Shutting off propane appliances while filling gas or propane tank

[Sensfan]

Does everyone shut off their propane appliances / pilot lights, etc while refuelling?

[mkguitar]

I sure do

Seen enough rv's on fire at gas stations

There are no "pilot lights" on my rv.

The water heater & fridge have electronic igniters.

[JohnnyFry]

Shutting off is not optional, it is essential! If you want a quick convincer go to YouTube and enter RV fires...I think that you will be quickly convinced. Personally, I have a switch just above the driver's seat from which I can shut the fridge off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUyuEYiRRRE

[Sensfan]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

I sure do

Seen enough rv's on fire at gas stations
There are no "pilot lights" on my rv.
The water heater & fridge have electronic igniters.

[QUOTE=JohnnyFry;141748]Shutting off is not optional, it is essential! If you want a quick convincer go to YouTube and enter RV fires...I think that you will be quickly convinced. Personally, I have a switch just above the driver's seat from which I can shut the fridge off.

Thanks Guys. My RT Ranger equipment is 2 way AC/DC only. However, I am coaching family members who will be first time RVrs next week when they rent a SS Ideal. I told them they need to shut off all propane activity, e.g. refrigerator and hot water heater when refuelling. The online SS Ideal owners manual does not indicate whether or not this vehicle has pilot lights. Does anyone have knowledge of this?

[booster]

Anything diesel or gasoline fired also needs to be completely off. Those are becoming more common and often not mentioned if fires at gas stations as they probably haven't been around to cause many, yet.

[mkguitar]

Originally Posted by Sensfan

I am coaching family members

give them gloves and teach them how to dump...


I see people in rentals struggling on occassion - and some with out gloves!


Ranger in Oregon gave me a free night after he saw me helping a poor Dad and son out

[Lennie]

I shut off the propane before I get to the gas station even if I have to pull over a block or two before. I saw the video posted above a few years ago, I make everyone get out of the RV when the propane tank is being filled, that includes our dogs.

[Ron J. Moore]

If I were to use it, I would stop and shut it off well before fueling, giving time for any fumes to dissipated. Every so often we here of an RV going up at a fueling station.

[Sensfan]

Originally Posted by Ron J. Moore

If I were to use it, I would stop and shut it off well before fueling, giving time for any fumes to dissipated. Every so often we here of an RV going up at a fueling station.

Originally Posted by Lennie

I shut off the propane before I get to the gas station even if I have to pull over a block or two before. I saw the video posted above a few years ago, I make everyone get out of the RV when the propane tank is being filled, that includes our dogs.

So do you shut off the propane by closing the onboard propane tank, or do you turn off the refrigerator and hot water tank individually?

[Lennie]

I turn the refrigerator off, then turn the propane off. I don't drive with the water heater on, I turn it off after using it. If I'm going to drive a few hours the refrigerator is on DC, I only use propane when I know I'm going to do lots of short drives with short hikes or sightseeing in between. DC drains my battery too fast if I'm parked, I don't have solar on the roof and I do a fair amount of dry camping.

[@Michael]

NFPA (National Fire Protection Association®) has some interesting statistics on gas station fires:

https://www.nfpa.org//-/media/Files/...cestations.pdf

[SeabeckStan]

I agree absolutely with all who said to turn off the propane before fueling. The one thing I would add is that propane operates at a very low pressure and there is active propane in the pipes (still under pressure) when you turn it off at the source. That means if you don't turn it off at the appliance pilots lights (if you have them) will still be running and the appliance may successfully ignite while you are pumping gasoline!

I know some will say "we've been doing this for years and never had a problem", but I'd say that those people with the RV fires in Youtube never had a problem before either. Leaving the propane on doesn't guarantee a fire every time - it just takes the risk level from zero to something you don't want to be a part of!

So a pilot light isn't they only issue here. Even if you have electronic ignition the appliance may still ignite and run for a bit with the propane turned off at the source! So please, turn off those appliances and be a happy camper instead of a sorry statistic!

[otr]

Originally Posted by @Michael

NFPA (National Fire Protection Association®) has some interesting statistics on gas station fires:

https://www.nfpa.org//-/media/Files/...cestations.pdf

did not really look like rv propane situations were a significant cause of gas station fires, did I miss something?

[SeabeckStan]

Considering that a rather trivial action can prevent a catastrophic loss - I guess I would consider even one preventable fire to be "significant".

[Asphalt Addict]

Gas refer in 3 class b's 400k and I've never turned it off while refueling. Now you got me worried. If I start now I know I will forget to relight and my beer will be warm.

CA pumps that seal for fumes might help but most of my traveling is not CA.

[rogerstg]

Life is full of weighing risks, so it's important to understand the risk. The risk at a gas station is not so much that your fueling will cause a fire, it's that you will drive in after someone has spilled a few gallons and the flame from your appliances ignites the vapors.

While driving, propane should be shut off at the tank. The risk is that an accident will cause the propane lines to rupture, allowing ignition from other sources.

BTW, if propane is off at the tank, there is no need to turn off anything before driving into a gas station.

Personally, I rarely turn off my propane at the tank while driving and sometimes run the fridge on gas while driving. I may not even turn the fridge off before entering a gas station, depending on mitigating factors (always off when fueling). The primary mitigating factor is wind. Wind dissapates fuel vapors before they can reach ignitable concentrations.

[otr]

[QUOTE=rogerstg;141840]Life is full of weighing risks, so it's important to understand the risk. The risk at a gas station is not so much that your fueling will cause a fire, it's that you will drive in after someone has spilled a few gallons and the flame from your appliances ignites the vapors.

While driving, propane should be shut off at the tank. The risk is that an accident will cause the propane lines to rupture, allowing ignition from other sources.

BTW, if propane is off at the tank, there is no need to turn off anything before driving into a gas station.

Personally, I rarely turn off my propane at the tank while driving and sometimes run the fridge on gas while driving. I may not even turn the fridge off before entering a gas station, depending on mitigating factors (always off when fueling). The primary mitigating factor is wind. Wind dissapates fuel vapors before they can reach ignitable concentrations.

I think the topic is covered!

"Personally, I rarely turn off my propane at the tank while driving and sometimes run the fridge on gas while driving. I may not even turn the fridge off before entering a gas station, depending on mitigating factors (always off when fueling). The primary mitigating factor is wind. Wind dissapates fuel vapors before they can reach ignitable concentrations."

[booster]

A couple of things to point out about a couple previous posts.


While I agree that you have to get to the lower explosive limit of vapor in the air to ignite, you really can't judge very reliably if it is near or not, plus you never know when a filler backsplash or a spill at a neighboring pump will happen. Don't ever count on the wind blowing or not to be safe, IMO.


Second, just turning off the propane does not prevent a gasoline fire if you have electronic ignition stuff that is electrically turned on, as it can still strike and arc even though the flame won't light. Both the propane and power to the devices need to be off.

[phantomjock]

Originally Posted by booster

A couple of things to point out about a couple previous posts.
Second, just turning off the propane does not prevent a gasoline fire if you have electronic ignition stuff that is electrically turned on, as it can still strike and arc even though the flame won't light. Both the propane and power to the devices need to be off.

booster -
I've been reading applicable postings as we prepare to extracate our RT from storage. I have a question regarding this "dated" comment.

Background: Our Dometic 3-way refrigerator has propane, 12v and 120v heat sources. Clearly the propane fired heating could be a significant risk during refueling.
But my understanding was the 12v would not - as it is a heating element - not an open source~flame.

Have I got that right? I've been looking for documentation to prove this, and know you are now compressor driven refrigeration, but thought it a worthy question to ask.

TIA - Cheers - Jim

[booster]

Originally Posted by phantomjock

booster -
I've been reading applicable postings as we prepare to extracate our RT from storage. I have a question regarding this "dated" comment.

Background: Our Dometic 3-way refrigerator has propane, 12v and 120v heat sources. Clearly the propane fired heating could be a significant risk during refueling.
But my understanding was the 12v would not - as it is a heating element - not an open source~flame.

Have I got that right? I've been looking for documentation to prove this, and know you are now compressor driven refrigeration, but thought it a worthy question to ask.

TIA - Cheers - Jim

I would have to guess that the resistant heater in a frig probably wouldn't be much of an issue unless it had some kind of a contactor switch to control it either from the control or thermostat. They can spark, and could be a problem but not nearly as bad as an ignitor, I would guess.


I think I would worry more about the unit doing it's auto switching routine and turning on the propane by itself so the ignitor fired. It has been a long time since we had our 07 vintage 3 way, but I do think it is supposed to stay in 12v when you stop unless you switch it out of that mode manually, but I am not certain about that. It would pay to test that to make sure before leaving it in DC mode and running, I think.


There are so many potential sparks that can happen, but rarely do, that are capable of getting a gas fume fire it probably would scare us all a bunch if we knew them. Just a few years ago there was a cluster of ones caused by people getting back in the vehicle while the pump was running, and static from sliding across the seat sparked and caused a fire when they got out, of all things.



I think the worst fumes I have ever seen was when somebody at a close pump let it run over on the ground. That was a bit scary.