Should Newbies Steer Clear of Every Buying an RV

[NorthPotomac]

I've been a member of this forum for awhile now, learning a lot about class B's and gradually narrowing down the field of choices for what will become my wife's and my first RV. We were excited about moving forward and entering this new lifestyle sometime in 2017.

But I've also read the important six part series in the RV Daily Report about the so-called death spiral of the North American RV industry. Frankly, I've also read, on this forum and on Facebook, what are by now countless stories of owners of Class B's who were unable to enjoy their rigs because of endless breakdowns and defects. The

You-tube by a Michigan attorney

, counseling us NOT to ever buy an RV, had initially struck me as hyperbole -- I'm an attorney myself and understand that it's easy to see just one side of any story. But I'm being worn down. I'm starting to really have doubts about our plan to see the continent in a Class B.

Some of this seems to be related to what I have concluded is surprisingly shoddy quality control at the manufacturing level (contrasting greatly with the improving quality control of "mere" cars and trucks thanks to robotization, etc). Quality control seems to vary by manufacturer, and thanks to this forum, the Facebook owners' pages, and other sources, I've slowly but surely been able to draw conclusions about certain brands being better quality than others. But other issues relate to service -- and I've simply not been able to find reliable consumer reports on the quality of work of different dealers' (and private RV) service departments. I had been skeptical of all the stories of repeated bad service, since it seemed to me that there was money to be made (whether buyers' money or manufacturers' warranty payments) in service and therefore good service should be a competitively offered product. I figured that there are always a few bad outcomes out of millions of RV's, and the bad outcomes were the ones naturally getting all the press. But the RV Daily Report series linked to above provided a rational economic explanation for a systemic failure to provide good service. I encourage forum members to read the series.

So as my wife and I got increasingly excited about the prospect of starting a new phase of our lives with the help of a Class B, a gnawing but growing feeling that this is a minefield to be avoided has arisen. The RV Daily Report notes that despite millions of new RV's being produced over the past 10 years, the number of RV owners has actually stayed stagnant -- that means that for every potential new RV-er like us one more has dropped out. Is RV-ing a fool's game that, at least in North America (maybe the Europeans have gotten it down right), is only winnable for the lucky few who are either mechanics or who get a rare good unit and find a rare good service provider?

I realize that by definition most forum members here are already RV-ers, and that disgruntled folks who have left the pastime will have also left the forum. So there's a built-in conflict of interests, of sorts -- maybe I should search out forums of EX-RV'ers! But I'm nonetheless confident, from having read so many learned and useful posts on this forum, that there are many who are willing to address this issue objectively.

[Twinbridges]

I have Midwest Automotive Design B and the quality is great. Stopped by dealer as I had set the inverter incorrectly and he talked to tech support and fixed it for no charge!

Fit and finish is amazing. Buy quality and you will love it as I do.

Have put 14,000 miles on it in the last six months and it is flawless.

[BBQ]

.

Don't get discouraged.
People have been RVing for decades, and are still happily RVing today.
You just have to decide what fits you is what you want.
(or should I say, "You have to decide what you want is what fits you").


There are 3 parts that made up a Class B, and each have their own "problems".

1. The chassis -- The popular ones are Mercedes Benz Sprinter (diesel), RAM ProMaster, and the fading but not going away (yet) Chevy Express.

2. The "appliances" -- the fridge, the hot water heater, the furnace, the air conditioner, the generator, the batteries, the inverter, the solar panels, etc.,

3. The integration -- how the RV manufacturer ties all the individual pieces together to make it an "RV System".



A lot of the "problems" you read on the internet can be categorized into 3 reasons:

1. People hadn't read the instructions, or misunderstood the instructions.

2. RV manufacturers did not provide good instructions.
This is partly due to the new technology they implemented in their RV are changing so quickly, they do not have time to catch up.

3. The system and/or components do not work.
You will find a lot of these complaints are related to new tech.



... to be continued

[booster]

I certainly wouldn't stay away from RVs just because of some potential issues, or because other people may not being as gung-ho about RVing as in the past. Go with what you want, in the kind of RV that suits your style. Being new to it, you may chose incorrectly in some things initially, but we all go through that. Actually doing stuff is different than researching and hearing other folks opinions and doings. If if you decide you got the wrong RV the first time, it is correctable. Many will get a used one first to see what they like and don't like, which is a good idea IMO. We intended to do that, but stumbled across a new one at such a good deal we did that instead, as it was just what we thought we wanted. We got lucky, and it was good for us. We have had it for 8 years now. I will point out that we are quite risk aversive, as it appears you are, also.

That said, there can be a case made to stay away from some things that might be issues. Some of the newest technology has been an issue, especially for Roadtrek, for instance. But, in general, most of the class Bs are put together with similar parts, on common vans that are from the OEMs, so even if the brand went away, repair would still be available.

You might want to do a rental and get to some campgrounds and talk to the people that are there. I think you would be very surprised how very few you will find complaining or worried about the things you have mentioned. The internet collects complaints a lot more readily than satisfactions, and the campgrounds collect everyone that is out camping, and is not filtered, so you get much more objective information.

[MsNomer]

Build your own. Even a girl can do it. Even a girl lawyer can do it.

[Ron J. Moore]

Did you go thru this dilemma when you bought your cars or home? Don't put the build quality and all that before your future enjoyment. We all have researched, worried if it was right, but in the end made the best decision on our B's. Buy the one that you like the best, and then hit the road for some short "get acquainted" trips...you will then know you settled for the one best suited to your lifestyle. Good luck, Ron

[JohnMFlores]

Count me as someone that is doing their homework before their first purchase and who is very wary of quality issues based on everything that I've seen and heard. The prospect of buying a new RV for full-time living and then having to spend weeks waiting for warranty service (while living with a defective part) and/or have to be without the RV for weeks while it is being serviced frightens me a bit. Not enough to put me off completely, but my current thinking is that I should look for something used with low mileage, but enough mileage that I can be pretty confident that the previous owner has had to experience and take care of the poor/rushed build issues that RVs seem to be afflicted with. Does this strategy make sense?

[Bruceper]

I would suggest to any newcomer to buy used and fix it up mechanically. Class B's keep a decent value so you likely won't lose out on resale.

This path can save tens of thousands and may limit your loss if you end up deciding it's not for you.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Build your own. Even a girl can do it. Even a girl lawyer can do it.

+1

[tgregg]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Build your own. Even a girl can do it. Even a girl lawyer can do it.

I agree, build your own.

Most commercially built RV's we've seen are constructed without any thought about future maintenance or repairs to either the RV components or the base vehicle.

[BobB]

I totally agree with all the above advice, but let me offer a different take on this. (the long answer)

I have skimmed (not thoroughly read,though) Gerber’s articles “RV Industry Death Spiral” and he makes some very good points. I have been to Hershey and seen the crap (IMO) that is being sold. Thin fiberglass/composite boxes on wheels. If it is not wood or decent plywood, cover it in vinyl woodgrain. Promises from dealers. The salespeople are just salespeople - they could be selling Lady Kenmores - it is all the same to them. IMO again. I am generalizing. Please note he is also talking about the entire RV industry - 356,000 units shipped in 2014. Only 3,000 Class Bs were shipped in 2014. Just 0.8%.

If you look at an industry as a whole, it is easy to make generalizations, and assume the whole industry is going down the tubes. But, he could be talking about the housing industry, or the boating industry, too. It is a bit like the actuarial industry for insurance - If I listened to them, I would never leave my house.

Consider that you are not buying all those RVs - you are buying one Class B. I think that is what you need to focus on.

I can understand your trepidation about buying an RV (whether any class, new or used). Lots of questions - will it work?, what happens if it something breaks?, can I fix it?, does the dealer know what he is doing?, can I trust the dealer?, what if I am in the middle of nowhere?, how much will it cost?, how much will I spend? Part of your trepidation is well-founded - you may have never owned one before and/or may not have any experience with them.

FB and forums that are really really good at helping to solve your problems - how do I fix this? Got a problem - go the web and post your question. The downside of FB and forums is they are full of complaints, problems, etc. How often do you hear “I am happy with my [fill in blank] RV”? IMO - It is a bit like the “bad news dominates the headlines” phenomenon. Good news becomes boring. Problems and complaints tend to predominate what is on the RV FB pages and RV forums. Actually, the Class Bs have been getting better over the years - more reliable systems, better energy systems, etc. There’s a curious dynamic in human psychology whereby as things improve, we sometimes complain about them even more.

We own a house built ca. 1895. We love it, but things do go wrong. Things need to be repaired and/or updated. It helps I am handy with tools and construction. We expect it and we budget for it. We put x$ in your budget for repairs and maintenance every year. Don’t know if or what will break, but it’s there. And I have phone numbers of good electricians, plumbers, contractors if I need them

We own a 1999 VW Eurovan Camper. Bought used with 103k miles. Did the research, asked the questions, but make no mistake about it - I expected for some things to break, mods needed, upgrades needed. We expect it and we budget for it. We put x$ in your budget for repairs and maintenance every year.

So that brings up the question “what are your expectations?” and the related followup question “what is your tolerance level for something needing to be fixed, going wrong, etc.”

For the record, I would tend to look for used, not new, maybe 1-3 years old, low mileage, kinks worked out. People do sell/trade in because a B is not for them and/or they want bigger. Prefer to buy from dealer, but private is fine; research seller. Research the brand/model. Local dealer for support (research them, too) Has the systems you want for your budget. Not concerned about warranties; save the $ from the price and keep it in reserve.

[Billyboy46]

My thought on the numbers of people using RVs relates to my own experience - I have owned two towables, one small and the second larger - now nothing. My wife turned out to not be an RV fan - so we're out of the group of owners. Maybe others are like us.

Second thought is that cars are smaller than they used to be, so only the truck and large SUV owners can tow what are increasing large RVs

Third thought is that many more retirees are more eco conscious and driving a big Class A does not match their values. My thought is that this is why Class B's are in such high demand.

The issue of campground quality and shortage (esp in the East) is a factor - I haven't been on the road for over 10 years now, but it was an issue when we were RVing.

I still wish that things were different in our joint tastes for RVing - I'd be buying a B asap.

[JohnMFlores]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Build your own. Even a girl can do it. Even a girl lawyer can do it.

While I love the idea of this I'm quite certain that my second build will be great because it will address all the shortcomings and mistakes I made with my first build.

Problem is, I can't go straight to my second build.

I admire all the little changes that Winnebago is making to the Travato over the years, for example. If only they had a culture of quality in their organization.

[Keyne]

As mentioned above it's about expectations. If you expect perfection or quibable about small issues then maybe it's not for you because even the best have issues. Also it's a rolling home so even the best built will have issues eventually. If you are the kind of person that complains or gets stressed about issues in you home or in life in general then maybe it's not for you. However if you are more interested in experiencing road trips, adventure, outdoors, meeting mostly nice people, and getting away from home.... and are determined to not be deterred by occasional issues then have fun with it... all of it if you can including the issues. Note sounds like how I think about life in general not just RV's but oh well. Also if you could build your own... then you could most likely fix or learn to fix a class B you bought new or used and get on the road quicker.

I forget which famous overland adventurer said it but he travel
led the world in Land Rovers so he was used to dealing with mechanical issues. He said that if it were a small issue no big deal just fix quickly and carry on... if it's larger... make some tea. Make some tea, relax, and figure out what to do. We use that saying all the time in our family and maybe more people just need to make some tea and get on with it. Many things get blown out of proportion and really don't matter that much in the end.

It's an RV... for most people it's supposed to be fun. you can always find videos or people to say it's nuts but if it's not going to be fun for you then well... don't do it. If newbies steer clear of buying one then how would we have any experienced owners? RVs are expensive and in most situations not a rationale purchase so if that is your aim the math most likely won't work for you. But eyes open etc and you can have some great memories to last forever. Fear regret more than failure.

[4DMTNS]

As a newbie waiting for delivery of a Hymer Aktiv, I confronted a number of your questions myself. I looked at FWD/RWD/4x4, new/used/build options, spent time talking to actual ClassB owners camped near me in my tent this summer, and ultimately decided to buy a new rig with the knowledge that I would be working out kinks. I also accepted that I've probably made some mistakes in my choices.

Price was a limiter for me, so no 4x4, and I skipped the upgrade option to Lithium Ion batteries and the VoltStart on the Aktiv. But, I did go with the 250watt solar panel option.

I spend quite a bit of time along backroads throughout Oregon, Washington and Idaho, so I chose a chassis that I thought could get emergency service by most mechanics, battery type that could be easily located and purchased should I screw it up, and gas vs diesel after noticing how few stations offered diesel on some of my road-trips.

And, then I started looking at rigs to see how they felt once inside. I did my fair share of opening/closing doors/drawers, sitting in the passenger seat turned to look at the rig while reading a brochure, rolling under the rigs, climbing on ladders, etc. I also brought my backpack and a dog (clean) blanket along to check fits.

Ultimately, I chose to remember Life is short, don't forget to just live it.

As I wait for delivery, I am going through our kitchen and house picking out items that we think we need/want in the van and stashing them in the closet. If we can stock the van with camping gear and extra items from the house to save some $$ for misc items once we do our maiden voyages I'll be happy.

I hope this was helpful to hear another newbie. Best of luck.

[Johnny R]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Build your own. Even a girl can do it. Even a girl lawyer can do it.

I suppose this was intended as humor even though it shows a sad lack of respect.

[MsNomer]

Yes, it was intended as humor. No disrespect intended and I apologize if I did. I am the "girl lawyer" and MrNomer regularly corrects the presumption that he did the work instead it being my creation.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Yes, it was intended as humor. No disrespect intended and I apologize if I did. I am the "girl lawyer" and MrNomer regularly corrects the presumption that he did the work instead it being my creation.

You don't owe any apology to anyone. Keep on truckin

[wincrasher]

In my experience there are two groups who usually get screwed on RV's.

Those that buy the high $ fancy deisel pusher class A with all the complex systems. Every brand has thier own issues, as none are immune. Even spending $1 million doesn't guarantee a good experience. Basically the luck of the draw.

Those that buy solely on price. They buy the cheapest they can get and then demand perfection. Usually the all-glitz type RV (doesn't matter A, C or trailer) at an unbelievable low price turn out to be full of assembly shortcuts and poor engineering decisions.

Of course there are outliers. I'm speaking in generalities of course. I'm a fairly careful consumer, but I've been burned in the past too. But RVing is a lifestyle - even with poor quality rigs, you still want to pursue the adventure.

What is more troubling is the variation of experience. As I've stated numberous times, I've had extraodianary good luck with the 3 Travatos I've owned. Admittedly, they aren't built from the best materials available. But I've found them to be essentially problem free. Not to say there aren't design shortcomings and cosmetic issues here and there. But I've never had a trip interruption or had to change my plans due to an issue with the van. My experience is fairly typical, but there are still horror stories out there of people (some in my Facebook group) who've had nothing but problems and terrible dealer and WGO experiences. I have a hard time understanding the inconsistency of the builds - especially after touring the factory and seeing how they are built.

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

In my experience there are two groups who usually get screwed on RV's.

Those that buy the high $ fancy deisel pusher class A with all the complex systems. Every brand has thier own issues, as none are immune. Even spending $1 million doesn't guarantee a good experience. Basically the luck of the draw.

Those that buy solely on price. They buy the cheapest they can get and then demand perfection. Usually the all-glitz type RV (doesn't matter A, C or trailer) at an unbelievable low price turn out to be full of assembly shortcuts and poor engineering decisions.

Of course there are outliers. I'm speaking in generalities of course. I'm a fairly careful consumer, but I've been burned in the past too. But RVing is a lifestyle - even with poor quality rigs, you still want to pursue the adventure.

What is more troubling is the variation of experience. As I've stated numberous times, I've had extraodianary good luck with the 3 Travatos I've owned. Admittedly, they aren't built from the best materials available. But I've found them to be essentially problem free. Not to say there aren't design shortcomings and cosmetic issues here and there. But I've never had a trip interruption or had to change my plans due to an issue with the van. My experience is fairly typical, but there are still horror stories out there of people (some in my Facebook group) who've had nothing but problems and terrible dealer and WGO experiences. I have a hard time understanding the inconsistency of the builds - especially after touring the factory and seeing how they are built.

Quality inconsistency is my biggest concern. Trying to do the best due diligence I can up front but depending on requirements the options get pretty small (e.g. I can't fit the driver seat of a Promaster and we want a short Sprinter), however I think the purchase pick-up walk through/review and assuming you will have some issues (hopefully minor) is the best you can do.