Security while Boondocking

[Doneworking]

About eight summers ago an early retired couple from a small town about forty miles from OKC were taking their trailer and heading out for their annual summer trip up to Pagosa Springs, Colorado, for a few months in the summer. They pulled off of Interstate 40 into a rest stop near Santa Rosa, New Mexico.

Along came three prison escapees from Arizona looking for a vehicle. They killed the couple and took their pull vehicle. This was not way back in the boonies, but just off a major highway in the middle of the night. Later, they caught the escapees and one was wearing the victims John Deere cap.

This story struck a real cord with us because we were focused on buying a small travel trailer to pull behind a Jeep Cherokee. We have always had Bs and Cs and just wanted to try out the trailer camping style for a few summers. We kept our B. We still have our B. You don't have to leave your rig to sleep, go to the toilet or cook. You are in your own little cocoon and logic tells me that is much safer than getting out of your vehicle and walking back to your trailer. Plus, a bad guy would not likely want to use an RV for a getaway vehicle.

My first preference for protection is the panic button on my keychain. The second is bear spray and the third is a gun. All three accompany us in our travels most of the time.

You hit the panic button on the fob in the middle of the night and seems to me you have about all the noise you need if noise is going to be a deterrent.

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

Along came three prison escapees from Arizona looking for a vehicle. They killed the couple and took their pull vehicle. This was not way back in the boonies, but just off a major highway in the middle of the night. Later, they caught the escapees and one was wearing the victims John Deere cap.

They took the small travel trailer, too. They wanted a place to sleep as well as wheels. The victims should have protected themselves better. Don't ever let the perps drive you away. Die in the rest area if you have to but do not allow them to take you away.

I have a proximity switch on the fuel pump power. If you don't know about it you can't get the engine to start.

When the wife drove a van cross country alone I had the anti carjacking system installed. If you don't punch in the code the lights will blink, horn go off and eventually the engine will quit. Don't know that you can get them anymore as they are dangerous. I had it activate several times inadvertently. My fault but dangerous. Once while accelerating on to the freeway. Eventually the relays in it failed and I had to remove it. I miss it.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by avanti

(Why gun-culture folk are so fond of concealment is beyond me. Shouldn't they be proud? )

Many good reasons actually. Which I won't go into here since there's been enough posts on firearms already. But consider this, since Texas past open-carry in October '2017, I have yet to see a single person exercising that right. Mainly, the law prevents someone from an inadvertent violation of the old conceal law by exposing a concealed carry like maybe a shirt riding up while bending over or a woman opening her purse to retrieve her wallet.
.

[gregmchugh]

I very well recognize that bad things happen almost everywhere and based on the risks of various bad things I take what I feel are appropriate measures to either reduce the possibility of the risk or reduce the impact of the risk if it does happen. I understand also that each person will have a life history that will effect their perception of the risks no matter what the actual statistics show in terms of the likelihood of the risk. People will also have different perceptions of the risks based on information they consume from the media which may or may not be representative of the actual likelihood of the risks.

In the end, we all make decision on these things that may not make sense to others but make sense to us which is all that really matters from my view. I may feel that many people are over reacting to things that are not very likely to occur and are missing out on opportunities to explore areas that are interesting to visit but I wouldn’t presume to negate their feelings just because I take an engineers view of risk based on actual statistics without much worry about all the stories of bad things that happen.

[Alec]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

because I take an engineers view of risk based on actual statistics without much worry about all the stories of bad things that happen.

So, is there any kind of insurance you buy?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Alec

So, is there any kind of insurance you buy?

Of course I have insurance for our vehicles and renters insurance to cover our possessions in storage (we are full timers). A tree branch fell on our Jeep at an RV park in a storm which is something I insure against but with $500 deductible. I very rarely buy extended warranty coverage on anything but I got a good price on a lifetime warranty on our Jeep when we bought it in 2008. Has covered several items at $100 deductable and paid for itself. I have term life insurance at a reasonable rate through a company retiree group plan. I buy Medicare supplemental and Rx coverage. I have long term care insurance through another retiree group plan.

What did I say that would indicate that I wouldn’t buy insurance?

I did say I protect myself against risks that I think are likely to occur.

I carry bear spray and have an Inreach and PLB to have SOS capability when out in the boondocks (Alaska, Yukon, NWT, etc.)

I have redundant systems for heating and cooking in case one fails out in boondocks. I carry common spare parts for the RV including a spare tire that weighs 300 lb and has a davit to get it out from the rear storage area. I carry a reasonable set of tools to handle common repairs.

I have a drinking water filter that removes bacteria, viruses, etc...

I think that covers it...

[MsNomer]

Tonight I should be safe in a campground patrolled by 5 separate law enforcement entities.

[DonkeyFluffer]

In 1985 I shot a man while he was committing a home invasion of my residence. I had been sleeping but was wakened by my wife. Our 4 year old daughter was in her room, between us and the felon. He went to intensive care for three weeks, then back to prison. I did not know him. His prior convictions included multiple burglaries and assaults. The police did the report at my coffee table and assured me that my reaction was the only viable one. They came as soon as they were dispatched and it was 9 minutes until they arrived.

The cops likely won't reach you in time to prevent the worst either.

In 1991, I used multiple weapons systems to engage and destroy the enemy that was shooting at my soldiers.

After retiring from the Army, I became a police officer. In 2001, I found it necessary to use my issued handgun to save the life of the young man that i was training, only five days after his academy graduation. The suspect was a recently paroled felon. He died instantly and my rookie went home to his wife that evening. I was cleared after a full investigation and the police camera footage shut down any armchair quarterbacks. The felons mother still sued me but was unsuccessful.

I was involved in several other incidents while a member of the Special Operations Squad.

As a contractor in Iraq and Afghanistan, I've used weapons on a number of deployments. The last being in 2012.

I currently teach people to stay alive. This involves awareness, self defense, firearms, driving, and other related personal security topics.

I have a couple things to opine on. I read this entire thread.

1. Shotguns, even using 00 buck with the most open choke, have to be aimed. Especially at the short ranges in and around your RV that opened this discussion. Now, you can illegally modify one to shoot more like a blunderbuss of yore, but that makes you a criminal too.

I remember one of the gates to pass in SWAT school was the hostage situation. You're facing a suspect, holding a hostage in front of him, only half his face is visible behind the hostages head, so maybe 4 inches of valid target. (This is all done with plastic targets, good guy laid over the bad). You have a police shotgun with 00 buck and are 5 yards away. For those that don't know, 00 buck has 9 lead shots in each shell. At the buzzer, you have two seconds to bring the shotgun up from the low ready and shoot the suspect in the head without a single one of the 9 shots hitting the hostage. Where do you aim? Right at the outer edge of the suspects face. 7/9 of my shots hit the suspect, 2 missed outside, and zero hit the hostage. Point being, you have to aim a shotgun or you will miss. It's also an unwieldy weapon for RV living, especially a Class B. Over penetration is another concern with this very powerful weapon.

Bear spray and pepper spray are valid weapons but do not work as much as people think. Anyone that has even been sprayed knows it sucks but you also don't feel like panic and flight are your only options. Some people, and some bears, only get angered and continue their assault. It's better than nothing and I've handed it out to many friends and family. My advice is to spray and run, as the difficulty seeing is it's most debilitating effect.

Dime store stun guns? Worthless. Hollywood makes it seem like they knock a man out. They don't, we frequently would zap each other for fun.

Police level tasers? Very effective and available to many civilians. They aren't cheap, comparable to a quality handgun. Same advice, tase and run. The taser only debilitates for up to 5 seconds, then it shuts off. It is the longest five seconds the suspect will ever feel, but he will be fully functional after that. I used one to bring down a 320lb enraged biker, the five seconds was long enough for my partner to get the cuffs started.

Knives, baseball bats, Kung Fu? Sure, up close and personal and you better know what you're doing and you better stab, swing, or chop with every ounce of energy you have in you. Because the suspect only needs to deflect you once and he's in to close for you to be effective. I call those secondary options at best, for desperate times, maybe useful for fighting your way to your gun.

The snide comment about why we prefer concealed to open carry was stupid. Simple as that. You don't advertise that you are armed. It makes you the number one target when the bad guy enters the room.

I advise nobody to carry a gun that doesn't believe in them. I don't want untrained people using lethal weapons anywhere in my vicinity. I respect your right to not carry. But you will never convince me that guns aren't a major reason I'm still alive today.

For the RV lifestyle, I recommend (stored safely but quickly accessed) a semi auto handgun of 9mm or larger caliber or a revolver of .38 or 357. Either should have visible night sights, they are cheap and allow accuracy during limited visibility times. Train with it, get really competent with it. Load it with decent hollow point bullets, ball ammunition may not stop a bad guy quick enough and snake shot is only good for snakes. Using snake shot on a person is still deadly force, shooting to wound is Hollywood only.

For frequent boondockers, especially in very isolated locales, a rifle in 5.56 or larger is not unreasonable. A shotgun, if you prefer, is not a horrible choice either.

You shoot to stop the agression that caused you to shoot in the first place, that can be one round or that could be several magazines. Deadly force, once applied, cannot be taken back but if the alternative means death or serious bodily injury for yourself or the ones you love, then you have to do the right thing. I choose to not take chances. All the comments about guns being good or bad are for you guys to debate. I'm sick of it. In America, you still have right to choose to have a gun or not. I'm thankful for that. Choose wisely, I wont try to change your mind but please don't try to change mine.

I also advise everyone to know how to use a tourniquet. The old mantra that it will cost you a limb is simply untrue. I've watched this firsthand many times. Carry them in your house, car, shop, garage, RV, and backpack.

Truth be told, I'm not a gun nut. I've always loved at them as tools in my toolbox and not something to fondle and drool over. What I am is a lover of freedom and I'll be going from multiple 2 - 3 week RV trips per year to full time in a couple years and I look forward to meeting many of you.

Peace Out,
Jim

[rowiebowie]

Jim, excellent first post.

Great reply. Comprehensive. Not for everybody as you say.

I appreciate your service, past & current.
.

[Phoebe3]

A cogent and well-reasoned post.

As for your service in the army and later as a police officer, thank you for facing some really ugly things so the rest of us don't have to.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by DonkeyFluffer

The snide comment about why we prefer concealed to open carry was stupid. Simple as that. You don't advertise that you are armed. It makes you the number one target when the bad guy enters the room.

Respectfully, the comment was neither snide nor stupid. The thought of camping with my family next to somebody with a semi automatic weapon and hollow bullets makes my flesh crawl. It is not reasonable to force me to risk doing so unawares. I actually appreciate those macho pro gun bumper stickers, because they signal that I should move on. If all carry were open, a lot of sunshine would be cast on what is going on. If it makes you a target, well, it seems a reasonable balance to require you to include that in your calculation. Most police can't conceal, you shouldn't either, absent special needs, which I acknowledge.

[There is a lot more I would like to say here, but please, everyone, respect the forum's prohibition of the mere political. Posts sticking to campground safety are in bounds.]

[rowiebowie]

Sleep tight then, there are no automatic weapons next to you. At home, in public, or in campgrounds.
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[avanti]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Sleep tight then, there are no automatic weapons next to you. At home, in public, or in campgrounds.
.

Obvious typo - fixed.

[rowiebowie]

I accept your correction to "semi" as a previous typo. To address your other point, you should be glad for conceal carry, less worry for you.

[DonkeyFluffer]

Cops can and do carry concealed, when not displaying a badge. On duty or off.

For every gun sticker you see on a bumper, there are probably 10 that don't "advertise". Many of these people are ones that you chat with and you have thought of them as "good folks".

That's because they are. They just happen to make a legal choice you don't like. If they worry you, then the issue is you. What would cause you to fear a law abiding citizen?

[DonkeyFluffer]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Jim, excellent first post.

Great reply. Comprehensive. Not for everybody as you say.

I appreciate your service, past & current.
.

Thank you

I have a C and looking at a B now. Hence why I joined your forum, to educate myself.

[DonkeyFluffer]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

A cogent and well-reasoned post.



As for your service in the army and later as a police officer, thank you for facing some really ugly things so the rest of us don't have to.

Thank you. Knowing that most of the public supports us is helpful.

[JeanM]

These solar re-charging motion-activated lights are great things in my opinion.

I find that their cheap construction is a more of a feature than a bug.

If I'm going to temporarily attach anything to the outside of my van - something that anybody passing by could easily just reach up and take with them - I don't want it to cost more than $5-10 to replace.

[hbn7hj]

As a followup the escaped prisoners were caught later in a campground. A ranger stopped by, noticed the towing vehicle was backed into the bushes to hide the license plate, wisely and luckily, said hello and went on his way calling a swat team. Don't remember how the actual takedown went. There were no further injuries.

Thanks for Donkeyfluffer's post. You know bullets, we know batteries so anything we can do to help, just ask.

[NW Lady]

I didn't read all the replies but....

My niece, who does a lot of traveling/camping by herself, has a good idea....

She has a flare gun that she used when she had a boat. Now, she carries it in her car. A flare to the chest would be painful and colorful and would likely deter anyone!

I have since bought one and carry it with me.

Also, great to have if needed to attract attention for help.