Super Steer

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 · 05-06-2018, 05:36 AM

I'm getting an upgraded suspension in the next 10 days.. these guys from Super Steer in Oregon recommended that install Koni FSD shocks for the stability up and down motion, upgraded and much heavier duty sway bar for side to side motion and a track bar for the "dog wagging" due to high winds from passing trucks and the downdraft when trucks pass and get in front of me.... like a whirlwind sucking us into their wake.....

My extremely trustworthy local RV repair shop said that I really needed shocks..and they directed me to these folks who apparently have been doing research on this stuff and making suggestions for people since 1961....

All of this is expensive, but, so is having an accident due to lost control.... I noticed that going across the USA last fall... I got behind a lot of big rigs and had many encounters with extremely high winds....

The folks at Super Steer wisely pointed out that my vehicle was originally built as an ordinary cargo van from Mercedes..and the conversion changed the dynamics of the van with kitchen equipment, holding tanks, plumbing, refrigerator, toilet and generator.. which sits behind the rear axle making the vehicle have extra weight at the tail end...

Have any of you considered making upgrades like this or are you sticking with the original equipment? My van only has 40,500 miles.. but, even on the last trip..it does feel a little spongy....and traveling over any uneven surfaces makes the cabinets in the rear shake like an earthquake. Not to mention any passengers who sits in the rear bench seat...they bob up and down....

Let me know ....

Davydd · 05-09-2018, 01:18 AM

The Dutch VB Air Suspension is what I had for 3-1/2 years. It takes care of all things mentioned I think superbly as I had experience in Sprinter RVs with and without.

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 · 05-09-2018, 04:14 AM

Dave, I'm absolutely sure that the VB Air Suspension is great..no question... but, I'm not going to put an air suspension on my 2012 Roadtrek RS Adventurous... just a little bit overboard for me...

The folks at Super Steer didn't even mention this and I'm not sure I would like the price...I think an air suspension on a big Class A is probably necessary... Super Steer told me that I should absolutely notice a difference and it would handle a lot better than it does now with the issues I'm experiencing....

You know that when Mercedes Benz builds a cargo Sprinter van even as large as mine is, 3500 with the dual wheels, they don't have any idea on how it's going to be used... The vehicle is shipped from Germany to Canada where Roadtrek custom builds the vehicle on the inside and adds all the equipment... Constant weight ....and the fact that it's top heavy with a generator behind the rear axle changes the dynamic of the vehicle...

I'm sure that Mercedes thought that the cargo van would be used on occasion for loads and unloaded or some of these vehicles get turned into mini shuttle buses..40,000 miles doesn't seem a lot for shocks.. I'll admit.. however, the original shocks may not be the same standard as the Koni FSD.... further, my understanding of these particular shocks is that they compress easier than they expand...so, as they go down they come up more slowly... other shocks perform differently...these shocks are insanely expensive.. about $325 each...

The van has McPherson strut suspension on the front and rear leaf springs...the front is very stable and causes the tail end of vehicle to apparently wag a little for steering correction...SO, that's what the tracking bar is designed to address.....The replacement of the original sway bar almost doubles the size from 1 inch to 1 3/8 inch should make a significant impact on the side to side motion .... I just hope they are correct.....

By the way, the shocks are lifetime guaranteed ... not the labor of course...but, at least the shocks are... nice to know.

InterBlog · 05-12-2018, 01:09 PM

We put the Koni rear shocks and larger sway bar at around 30,000 miles. It made a huge improvement.

Right now we're waiting for the release of a certain model of Koni strut for the front (my husband placed the order, so I am not sure which one it is). We have an older Sprinter (T1N) and apparently they only produce that model of strut (for T1Ns and whatever other vehicles it fits) when the supply runs out.

I wouldn't hesitate to spend money on these kinds of stability-related upgrades. I also don't let the tires get as worn as I do on my daily driver.

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 · 05-12-2018, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InterBlog

We put the Koni rear shocks and larger sway bar at around 30,000 miles. It made a huge improvement.

Right now we're waiting for the release of a certain model of Koni strut for the front (my husband placed the order, so I am not sure which one it is). We have an older Sprinter (T1N) and apparently they only produce that model of strut (for T1Ns and whatever other vehicles it fits) when the supply runs out.

I wouldn't hesitate to spend money on these kinds of stability-related upgrades. I also don't let the tires get as worn as I do on my daily driver.

THANKS, I hope my Sprinter has a much of an improvement as yours did....

ponti33602 · 05-14-2018, 12:01 PM

This just makes sense that suspension needs to be customized to the task at hand. We are waiting to see the results for sure.

Guess one thing that seems surprising is you said your RV repair guy..........I would have expected a Freight-liner guy would need to do such an upgrade?

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 · 05-14-2018, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponti33602

This just makes sense that suspension needs to be customized to the task at hand. We are waiting to see the results for sure.

Guess one thing that seems surprising is you said your RV repair guy..........I would have expected a Freight-liner guy would need to do such an upgrade?

Hi Bob,

I'm bringing my van into the shop this morning... they want it for two or three days... they don't want to be rushed...that's OK with me... I have two other cars..I'd rather they take their time and get it right....

My RV shop has been in business for 37 years.... family owned...

They have a 4.6 rating on YELP.....

https://www.superpages.com/bp/agoura...0018692699.htm

I expect to have the van back by Wednesday or Thursday....

---Mark

4Joey · 05-17-2018, 04:33 AM

I added 'helper springs' (from Sprinter Store in OR) and Koni FSR to the rear of our 2016 PW Ascent. That made a huge difference in the handling and eliminated the sway and bounce. On the 144 chassis there is only one leaf spring and it was nearly flat with all the additions. Ponti is correct that it only makes sense to upgrade the suspension for the increased load.

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 · 05-17-2018, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Joey

I added 'helper springs' (from Sprinter Store in OR) and Koni FSR to the rear of our 2016 PW Ascent. That made a huge difference in the handling and eliminated the sway and bounce. On the 144 chassis there is only one leaf spring and it was nearly flat with all the additions. Ponti is correct that it only makes sense to upgrade the suspension for the increased load.

Interesting.. that you said it's only necessary to upgrade the suspension for the increased load... my Sprinter has the dual wheels has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,030 and a gross combined weight rating of 15, 250 pounds....

The gross vehicle weight rating of the Pleasure Way Ascent is around 8,500 pounds....

I can assure you that I am NOT doing a suspension upgrade for the increased load..the standard OEM equipment was installed from Mercedes Benz for these weight statistics..

I'm doing it for the handling and stability... I'm not familiar with KONI FSR... shocks...

I'm having KONI FSD shocks installed...stands for Frequency Selective Dampening....
I'm also getting a larger sway bar to replace the original sway bar by the factory...and a track bar....

My Sprinter is 23 feet long and has a 170 inch wheelbase... completely different vehicle...

Davydd · 05-17-2018, 03:17 PM

You might be disappointed in the subsequent improvements but I am sure the improvements will be all in your head anyway. I said VB Air Suspension is probably the only significant improvement in a long wheel base Sprinter. Advanced RV and Airstream have done extensive research to offer this total rear end replacement at an extensive cost. Unfortunately I know of on Roadtrek Adventurous that got VB Air Suspension in Minnesota but had to have extensive reworking of Roadtrek underfloor improvements that added to the cost.

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 · 05-17-2018, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davydd

You might be disappointed in the subsequent improvements but I am sure the improvements will be all in your head anyway. I said VB Air Suspension is probably the only significant improvement in a long wheel base Sprinter. Advanced RV and Airstream have done extensive research to offer this total rear end replacement at an extensive cost. Unfortunately I know of on Roadtrek Adventurous that got VB Air Suspension in Minnesota but had to have extensive reworking of Roadtrek underfloor improvements that added to the cost.

We'll see....in the meantime.. WHY don't you read this below...

https://www.eurocampers.com/mobile/K...00_p_1002.html

By the way... you're pretty arrogant to tell me that it's "all in my head"

As a point of information...the people at Super Steer in Grants Pass have been in business since 1961 and recommended this solution.. and my RV shop agreed 100 percent and they've been in business since 1981....

So, you can save your sanctimonious attitude on the VB air suspension from Advanced for someone else! I'm sure that you paid dearly for this system and you will never see a return on investment for such a large cash outlay.....

Davydd · 05-17-2018, 11:12 PM

I know it works. You don’t. You come on here pontificating to those who have been Class B RVing for over a decade claiming your RV mechanic knows all. Your shocks are not going to take out the bounce on a 170 WB Sprinter. So why tell us who have experience with your poppycock?

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 · 05-18-2018, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davydd

I know it works. You don’t. You come on here pontificating to those who have been Class B RVing for over a decade claiming your RV mechanic knows all. Your shocks are not going to take out the bounce on a 170 WB Sprinter. So why tell us who have experience with your poppycock?

See this.. there's clearly other opinions on this subject... even though this link discussion is trailers, it can extrapolated to other loads , they mention 10,000 to 30,000 pound weights.

https://schneider.com/knowledge-hub/...ide-suspension

I think you have an opinion about air suspension being the best.. I get it.

And, as I have stated numerous times on this subject.. I was not going to spend $7,500 or more on air suspension... just over the top.

Maybe it is better, for you, I don't know....the Koni FSD, sway and track bar made a significant difference with my vehicle and I'm very pleased with the results for the amount of money I spent..

Beyond that... enjoy your rig... whatever you paid for this with Advanced RV.. I'm sure you had your reasons...

Are you telling me that there's absolutely NO vibration of any kind on your rig?

Air suspension is extremely complex and can fail.... and as you previously stated it's even more difficult ( read prohibitively expensive to install on a Roadtrek)

Davydd · 05-18-2018, 01:56 PM

Not just opinion. I had a 2011 Sprinter and I test drove mine on the same arduous route over potholes and railroad tracks as a VB Air Suspension equipped Sprinter both as a driver and as a passenger on the back sofa (four trips) to establish factual results before I invested. As I said your results after the fact will be all in your head to justify the expense. No shocks are going to take out that Sprinter bounce satisfactorily.

You’ve come on to this board with little experience pontificating to many very experienced and very knowledgeable members. My former 2011 Great West Van well over a year ago sold for less than your Roadtrek purchase. It was a “cream puff” in many more ways in build quality, technology and design. That’s why I am skeptical of most all your blustery comments. You might want to read and learn more on this board.

Mat Mobile · 05-18-2018, 04:22 PM

More discussion on shocks and springs in this recent thread including this comment:

Quote:

1.KONI. Called PW and they recommended $800 Koni shocks. Installed _NO DIFFERENCE.

DavidD is correct in saying that the issue is with the springs.

Springs allow up and down movement of the suspension based on the weight of the vehicle. Shocks prevent "continuous cycling" of the spring. The combination of these 2 components should be balanced to the weight of the vehicle. Now, will you need air, not necessarily. Maybe another leaf pack would work at a lesser cost.

At this point you are commited to Koni (and your shocks are probably due to be changed anyway based on the age of your vehicle) so once you have them installed, let us know if it fixes your issue.

BTW, what is a trac bar? Do you mean sway bar?

booster · 05-18-2018, 05:40 PM

Track bar is a bar that runs for the frame to axle housing crosswise in the van with a pivot on each end. They work to keep the axle from moving sideways during heavy cornering. Just about any vehicle with trailing arms to the rear axle and coil springs uses a track bar, but they are not very common in leaf spring setups because the springs normally can prevent the movement well enough.

Sway bars are much more well known and a more common, and usually more effective, add on, but are for sway and to modify over and under steer conditions.

Mat Mobile · 05-18-2018, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

Track bar is a bar that runs for the frame to axle housing crosswise in the van with a pivot on each end. They work to keep the axle from moving sideways during heavy cornering. Just about any vehicle with trailing arms to the rear axle and coil springs uses a track bar, but they are not very common in leaf spring setups because the springs normally can prevent the movement well enough.

Sway bars are much more well known and a more common, and usually more effective, add on, but are for sway and to modify over and under steer conditions.

Thanks! That's what I understood except, like you mention, I've never seen that on a leaf-sprung suspension.

Boxster1971 · 05-18-2018, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Mobile

Thanks! That's what I understood except, like you mention, I've never seen that on a leaf-sprung suspension.

Agreed - I'd like to see a photo of a track bar installation on the rear axle of a 3500 Sprinter. Id like to understand what problem the track bar is going to solve.

oilman · 05-18-2018, 10:06 PM

I believe this is a picture or the trac bar on a sprinter.

https://supersteerparts.com/blog/ss7...inter-chassis/

booster · 05-18-2018, 11:04 PM

Interesting pic, and also big, short arm sway bar if pic isn't fisheye. Track bar and sway bar go to what look to be an existing mounting bracket set on the "frame" of the unibody.

As mentioned, track bars are fairly rare on leaf spring setups, and this is the first I have heard of on a class b van, at least that I remember. I don't think anyone has ever questioned about axle wandering back and forth so it is kind of a surprise.

They say it is to to reduce sway, which I don't understand. I was always under the impression the track bars stop axle wander which can cause rear steer issues (squirrely feeling) when it dogtracks from the axle moving over. I suppose if the wind caused the van to move it might also cause it, but I have never heard of it as a solution to wind sway before. Big sway bars, stiffer springs, higher damping rate shocks would be more the normal stuff you would hear about.

By the time you buy the track bar, big sway bar, Koni shocks, and maybe some booster springs, you are starting to get into some high costs, although still under the likely much better results air ride conversions.

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