Tampa RV Show - Page 2

Straylight · 01-14-2016, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jostalli

It was comical at first but now it is cringe worthy. The thing is if their prices were lower than others we would be praising them for putting out so many nice "budget" models.

Is there a current "budget" Class B manufacturer?

mlts22 · 01-14-2016, 05:53 PM

My view with any new product from a RV maker: Wait a model year, and don't buy a new offering at "version 1.0". It will either get pulled quickly, like the SS Ideal, or it may continue on and be something that might be worth buying. The Travato is a good example of this, as it was considerably improved in the two subsequent years.

wincrasher · 01-14-2016, 06:04 PM

I think these models are a play to have the "cheapest" Class B. Of course, after adding all the options you'd want, they don't end up being that way.

Will be interesting to see if WGO responds to these with a decontented Travato and how successful a lower priced, but still serviceable unit would be.

booster · 01-14-2016, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlts22

My view with any new product from a RV maker: Wait a model year, and don't buy a new offering at "version 1.0". It will either get pulled quickly, like the SS Ideal, or it may continue on and be something that might be worth buying. The Travato is a good example of this, as it was considerably improved in the two subsequent years.

I would totally agree, and in this case go even a bit further. Roadtrek may be slipping back into the "throwing stuff at the wall" to see what sticks in relation to new models. They did this a few years ago and it could be a repeat now. Roatrek has quite a few orphan models out there.

That floor plan looks like the old aisle shower, toilet pointing out, kitchen on the driver side, setup they used for years, but with a huge shower monstrosity instead of an armoire or seat.

IMO, if you are going to have a spiffy fold up shower stall, make it so it is around the aisle, so you don't tie up a quarter of your very precious interior space.

mlts22 · 01-14-2016, 09:24 PM

Because of the low ground clearance, an aisle shower like what is in the Chevy Express vans isn't really possible. European Ducatos come with RWD or 4WD, so this isn't an issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if RT is doing the scattergun approach, like they did in 2008. It saved the company back then, and with the economic clouds looming on the horizon, it might be they are trying to find something that can sell, even if the economy does a nose dive. The profits off of $200,000 Sprinters are nice, but if people are worried about making their basic income needs due to their retirement portfolios being severely devalued, it might be that well made low-end models (not stripped-down cheapies that are missing things like showers) just might pull RT and other "B" makers through a future recession.

booster · 01-14-2016, 10:04 PM

How would an aisle shower be any different that any other shower drain?

mumkin · 01-14-2016, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davydd

Pooping in the kitchen will go over well.

Nothing new about that with Roadtrek... most of their Chevy based units have the bathroom across from the galley. With the 170, the only sink is the kitchen sink.

Not a big deal...

GeorgeB · 01-14-2016, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlts22

Because of the low ground clearance, an aisle shower like what is in the Chevy Express vans isn't really possible. European Ducatos come with RWD or 4WD, so this isn't an issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if RT is doing the scattergun approach, like they did in 2008. It saved the company back then, and with the economic clouds looming on the horizon, it might be they are trying to find something that can sell, even if the economy does a nose dive. ...

I agree mlts22, RT seems desperate multiplying models to try getting back their market share with lower priced RVs. I do appreciate that they are at least trying to offer shorter, simpler models to balance the actual upscale B market. WGO has the same approach with the Travato.

They just need to hire better designers. That's their major problem. They do have engineers but no real industrial designers with experience. I can confirm that, having visited their plant when we almost bought one RT. Maybe Hymer will help, but I don't think it will happen, jugging by their very cautious approach with the new agreement.

Concerning the aisle shower, I don't see why it is a problem. Ducatos in Europe are 99% FWD. The 4x4 is an aftermarket option by Dangel and very few Ducatos have it.

There's plenty of clearance and no driveshaft in the way on the FWD ProMaster/Ducato chassis. Our van has two joined 12 Gal Grey water tanks, right in the middle of the vehicle as you can see in the attached photo. The Black is a 12 Gal on the driver side (Safari condo standardizes the use of 12 gal. tanks for all their models and doubles the Grey when the vehicle has enough space. It works very well)

.

BobB · 01-15-2016, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mumkin

Nothing new about that with Roadtrek... most of their Chevy based units have the bathroom across from the galley. With the 170, the only sink is the kitchen sink.

Not a big deal...

This bathroom/toilet is NOT across from the galley. Take another look - sitting on the toilet, your feet are in the aisle, i.e. the galley. The door does not close if you are using the toilet. So instead of using part of the aisle for the shower, the toilet uses it. Go figure.

booster · 01-15-2016, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobB

This bathroom/toilet is NOT across from the galley. Take another look - sitting on the toilet, your feet are in the aisle, i.e. the galley. The door does not close if you are using the toilet. So instead of using part of the aisle for the shower, the toilet uses it. Go figure.

As Mumkin said, that is the standard setup that Roadtrek and some others used for years with the toilet across from the galley, toilet facing the aisle. it is a tremendous space saver in small RVs. I guess if you insist that the bathroom be a separate room, you could stretch to say you are in the kitchen, but I wouldn't say that at all. There are an awful lot of B's out there with that configuration.

mumkin · 01-15-2016, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobB

This bathroom/toilet is NOT across from the galley. Take another look - sitting on the toilet, your feet are in the aisle, i.e. the galley. The door does not close if you are using the toilet. So instead of using part of the aisle for the shower, the toilet uses it. Go figure.

Actually I just took another look... and the toilet in the new Link appears to be right across from the galley... EXACTLY like it is in my 170. Of course your feet are in the aisle. That is how RT has had it for many years.

As I said... not a major problem

Davydd · 01-15-2016, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mumkin

Actually I just took another look... and the toilet in the new Link appears to be right across from the galley... EXACTLY like it is in my 170. Of course your feet are in the aisle. That is how RT has had it for many years.

As I said... not a major problem

Maybe if you are the only person using your B, but then I never pooped in my tent when I was a tent camper either.

WJones · 01-15-2016, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

That floor plan looks like the old aisle shower, toilet pointing out, kitchen on the driver side, setup they used for years, but with a huge shower monstrosity instead of an armoire or seat.

Totally agree. I have a 200 Popular and if I removed the driver side armoire and replaced it with a shower, I would end up with the same floor plan. Of course I would never imagine doing that. The payback is way too small for what I would be losing. That's a huge area with no under and over counter cabinets.
As for the location of the toiler with respect to the galley, at least in our RT we bring out the shower curtain when using the toilet. It sort of defines the space a bit better. However, if you decide that you don't want an enclosed toilet, there aren't that many ways of doing it ... this is a B after all.

Davydd · 01-15-2016, 02:59 PM

Put the lid on the pot dear. I'm sitting on the pot here.

BobB · 01-15-2016, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mumkin

Actually I just took another look... and the toilet in the new Link appears to be right across from the galley... EXACTLY like it is in my 170. Of course your feet are in the aisle. That is how RT has had it for many years.

As I said... not a major problem

Now I remember why I disliked those floor plans and got excited when Sprinters and Promasters came to market.

BobB · 01-15-2016, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WJones

However, if you decide that you don't want an enclosed toilet, there aren't that many ways of doing it ... this is a B after all.

I don't know the interior dimensions of the RT 170/190, but isn't the whole point of going to the Sprinter or Promaster as B base vehicle to have the room, widthwise, so you can do the enclosed toilet/shower (or at least enclosed toilet) ?

WJones · 01-16-2016, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobB

I don't know the interior dimensions of the RT 170/190, but isn't the whole point of going to the Sprinter or Promaster as B base vehicle to have the room, widthwise, so you can do the enclosed toilet/shower (or at least enclosed toilet) ?

According to the specs put forward by RT, The Sprinter is only 1" wider than the Chevy used for the 190, and the Roadmaster used for the Zion is only 4" wider than the Chevy.
Irrespective of that, an enclosed toilet doesn't only require width, it also takes up way more space lengthwise. I'm sure that in my RT200, if I really wanted a lot of work, I could turn the toilet 90 degrees towards the front, remove the full length cabinet on the passenger side and have an enclosed toilet. I would like an enclosed toilet, but I'm not ready to sacrifice storage to get it. That was my point as to choices you have to make. Even with a Sprinter or a Promaster, you don't get a free lunch.

wincrasher · 01-16-2016, 02:35 AM

Only 4" wider? LOL. That's an enormous amount and makes a big difference. Especially at head height as the walls don't taper nearly as much as on the Chevy or the Sprinter.

In a van, a few inches make a real difference in the perception of space.

WJones · 01-16-2016, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Only 4" wider? LOL. That's an enormous amount and makes a big difference. Especially at head height as the walls don't taper nearly as much as on the Chevy or the Sprinter.

In a van, a few inches make a real difference in the perception of space.

I thought we were just exchanging different points of view? Glad my comment made you laugh!

mumkin · 01-16-2016, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davydd

Maybe if you are the only person using your B, but then I never pooped in my tent when I was a tent camper either.

Interesting to learn that you have never pooped in your RV... (which is the only way I can interpret your odd "tent" comment)

But anyway, the 170 is tiny and you have to make tradeoffs. One of them is giving up the enclosed bathroom. The system bothers neither the dog nor me... and we are the only ones traveling in it.

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