Thor has officially bought Hymer

[gerrym51]

Could 25 percent Trump tariffs for Canada vehicles into USA give an impetus to moving Roadtrek to Indiana.

the answer is I don't know

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Could 25 percent Trump tariffs for Canada vehicles into USA give an impetus to moving Roadtrek to Indiana.

the answer is I don't know

Hymer just invested a ton of money in their current Canadian location for a new manufacturing facility. It would be sad to move any production to Indiana.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Hymer just invested a ton of money in their current Canadian location for a new manufacturing facility. It would be sad to move any production to Indiana.

is a building a 'ton of money' . the tooling in the building can be moved.

a lot to you and me is probably not a lot to thor.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

is a building a 'ton of money' . the tooling in the building can be moved.

a lot to you and me is probably not a lot to thor.

Knowing Thor as a company, I am pretty sure they would not want to disappoint prospective/return RoadTrek customers expecting superior Canadian manufacturing quality and workmanship. /s

Roadtrek has a long history of Canadian manufacture and customer service often spoken of...

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Knowing Thor as a company, I am pretty sure they would not want to disappoint prospective/return RoadTrek customers expecting superior Canadian manufacturing quality and workmanship. /s

Roadtrek has a long history of Canadian manufacture and customer service often spoken of...

Most roadtrek customers are in usa . 25 percent tariff makes a 150,000 roadtrek 190,000.

[VocalVirgo]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

That's exactly why I'm planning a custom build. I've been looking at class B vans for a while and I have yet to discover a van by a major brand that I'd actually buy, not a single one. At this point, I'm planning to either build out my own, which I really don't want to do, or go with someone like Sportsmobile or maybe even Advanced RV if I hit the lottery lol.

That was my EXACT thought 1.5 years ago (after looking at a Sunlight V1), so I did just that, I built my own. I put in all the things I wanted, and none of the things I didn’t. I really like Advanced RV, the people are great and they do good work. And they will build it any way you want. But I can not (obviously) recommend Sportsmobile. I did have them put just the penthouse electric top on my van, but they did such a poor job, with even worse warranty repairs (or no repairs at all). And they aren’t even very nice people- and they should be... so nix the thought of even thinking Sportsmobile. I just did you a favor.

My advice: Draw out 5 different floor plans and then give yourself a few weeks to decide which one will really serve you the best and be the most future-proof. But trust me, even after that, you’ll miss something. And write a list of your “must-haves”, and then don’t give in to not havinging them in your build.

Good luck and just know that it will be 10 times more fun building out a custom van than you think .

[Knit]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

I hope the economies of scale enabled by this merger will allow them to dramatically improve build quality across the board, particularly at Roadtrek. They offer some of the shoddiest quality in the industry, despite being relatively expensive vans. The RV industry, as a whole, needs to get far more serious about build quality, especially as prices continue to rise.

Since you don’t own one, how would you know about the quality? I have a 2013 and have no significant build quality issues. The current RS and CS are virtually the same. Roadtrek is about 1/3 of the Class B market. They are doing some things right to have this success.

I paid way less than list. How much off of list do you expect at the custom builders you mention do you expect? My RS has a functional layout, ok appliances, ok finishers and it works. And the best part is I was able to use it from the day I bought it. Is it perfect? no. Were there problems? Yes. Were the problems much different from the thousands of forum posts I have read? No.

Some day when I’m ready I will do my own 4x4 conversion. I will probably pay way more than I spent on my RS for the last five years. Best wishes when you have enough to afford the van of your dreams. I will already enjoyed 10 years in my Roadtrek by then.

[michaelingp]

Thanks, Knit. I agree with you. The complaints about "build quality" seem mostly confined to this forum. I don't care, because everybody has a right to their opinion, but I'm concerned that folks new to the forum may be scared away from vehicles that most likely will meet their needs for years and years. If I had spent much time on the Internet, I would probably never have bought my 2001 Roadtrek 190P, which subsequently not only gave me 15 years of great camping, but sold for much closer to what I paid (used) than I would have ever expected. Was it perfect? Not at all, but it met our needs.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

Thanks, Knit. I agree with you. The complaints about "build quality" seem mostly confined to this forum. I don't care, because everybody has a right to their opinion, but I'm concerned that folks new to the forum may be scared away from vehicles that most likely will meet their needs for years and years. If I had spent much time on the Internet, I would probably never have bought my 2001 Roadtrek 190P, which subsequently not only gave me 15 years of great camping, but sold for much closer to what I paid (used) than I would have ever expected. Was it perfect? Not at all, but it met our needs.

This is a systemic problem with forums in general. New arrivals to any forum inevitably experience difficulty parsing drive-by cheap shots from objective criticism. Perhaps forum moderators should assign their subscribers a FICO credibility score.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by Knit

............................. Roadtrek is about 1/3 of the Class B market. They are doing some things right to have this success......................

The current market share report - SSI: 'B' Sales Stay Strong, up 29% for 7 Months | RV Business shows:

Winnebago Industries Inc. topping the list at 37.6%
Erwin Hymer Group North America at 30.5%
Thor Industries Inc. at 11.3%

Class B Brands within Erwin Hymer Group North America to get to that 30.5% include: Hymer, Carado, Roadtrek and Sunlight.

What percentage of EHGNA is Roadtrek? Who knows. If you assume 50% then the Roadtrek brand would have maybe 15% of the B market place.

Back in 2008 Roadtrek had 62.6% market share! http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f9...ents-2385.html - Are they doing something right or doing something wrong?

I don't know what the future holds for the Roadtrek brand at this point. It will be interesting to see what Thor does with it.

[Knit]

Marcopolo

Thanks for pointing out that I should have said Hymer not Roadtrek. When I bought my Sprinter based RS in 2013, pretty much the only Sprinter class Bs actually on dealer lots were Winnebago, Airstream and Roadtrek in my area partly because there are relatively few Class Bs compared to other RVs and partly because of the recession. As my first one, I wasn’t quite ready for a custom one like a Sportsmobile. There are more choices now with more eurovan platforms available

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

...The complaints about "build quality" seem mostly confined to this forum. .. If I had spent much time on the Internet, I would probably never have bought my 2001 Roadtrek 190P, which subsequently not only gave me 15 years of great camping,

You obviously are not on the numerous Facebook Roadtrek/Hymer pages where, as usual, people are looking for help with problems. LOL (probably 50/50 between user error and quality control issues) I would assume that some people are scared away from the product by these postings.

The 2001 product built by Roadtrek has limited relationship to the products turned out after the purchase by the investment company in 2011. The emphasis on quantity rather than quality has been obvious with some slow improvement after the purchase by Hymer. The move to higher tech and getting rid the old tried and true systems have also presented problems with owner learning curves. Instead of the simple Suburban heat and hot water systems (which I requested on my new rig), some have a combination system with the glitchy Girard for hot water, some have the full Alde, and Hymer is using the Truma Combi system. But there seems to be many issues with venting and wiring, and a lack of testing of the systems before they land on the dealer lots... which adds another layer of abilities to make the rig workable.

It will be interesting to see what Thor does with this situation, but with their reputation, one is not optimistic of much more improvement.

I do feel sorry for the many exceptionally patient and helpful people who work in the various EHGNA departments, who are again thrown into a situation way too full of question marks for their positions.

[booster]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

Thanks, Knit. I agree with you. The complaints about "build quality" seem mostly confined to this forum. I don't care, because everybody has a right to their opinion, but I'm concerned that folks new to the forum may be scared away from vehicles that most likely will meet their needs for years and years. If I had spent much time on the Internet, I would probably never have bought my 2001 Roadtrek 190P, which subsequently not only gave me 15 years of great camping, but sold for much closer to what I paid (used) than I would have ever expected. Was it perfect? Not at all, but it met our needs.

I agree with Mumkin and cruising7388, and I think you are misunderstanding this forum because you haven't been here through all the Roadtrek issues.


I think this forum has a reputation for being the most technically competent class b forum around, and likely also high end for all RV forums. People show up here after they have been everywhere else trying to get help, have been thrown off Facebook by Roadtrek so the problems can't be seen by others, and been told by Roadtrek and dealers they are on their own. Some have even been threatened with legal action if they kept posting about their problems, and/or their warranty claims would be moved to the bottom of the schedule. For these reasons you do see more of the Roadtrek problems here, as Roadtrek has not been able to successfully censor this forum, even though they have tried. Early on in the etrek rollout fiasco, they did send their hired guns here to argue that everyone was stupid and not capable of understanding how great Roadtrek was. Even the president of Roadtrek posted about "armchair engineers" who were incompetent. (of course it turned out the armchair folks were correct when all the facts came in). Members of the Roadtrek Facebook group will get thrown of it if the are found to be posting here.



As was mentioned, there certainly are posts that are not supported by facts or data, and those certainly do need to be questioned and/or ignored. But if you are looking for hard core research, facts, and analysis of things I think you will find this place better than most others. You probably also will not likely find a place that is willing to help and work with you on problems as much as you will here.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Back in 2008 Roadtrek had 62.6% market share! http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f9...ents-2385.html - Are they doing something right or doing something wrong?

It's a smaller slice but isn't it a substantially bigger pie? In any event, if you're selling everything you have the capacity to build, how relevant is the metric of market share? Does every successful business plan have to be geared for dominating market share? LTV has little market share but it nevertheless seems to be a very successful enterprise.

[gerrym51]

Travato did not exist in 2008

[markopolo]

Two other EHGNA companies:

Cliffride – Custom Parts for Jeep JK Models

https://www.americanfastbacks.com/

This article might have been already posted here:

Thor's Martin Sees 'Mutual Benefits' with Hymer | RV Business

While he didn’t expect North American products to be sent over to Europe – U.S.-built RVs are too big and heavy for Europe’s tight and weight-restricted roads – Martin saw an opportunity to leverage EHG’s campervan products for North America’s Class B customers.
“We see that as our opportunity for the younger buyer, the Millennial that’s coming into the market, and as we talk more to (EHG’s) management team, they have the same phenomena. They have the same demographics in Europe, so that’s why it’s taking off there,” Martin said.
“They build products that are basically minivans,” he continued, “that have a pop-top tent and the only RV component is a sink and a stove that actually comes out. People can use this as an every-day driver. So they’ve been very creative in really reaching that younger buyer and producing units that are lower cost as well. And that’s what’s reaching the younger buyers again. So I see those opportunities for our companies just to share, just as we do here.”

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by Knit

Since you don’t own one, how would you know about the quality? I have a 2013 and have no significant build quality issues. The current RS and CS are virtually the same. Roadtrek is about 1/3 of the Class B market. They are doing some things right to have this success.

I paid way less than list. How much off of list do you expect at the custom builders you mention do you expect? My RS has a functional layout, ok appliances, ok finishers and it works. And the best part is I was able to use it from the day I bought it. Is it perfect? no. Were there problems? Yes. Were the problems much different from the thousands of forum posts I have read? No.

Some day when I’m ready I will do my own 4x4 conversion. I will probably pay way more than I spent on my RS for the last five years. Best wishes when you have enough to afford the van of your dreams. I will already enjoyed 10 years in my Roadtrek by then.

You can't be serious. I have eyes and I can read. I've comparison shopped countless vans over the last few years and research them online, just like everyone else who is in the market. The suggestion that you have to own a product to know whether or not it's worth owning it is absurd. Also, this sort of thing is ALWAYS a personal value proposition. In other words, your standards and values will never match mine.

[Knit]

I certainly agree that everything Is a personal choice. It’s that you just keep bashing mine with no direct experience. Only info from forums. I like my Camper van. It’s been a great choice for me.

Go for your custom build. And let me know how it turns out when you spend tens of thousands more and are faced with a warranty issue hundreds of miles from your custom builder. I’m sure you will only get the perfect van with zero issues. Good luck.

[markopolo]

If you're happy and proud of your purchase then that is all that matters.

I rely on reviews and comments when making many purchases. It would be rare for me to purchase something of any consequence without research. People post about the negatives of a product to help others avoid making the same mistake. You have to sort the reviews and comments though to make sure they apply to your intended use. I concurrently own RV's #5 and #6 for me and have a good idea of what features and parts work well for me and what won't work out well for me at this point in my life.

The complaints and criticisms we see on this forum are directed at the manufacturers IMO and not the end purchaser. I think that we're trying to nudge manufacturers into making improvements.

In general, I'd say there were few complaints about say a 2001 Roadtrek. Some of the Dodge vans back then had some handling complaints.

I started doubting the Roadtrek brand around 2012. Back then, they advertised a 1,600Ah AGM battery bank (that's not a typo), and said that you could charge them up by simply idling the engine for 30 to 40 minutes. I could post the PDF if anyone cares. The 1,600Ah AGM battery bank turned out to be only an 800Ah AGM battery bank at 12 volts. They further went on to say that the auxiliary batteries will run the 110V air conditioner with the compressor on for over 9 hours – and longer. There has been no retraction of those claims that I'm aware of. Some folks believed them and made purchases based on those claims.

There were reports of the fairly expensive CS units having much smaller fresh water tanks than advertised and front roof mounted spoilers blowing off the RV's. Things like advertising the Zion as having an AGM 400 that was actually only a 185Ah battery if I remember correctly. Those items did not improve my perception of the brand. There were more complaints later about the lithium battery units. I pretty much lost interest in the brand then. It was too disappointing to keep reading about the problems.

A lot of us hoped that Hymer would be a fresh start with designs and efficiencies that would exceed our expectations. That didn't end up happening for me. I did look at some Hymer units at a show a couple of years ago and was very much underwhelmed - maybe they have improved since. Others like the Hymer RV's enough to purchase them and if they are happy then that is all that really matters. I'm sure many owners are happy with their units.

Perception of quality is based personal experience. You can have fun and enjoy life in any RV barring any major disruptive problems.

We'll soon see how it all shakes out under the Thor umbrella.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I started doubting the Roadtrek brand around 2012. Back then, they advertised a 1,600Ah AGM battery bank (that's not a typo), and said that you could charge them up by simply idling the engine for 30 to 40 minutes.

Roadtrek has become a bit more realistic, if not always completely accurate on things like the website. And their techs that are reachable by phone for troubleshooting are pretty good about what you can expect.

The only glaring inaccuracy lately that we have not been able to get them to correct is that "22 gallons" that they claim for their gray tank on the Zion/Simplicity lines. It is one of those odd shapes that perhaps will hold that amount if it is sitting on the ground and you can shuffle it around to fill all the corners and angles. Most are getting about 15 gallons... absolute maximum that has been reported is 18 because of air gaps.

For those of us who are not able to convert our own rigs and/or need one under 20 feet... and prefer to avoid the issues of the Sprinter diesels... EHGNA is pretty much our only option.