frame there. And it is sneaking through a small space opened up between the crossmember assembly and the tie rods.

Belive me, I would be very happy if it were possible to get this rig up on a lift. But I have had more than one mechanic, some very good and very honest, who tried everything that they could think of and failed. If someone with a 170 has had a shop succeed at this, I would be grateful to know specifically how they did it.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RT-NY

The front is exactly the problem! I only said that I can get to the front OK using jackstands - but only with extra large jackstands. This does not mean it can be done with a lift. The frame is way off the ground at that point just behing the front wheels (it curves down lower towards the back but then it is covered up by tanks, etc.) and the skirting prevents the arms of a regular lift from getting close. You would need a very long extension - I would have to measure it to be sure but it could be 20" or more and there is very little flat space available at the frame there. And it is sneaking through a small space opened up between the crossmember assembly and the tie rods.

Belive me, I would be very happy if it were possible to get this rig up on a lift. But I have had more than one mechanic, some very good and very honest, who tried everything that they could think of and failed. If someone with a 170 has had a shop succeed at this, I would be grateful to know specifically how they did it.

Just imagine the jackstand you use attached to the top of the moveable arms of a 4 post lift, sticking up vertically like you do, the floor would just move in your case. Very common on big truck maintenance where the frames are way up off the ground. Like this only taller.

[RT-NY]

Originally Posted by booster

Just imagine the jackstand you use attached to the top of the moveable arms of a 4 post lift, sticking up vertically like you do, the floor would just move in your case. Very common on big truck maintenance where the frames are way up off the ground.

It's still not quite the same because I have to tilt the jackstands in order to be able to work them through the small space in front of the tie rods. It's not at all hard to do by hand, but that does not mean that it can be done with extensions sticking up vertically from the arms of a lift.

So it *might* be possible in theory with the right place with the right extensions, but even so I am not certain. And it is certainly true that anyone (like the OP) who has or is thinking of getting a 170 needs to be prepared to be turned away from the great majority of shops. Still worth it in my eyes, but there it is.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RT-NY

It's still not quite the same because I have to tilt the jackstands in order to be able to work them through the small space in front of the tie rods. It's not at all hard to do by hand, but that does not mean that it can be done with extensions sticking up vertically from the arms of a lift.

So it *might* be possible in theory with the right place with the right extensions, but even so I am not certain. And it is certainly true that anyone (like the OP) who has or is thinking of getting a 170 needs to be prepared to be turned away from the great majority of shops. Still worth it in my eyes, but there it is.

The extensions are put in after the vehicle is above the lift arms. All the space you need is enough to get the extension and attached to arm. You could never drive past them as they would hit. As I said, truck shops use these a lot. IIRC, and it was nearly 15 years ago, I think I saw some of these at the Roadtrek Kitchener plant when we took the plant tour in 2009. They probably were made for the specific height they needed at each work station and depending on it if the tanks, etc, were in place yet. I saw many of these in the 70s when I often was at suspension shops for various reasons, usually on the old center cylinder hydraulic lifts you used to see in all the gas stations and shops.

[RT-NY]

Originally Posted by RT-NY

...it is certainly true that anyone (like the OP) who has or is thinking of getting a 170 needs to be prepared to be turned away from the great majority of shops. Still worth it in my eyes, but there it is.

Though I should qualify this because I have no experience with RV specific garages. I would guess that they are more likely to have drive-on lifts or be more willing to use jackstands and also to have more experience with working around RV mods. So I expect that you would have more success at such places, though I image also would pay a lot more.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RT-NY

Though I should qualify this because I have no experience with RV specific garages. I would guess that they are more likely to have drive-on lifts or be more willing to use jackstands and also to have more experience with working around RV mods. So I expect that you would have more success at such places, though I image also would pay a lot more.

Drive on lifts can work also, but are not good if you have to remove wheels and such the require no weight on the suspension. But..



Many drive on lifts will have sliding cross arms between the drive on ramps so you can put a bottle jack on them to lift the wheel off the ground, assuming the there is a frame section you can reach. Automotive ones may not have enough capacity on the crossbars to do that on a 10K van, but semi truck lifts the can put a jack in the middle of the front and lift it up. This most often done over pits, not on full lifts.

[KurtFranz]

I had new tires installed on my 02 chevy 190 at the Costco in Bradenton FL. I spoke to the manager and explained the whole deal to him. I showed him the jack points, but he already knew where they were. He also knew that he would have to install the tires "on the floor" as they do not have the heavy duty lift needed to raise the van and then jack up each wheel while lifted.

Everything went smoothly with no issues. I guess it depends on the Costco location you visit.

2002 Roadtrek 190 Versatile - 4/2/23 - Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo 3 - roadtrek190.com

[jjrbus]

Kurt is spot on, depends on the location. Each manager knows his crew and a manager at one shop may have no problem doing the job. The same manager at another shop would decline doing the same job because he does not trust the crew.

Lots of variables, best to move on and find another shop which is a pain.

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

It is frustrating getting things done. My long term mechanic unfriended me when I bought the RT and will not work on it.

I have an 02C200P and like to do my own work as much as I can. I pay extra attention the right front lift point on mine as it is uncomfortably close to holding tank and lines. The man that replaced my rear springs a true pro, said it was difficult getting the RT in the right spot on his lift. and had to pull a heat shield.

I had a rotation done at Discount tire, they put 80 psi in the front tires and 65 in the rear!! When I get turned down for service I am happy that they know their limits!! I do not argue or challenge them I simply move on and find someone who will do what I need.

Dunno where in FLA you live but I have a shop local to me in Lake County near Leesburg that ain't askeered of working on class B vans. They put a new exhaust system on my y2kC200. Not sure iff'n I can or should post it up here, shoot me a PM if you want.