The future ... and e-van conversion to class B

[Sensfan]

Notwithstanding the fact that we love every minute in our 2012 Roadtrek, we are looking ahead to the future. It appears logical to assume that, within the next few years, good quality descent range e-vans will be available for purchase. In comparison/contrast to present day van conversion, how easy, difficult, expensive, etc may it be to convert an e-van to Class B status?
Any feedback would be appreciated. Note we are not DIY certified lol and would need to pay someone to convert any purchased e-van.

[LostInWoods]

My take is that it's WAYYY too early to know. By the time E-vans have enough range and there is a more ubiquitous charging network available to make a camper EV practical, the systems will likely be considerably different from what we can see today.

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by LostInWoods

My take is that it's WAYYY too early to know. By the time E-vans have enough range and there is a more ubiquitous charging network available to make a camper EV practical, the systems will likely be considerably different from what we can see today.

I agree. The market for e-vans in metro area deliveries, where regenerative braking can capture some of the energy from the vehicle, might be there today, but storing enough energy to propel a 9000lb, 9ft tall vehicle for 300 miles is tough with today's battery technology.

[avanti]

Yes, it will be a few years yet.
When it does happen, a B-van conversion is likely to be a challenge, since electric vehicles are usually just a big battery on wheels, with a cabin on top. Not sure where tanks, plumbing, heaters, etc would go.

I'm sure something will evolve, but I can't quite picture it.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yes, it will be a few years yet.
When it does happen, a B-van conversion is likely to be a challenge, since electric vehicles are usually just a big battery on wheels, with a cabin on top. Not sure where tanks, plumbing, heaters, etc would go.

I'm sure something will evolve, but I can't quite picture it.

I think we may well see an interim solution like renewable electric made hydrogen to power vehicles that need to be able to be refueled quickly and have long range. Further down the road, so to speak, who knows what alternate power source will be available.

[Punkinhead]

With no room underneath for tanks you'd either need to eliminate them or use pumps. An good example is Embassy RV. They use marine style bags inside the van for fresh and grey water with no black tank. Toilets could be composting or Laveo. The shower would take some thought. You'd need to pump the water up into a tank inside the van. Right now Embassy does have a small grey tank underneath for the shower. That problem is solvable though.

I know recharging infrastructure is growing daily, but I wonder how long it will take to reach remote areas. Right now you can drive to Alaska without ever staying in an RV park that has hookups by charging from an alternator while you drive. It might be awhile before charging stations become ubiquitous enough to allow that RV lifestyle out in the sticks. It will get there eventually and I'm looking forward to it. I just changed my truck oil in my driveway when it was 20F out. I'm all for the lower maintenance and better performance of an e-van.

[Bud]

EV Camper:

https://electrek.co/2022/01/05/merce...fe-experience/

[Sensfan]

Thanks for the feedback. My first guess is that the renewable power evolution for Class B RVs will offer several options, and one being similar to that for large commercial vehicles e.g. the fore mentioned FCEV.
If this assumption is correct, then weight and space concerns will be addressed. My second guess, which led to the conversion question, is that it may be less expensive to pay an expert to modify the van into a Class B RV than to buy one “off the shelf”.

[jrobe]

Originally Posted by Bud

EV Camper:

https://electrek.co/2022/01/05/merce...fe-experience/

That electric RV has 2 versions with a range of 147 miles and 226 miles on a charge. That would work fine on a commuter car with a short daily drive to work. On my Class B it would just get me to my first coffee stop of the day.

[Davydd]

Most lithium ion house batteries are installed in the van cabin now. I have a marine macerating toilet which can pump waste anywhere so the black tank can go in the cabin as well and it will be a brown slurry. Of course you could have a composting toilet or cassette toilet. I imagine grey water would be a tank in the galley maybe showers and sinks will be past history or you could raise the bathroom floor as much as 7" and have a tank under the floor. All of this will diminish storage in a Class B and Class B's will be more spartan as many DIY conversions are but it can be done.

All electric high capacity lithium ion house batteries will become the norm. Heating will be a problem since there would be no practical fuel source other than electric or propane tanks on a hitch. It will probably drive most to seek full service shore power campgrounds instead of boon docking.

Having Class Bs 17 years now and visiting all the states and providences of Canada and most all the national parks you can get to by Class Bs. I have seen it all more than once, and being 78, I feel confident this will be my last van for at least 5 more years and are actively planning more trips by cruise ships and boats for one traveling idea. If electric vans become practical within 5 years my creative juices might alter that thinking.

[MsNomer]

There's nothing under our van to limit installation of batteries under there. I see that RAM is gearing up for an electric PM in 2023.

https://moparinsiders.com/caught-202...ommercial-van/

However, Davydd said a lot:

"Heating will be a problem since there would be no practical fuel source other than electric or propane tanks on a hitch. It will probably drive most to seek full service shore power campgrounds instead of boon docking."

We never plug in except in the dead of winter—only then because it's convenient and cheap where we go and electric heat is quieter and more adjustable than the Webasto. There's no way that anytime soon they will put charging stations where we camp.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yes, it will be a few years yet.
When it does happen, a B-van conversion is likely to be a challenge, since electric vehicles are usually just a big battery on wheels, with a cabin on top. Not sure where tanks, plumbing, heaters, etc would go.

I'm sure something will evolve, but I can't quite picture it.

Back to the future, I just scanned the picture from the 1977 trip to Crater Lake, used LPG for the heater and the fridge, we enjoyed this yellow beauty a lot. Folks will enjoy electric vans equipped similarly to my 1977 camper van.

[Davydd]

George,

As I said, Class Bers may have to settle for more spartan accommodations. More now are demanding fully functional motorhome accommodations with dedicated beds that don't have to convert and do double duty and full bathrooms, big kitchens with big refrigerator/freezers. Most are not from that free spirit spartan era. The young vanlifers kind of seek that spirit with usually a young women in a bikini to entice the life. Just follow #vanlife on Instagram.

It is interesting. My first Pleasure-way van had a single 105ah house battery under the passenger seat. That was the norm and maybe a one night stay boon docking was all that was tolerated and then you sought a destination shore power campground. Now boon docking with more battery power is sought sometimes as just a challenge. If EV vans become the norm in the future might we go back to seeking shore power tethering?

As I mentioned, where are you going to store propane and if you can accommodate it inside it is one more take away from cabin space? You probably are not going to have an Onan like generator and Trumba and Rixen are out for the lack of gas or diesel. I don't know a lot about hydrogen technology. Is it fair to envision a highway full of Hindenburgs?

MsNomer,

Promasters are front wheel drive vans so do not have the drive shaft down the middle with lots of empty space on each side. So clearance is not as much. I seriously doubt a Promaster could put 800ah of lithium ion batteries outside as I had in my previous van and there is no Promaster in existence that can get a 40 gallon fresh water tank, and 51 gallons of black and grey tanks as I have in my current 144 wb Sprinter. So it is going to be more spartan with space insides taking up with those things. To get a van range acceptable on batteries it probably would be a flat plate throughout the van floor and nothing underneath. One idea is the house batteries could feed off that plate of batteries or be integrated with that plate.

I can also envision EV vans lower to the ground as the major users like Amazon, FedEx, etc. dictating that desire for delivery and worker safety and efficiency.

[Boxster1971]

Mercedes-Benz Vans: Electrifying plans for the motorhome industry

https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaS...l?oid=52243666

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

George,

As I said, Class Bers may have to settle for more spartan accommodations. More now are demanding fully functional motorhome accommodations with dedicated beds that don't have to convert and do double duty and full bathrooms, big kitchens with big refrigerator/freezers. Most are not from that free spirit spartan era. The young vanlifers kind of seek that spirit with usually a young women in a bikini to entice the life. Just follow #vanlife on Instagram.

It is interesting. My first Pleasure-way van had a single 105ah house battery under the passenger seat. That was the norm and maybe a one night stay boon docking was all that was tolerated and then you sought a destination shore power campground. Now boon docking with more battery power is sought sometimes as just a challenge. If EV vans become the norm in the future might we go back to seeking shore power tethering?

As I mentioned, where are you going to store propane and if you can accommodate it inside it is one more take away from cabin space? You probably are not going to have an Onan like generator and Trumba and Rixen are out for the lack of gas or diesel. I don't know a lot about hydrogen technology. Is it fair to envision a highway full of Hindenburgs?

..........

A small 5lbs LPG bottle can run small Propex (5oz/hr.) at 30-50% duty cycle for 2-3 days. Kerosene could also be used for heating with small Airtronics like furnace. Neither of our Westfalias could provide hot water, without shower it was not necessary.

I very much doubt we will ever see hydrogen/fuel cell powered vehicles. Much easier and efficient to distribute electrons than hydrogen.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I very much doubt we will ever see hydrogen/fuel cell powered vehicles. Much easier and efficient to distribute electrons than hydrogen.

I was not necessarily referring to hydrogen fuel cell. It could be any kind of hydrogen fueled electrical, mechanical or whatever else power generating source they may come up with. Moving electrons isn't really the issue, though, as I would think it is storing enough of them to move heavy vehicles long distances. Energy dense fuels have big advantage there. Of course a garbage powered flux capacitor would be great

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

I was not necessarily referring to hydrogen fuel cell. It could be any kind of hydrogen fueled electrical, mechanical or whatever else power generating source they may come up with. Moving electrons isn't really the issue, though, as I would think it is storing enough of them to move heavy vehicles long distances. Energy dense fuels have big advantage there. Of course a garbage powered flux capacitor would be great

Agree that high energy density fuel is a good choice for an RV byt handling hydrogen is difficult to manage. Kerosene or LPG, about 1/2 f H2 energy density but are more manageble. Li battery is still low on the chart. https://transportgeography.org/conte...nergy-content/

In our CO2 footprint reduction world reduction of energy consumption will hit hard the B world.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Agree that high energy density fuel is a good choice for an RV byt handling hydrogen is difficult to manage. Kerosene or LPG, about 1/2 f H2 energy density but are more manageble. Li battery is still low on the chart. https://transportgeography.org/conte...nergy-content/

In our CO2 footprint reduction world reduction of energy consumption will hit hard the B world.

Couldn't agree more, about hydrogen being difficult to handle, but I am sure with proper procedures it wouldn't be bad. The used to say liquefied natural gas was to hazardous to transport but now we have tankers full of it.


The big deal is to find a renewable fuel that is energy dense like petroleum products. Hydrogen is probably the best best at this point, but maybe some peroxide type stuff could work. Not my expertise at all. If they can't find something, or improved way to store electricity we may all be camping on tandem bikes with little generators to charge as we pedal.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Mercedes-Benz Vans: Electrifying plans for the motorhome industry

https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaS...l?oid=52243666

A related story:

https://www.aboutcampbtob.eu/mercede...home-industry/

[RossWilliams]

I think the self-driving and full electrification roll outs are going to happen hand-in-hand. So the question may be what does a driverless electric RV look like. I am not sure that you won't simply have travel trailers pulled by a driverless tow vehicle.