Tesla to announce new revolutionary product Apr 30

[mlts22]

Originally Posted by rectalogic

Truma discontinued the VeGA:

"Therefore, Truma has decided to stop the production of the VeGA and all activities within the fuel cell technology."
"Truma does not take any orders for the fuel cell system VeGA and does not deliver products any more"
http://www.truma.com/int/en/energy-syst ... n-vega.php

Thanks for the info. This is a loss, and I wondered why it was hard to find any info on this fuel cell.

Of course, there is the EFOY fuel cell. 40 watts for $3499, 75 watts for $4999, and 105 watts for $6999. Not cheap by any means, with replacing 10 liter bottles of methanol costing $67 and 28 liter costing $193... but if the cost goes down, this would be useful as a supplemental resource.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

Even 2 amps will chew up 50AH per day, which is nearly 25% of most 2 battery systems, so it does count up.

True. But, like Davydd, in a decade of B-vanning, I don't think there has EVER been a 24 hour period in which we have not driven someplace. Between that and solar, that level of load is rarely in our consciousness.

[Davydd]

I should mention we can turn off the inverter any time. It is not necessarily full time but with the battery power the hit is minor. The only things that run on 120vac are the microwave, Keurig, induction cooktop, TV, 120v outlets and the articulating bed. Everything else is 12v including the refrigerator. I could be frugal and keep the inverter off except in the evening to watch TV (rare on the road) and to manipulate the beds. Being lazy I like it on so I don't have to reset the microwave clock every time. If I felt I was going to boondock in the Quartzsite desert more than 3 days without moving. I doubt even that would ever happen.

[booster]

Avanti said

I don't think there has EVER been a 24 hour period in which we have not driven someplace

Definitely a different pattern than us. We spent 3 days without power in wind cave park without moving, and then went to Custer, where we had power, and in 14 days, we drove the van twice.

[wincrasher]

Well, while some are sipping their Kool-Aid, at the rally next weekend, I'll probably not plug my van in either. 3 to 4 days is not a problem and I can still enjoy my fine coffee and a few slices of toast each morning. My traveling life is pretty much all 12v without the need for inverters - TV, lights, entertainment system, phone charger, camera charger and most importantly, laptop & wifi - all 12v natively. Mostly for cooling I use the 12v Fantastik Fan.

I have no use for microwaves or electric cooking, nor hair dryers or Keurig machines. I don't expect to need any heating for the next 6 months at a minimum. If I need hot water for anything, there is a kettle on the stovetop. The large refrigerator works perfectly in LP mode. For cooking and the fridge, my onboard LP tank is good for months of use.

I don't see I'm giving up anything, or compensating for anything. To the contrary. I'm enjoying a brand new, fully paid for van (considered luxurious by many, horrifyingly basic by some) plus ~$130k that I didn't spend on self-indulgent luxury and complexity, that is still earning in my brokerage account. My van sits in my shop, happily unattended without the need to monitor or control it from my iPhone until the next time I care to use it. I certainly don't have to worry about it self-imoliating if something malfunctions while I'm out of town because when it's turned off, it's truly off and isolated. I don't care how hot or cold it is and if that is destroying an obscenely expensive battery bank.

I can't imagine anywhere I'd care to go, that it couldn't take me there, and keep me safe and comfortable and for so very little money.

If at the rally their bath house is gross, or it's too hot without the air conditioning, then I'll plug in. So what? I'm sure I'll be in good company if that is the case.

[Davydd]

Wincrasher you are sipping your own brand of Kool-Aid. I've had 40 years of tent camping and 10 years of Class B glamping with your capabilities only I could produce hot water from a faucet without plugging in or firing up a generator. Being this is a topic about battery power, I am experiencing the capabilities and know the differences. I do know that if you added a companion with a hair dryer, as I have, in your travels you would be tethered to a cord in a campground most nights with that Travato dumping every other day. I also know for a fact you could not follow my tracks and keep up with my pace on an extended trip. Not impossible, but I can honestly say from experience a Travato would be one of the last Class Bs I would consider on an extended trip to Alaska. You get what you can or are willing to pay for but don't kid yourself. Everyone adapts to what they have and rationalizes it. Class A and C people think all of us Class B people are nuts and the numbers support that.

[eurovanman]

I could buy two Travato's for what Davyyd spent on his ARV. I can fulltime in my VW Eurovan, so to each their own.

[Davydd]

Of course you can but that doesn't change the fact you can't do what I can. This is the topic about battery technology spurred by Tesla. I doubt Tesla will be in the RV market anytime soon and their present configurations most likely will never be adaptable in a Class B but a Class A might take up that challenge. Tesla will accelerate the lithium ion idea. Once it takes hold, in a few years the conventional wisdom will be why did we even bother to put up with lead-acid batteries? It's progress and it will be for the better. All I am hearing is rationalization, acceptance for one's lot and adapting with what is available for two main reasons--slow acceptance by a dealer dominated market and the CHEAP card. Wasn't it dealers that killed Roadtrek's initially announced ambitions and Gerry's desires for an ETrek like Zion? So, if what you have is so great why is everyone tinkering with adding batteries and solar the converters won't offer?

[wincrasher]

Everyone tinkers around the edges. But they keep the cost/value proposition in mind. 99% of us are on a budget, and most want fair value for our money. That's why we all minimally mod our vans in some way - hooks, shelves, an extra battery, etc. Spending a few bucks on stuff like this is not comparable to spending big bucks on a totally custom RV. There will never be many takers for that. Granted, a few, but not many.

You don't see the major manufacturers way out on the technology curve because of the risk. Risk in warranty claims and risks with customer satisfaction. Plus the price differential for advanced technology. Few want to bare a huge R&D cost.

When things are proven and can be added for minimal cost, then you'll see them adopt. Tesla may lead the way on this with batteries - a self contained black-box system with a long warranty and a reasonable cost - that may get people on board with these packs.

It would be one thing to offer an RV buyer a "super" battery back for another $3500. It's another to tell them to add this complexity of a bunch of parts, systems to learn, and oh, by the way an extra $30,000 and only within the standard RV warranty.

Case in point is the Roadtrek under-hood generator. The cost isn't excessive and the technology is well tested. It's not a huge decision to decide between a traditional generator or the underhood. But there is still some sweating the decision - look what Gerry went thru deciding. It was only a $3000 decision, but it wasn't an easy one. I imagine once they've pumped out a few thousand of these things, you'll see Winnebago, Pleasureway and Airstream start to offer them too.

But the gripe here is not that you have bragging rights to the most capable van on the forum. The gripe is your condescending attitude towards everyone who hasn't shelled out the big bucks for what you have. Almost no-one needs that kind of capability, nor do they use their vans the same way you do. So simple systems serve very well and they are happy with them. Personally, I could buy an ARV if I thought the value proposition was there. I just don't see it. I could have even waited a bit and bought a different van - the 2016 Travato with the Truma system, or maybe the Zion, or even an ERA, if I wanted to exceed my budget for a modest bit more capability. What I have is fine for now with just the few tweaks I've done.

[Davydd]

You just made my point. Someone has to do it or you will be waiting forever for improvements. If you want to be a Luddite and criticize what I did so be it. It wasn't a modest bit more capability. I have experienced both. You haven't. Nor do I care or have time to wait for converters to catch up. I am willingly being somewhat of a beta tester for this as I have always been an early adopter though I admit I haven't bit on an Apple Watch (yet?), and all my friends are shocked. I trashed all my watches and ties the day I retired.

[booster]

I don't think folks are criticizing Davydd's RV, it is a very nice rig. But, by the same logic, why does someone else choosing lower cost and simplicity make them a Luddite? I suppose tent campers are Neanderthals?

Everyone has basically 3 things going on IMO---needs, wants, and show (pomp if you prefer)

Needs are what you have to have-a vehicle that moves and is safe--frig if you have meds--etc

Wants cover most of the rest for most of us, and everyone's wants are different-- I want a B that is under 22' long and under 10' tall, for instance--not right or wrong, but many times what folks want are criticized as being wrong by others.

Wants can quickly get out of hand and turn into show--I will let everyone decide for themselves what goes in that category, and why

Most of us are proud of what we have, or have built, but when the quest for adoration exceeds the personal satisfaction, it is not the same thing and gets ugly.

[stanw909]

Calling Windcrasher a ludite is just absurd.

[markopolo]

I closed the topic. The new mods might reopen it if they want to. We're drifting away from the Tesla discussion.