Security while Boondocking

[AZ ADVenturist]

Well said!

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by booster

... I would bet it is very likely hundreds of times more likely that you are going to get killed or injured driving to the places where you would get attacked by a bear, moose, feral dogs, criminals, rabid titmice, ....

Of course - no argument there. But we've arguably already reached the point of diminishing returns on that "interior" failure mode via the protective safety standards that have been integrated into automotive design (seat belts, cab reinforcements, safety glass, crumple zones, proximity warning systems, tire minders, etc. etc.).

Like the OP who asked this question, I don't automatically assume that the average Class B-er has reached the point of diminishing returns on "exterior" reasonable protective standards. To simply step outside the vehicle at the destination with no security measures whatsoever does not equal point of diminishing returns, in my view. There is a sweet spot of preparedness somewhere between "nothing at all" and "full body armor plus a loaded Armalite".

Humorous BTW: Titmice can neither get nor transmit rabies. Rabies is only contagious among certain mammals, the most common of which is the raccoon (against which a leg knife could be potentially useful). Rabid animals do not feel pain in the normal way of it, so pepper spray might not elicit the desired response.

Titmouse species are birds. They are of a very engaging and entertaining genus (Baeolophus). It's a convenient thing that they cannot get rabies, because they can often be persuaded to eat out of your hand. I used to tame them when I was a kid in Canada. In the depths of winter where food is scarce, if you are offering sunflower seeds, birds will significantly lower their interactive standards. They will take the chance of landing on you to score a sunflower seed. YouTube is full of such videos.

[ks@yvr]

Good point about leaving front window without sun-shades that hasn’t been mentioned yet and another easy potential extra security item. But then gps and inReach can become visible showing potential opportunity for wrongdoer. Each solution comes with unintended side effects but it really helps to think through your plan in advance. Many great ideas.

I am sure someone must make magnetic motion sensitive security lights as someone else mentioned to for another quick fix. I haven’t seen them but there is battery everything these days.

Thanks again for all the great ideas.

Walmart drop shipping is kind of off topic that I like. Amazon has a 3 day rule for pick up at their lockers that I find problematic if I am not stationary - I may be delayed or can’t get to locker in 3 day window and if lockers are all full and one is unavailable makes Walmart again better choice for unexpected needed part.

[InterBlog]

The problem I've encountered to date with magnetic motion lights is cheap construction. I've bought a few, but they don't last. Junk from Asian mass production facilities. If anyone knows of a good quality source or brand, please post.

[kite_rider]

Interesting thread and a topic that all of us that boondock think about while camping out in the middle of nowhere.

After countless nights boondocking all around the Pacific Northwest, the southwest, Texas, and Mexico; I've only had one situation with a late night lurker (in California). Keep in mind that I'm always travelling with expensive mountain bikes, surf boards, and sometimes a motorcycle. So I consider my setup to be an attractant to would be thieves.

Anyway, what I have and not seen mentioned much in these posts, is a really powerful flashlight. The idea being that you want to light up any suspicious character in your camp just like the police do when they approach a questionable situation. Even though I have too many guns laying around the house (I grew up in Idaho); I don't bring them along on camping trips. I'm too worried that I'll forget and accidentally bring one into Mexico or Canada and find myself in some really big trouble.

Now to really stir up controversy about guns, I'll lay out my bias. Old people should think twice about packing heat. Many are overly paranoid and probably not that good with a firearm in a tense situation anyway. When I was in college an exchange student I knew (from Japan) was shot and killed by some old folks in a tragic misunderstanding. He had the address wrong for a party he was trying to find and was banging on the backdoor of a house. His English wasn't good and the old folks living there got freaked out so they shot and killed him from the other side of the door.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

The problem I've encountered to date with magnetic motion lights is cheap construction. I've bought a few, but they don't last. Junk from Asian mass production facilities. If anyone knows of a good quality source or brand, please post.

This brand of solar powered motion sensing outdoor lights has always gotten good reviews and I have some of the older models that work fine. Not magnetic but it would be easy to glue magnets on the back to attach them to the van when you want them in place. Solar has an upside (no charging or battery replacement) and a downside if you are not keeping them in the sun enough to keep them charged...

https://www.amazon.com/Optional-Wire...dp_ob_title_hi

[RossWilliams]

Personality III - Watches too much TV and internet and plans for all the unusual things they see from its clickbait, while ignoring the things that really raise their risk dramatically. Like talking on the phone while driving.

My Sprinter has all sorts of fancy controls to warn me about things like straying over the line. It also has a bluetooth connection for my phone and steering wheel buttons to facilitate answering calls and carrying on a phone conversations while in the drivers seat. Which the evidence shows creates about the same risk as taking three shots of whiskey.

[ks@yvr]

I am generally type 2 with everything that is not what I call life threatening, breakdowns although very rare I treat as part of the adventure and address as happens. Macerator pumps, water pumps and couch switches I will wait for them to fail before dealing with, however with security that may affect myself and my family I am ‘type 1’ and do possibly over think. I won’t let it spoil my travels and a few minor twikes to my routines can greating increase my peace of mind.

I find generally most people in ALL societies try to be helpful and although some bad people do exist everywhere as long as you don’t go looking for trouble in the obvious places you can travel fairly safely and freely in most of the world. I have traveled worldwide and using common sense around security has made for some great adventures where lots of people may be too scared to go.

I do have a big spot light but having never been woken by a potential threatening individual on BLM lands before, I had not thought through a proper layered security plan that I could act on before now (my bad). I am now much better prepared than 3 days ago thanks to the many great suggestions from an awesome group. Things are foggy when you are abruptly woken up and thats not the time to make ‘the plan’ although it did disrupt my sleep for the rest of that night! Thank you and happy travels!

[ponti33602]

Originally Posted by kite_rider

Interesting thread and a topic that all of us that boondock think about while camping out in the middle of nowhere.

After countless nights boondocking all around the Pacific Northwest, the southwest, Texas, and Mexico; I've only had one situation with a late night lurker (in California). Keep in mind that I'm always travelling with expensive mountain bikes, surf boards, and sometimes a motorcycle. So I consider my setup to be an attractant to would be thieves.

Anyway, what I have and not seen mentioned much in these posts, is a really powerful flashlight. The idea being that you want to light up any suspicious character in your camp just like the police do when they approach a questionable situation. Even though I have too many guns laying around the house (I grew up in Idaho); I don't bring them along on camping trips. I'm too worried that I'll forget and accidentally bring one into Mexico or Canada and find myself in some really big trouble.

Now to really stir up controversy about guns, I'll lay out my bias. Old people should think twice about packing heat. Many are overly paranoid and probably not that good with a firearm in a tense situation anyway. When I was in college an exchange student I knew (from Japan) was shot and killed by some old folks in a tragic misunderstanding. He had the address wrong for a party he was trying to find and was banging on the backdoor of a house. His English wasn't good and the old folks living there got freaked out so they shot and killed him from the other side of the door.

We each have one of these we bought a few years back.....thinking more for hiking if lost and dark.....not sure these are considered "strong" but they pretty bright on the highest setting. Never thought that this is good defense potentially as well.

[rowiebowie]

Good idea about the flashlight. We have a 5" long <$20 very bright flashlight with on/strobe/off settings. The strobe can be momentarily disorienting and can be useful in making someone look away.

Yes, I know the potential for someone sensitive to flashing light to seizure. But I'm talking only use when in a defensive situation. So that consideration should not be a concern.
.

[InterBlog]

This might offend the no-firearms advocates, but there's something else that you could put to defensive use along the lines of a flashlight:

A crimson laser out your van window. With or without a firearm attached to it - your choice.

Of course, all of the usual disclaimers apply! In most instances, if you train a hand-held laser on an aggressor standing outside your van, they will flee the area at something approaching the speed of light. But there might be that one idiot strung out on drugs who decides instead to take it as a personal challenge, because training a laser is a form of engagement, and if you choose to engage, you better have a plan for following through.

Most of the divergence in self-defense opinions in this thread reflect the differences in the life experiences of the posters.

I'm an industrial consultant. I've spent much of the past 27 years working in the type of deep urban areas that the average suburbanite can't even imagine, areas where they would never dream of setting foot. I work as an embedded contractor in facilities where manufacturing plant managers have said things to me such as, "I need to step out for a few minutes to meet with a supplier... by the way, the pistol is in the top right hand desk drawer if you need it." I never get asked if I know how to use a pistol. It is assumed. If I didn't know how to defend myself using one, then I wouldn't be working in those types of areas to start with, duh.

By this time, I could write a whole book on the urban crime that I've seen around me -- but not fallen victim to. I've seen some remarkable defensive creativity at work in those areas, too - necessity is the mother of invention. A couple of examples:

-- In the years before Texas concealed carry licensing came into law, some of my professional cohorts carried flare guns. Houston is on the upper Texas coast, lots of different watercraft, so carrying an emergency flare gun in a vehicle would not arouse suspicion among law enforcement. A flare gun can be a surprisingly good defensive option. Those flares burn at very high temperatures. If you can't shoot an aggressor with a handgun, some people would argue that lighting him up like a roman candle would be the next best thing.

-- Similarly, some of my cohorts would stash ear plugs in their car console, in their purse, in their offices, wherever. If an aggressor approached from a distance, the very first thing they'd do is stare him down - full intense eye contact - while calmly inserting those plugs into their ears. Anyone schooled in shooting understands what that action signifies, and that includes criminals - the aggressors always assumed that the ear plugs were a prelude to the drawing of a handgun. And so they would panic and flee at the sight of the earplugs alone. One of my clients saved his own life using exactly that ruse. A gang was trying to corner him, and he bluffed them off using just his ear plugs. It was utterly brilliant.

YMMV. Especially if you restrict yourself to suburbia.

[RossWilliams]

"I've spent much of the past 27 years working in the type of deep urban areas that the average suburbanite can't even imagine"

I have spent most of my life living in those neighborhoods and even worked for a local crime prevention agency there. This is sounds like mostly the product of an overactive imagination. As my father would say "You have been watching too much television."

The reality is that armed thugs bent on inflicting violence are not necessarily going to run away because you show them you have a gun, much less put in earplugs. Not if they came prepared to use theirs. So before you light them up with a laser, you might want to make sure you have some effective cover if they decide to start shooting.

Perhaps more to the point. Most crimes are crimes of opportunity and the criminals are looking for an easy victim. They aren't going to force their way into an occupied RV. Your safest bet is probably to just get in the drivers seat and drive off if you think it isn't safe.

[Glamper]

that is bad...condolences....

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

This might offend the no-firearms advocates...

To steal a phrase from the young folks out there...

This 'We gotta get them before they get us talk' is becoming a buzzkill.

Can someone introduce some statistical balance to this conversation so we can go back to traveling, camping, and boondocking with an open heart and joyful spirit?

The O/P cited a story of someone lurking around a Class B and being somewhat concerned. I believe the facts will show for every person with ill-intent the numbers out there who are good samaritans outweigh the bad.

Hope everyone has a safe and pleasant 2019

[Glamper]

wow sad story, horrible. Not just old folks can make that mistake.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

"I've spent much of the past 27 years working in the type of deep urban areas that the average suburbanite can't even imagine"

I have spent most of my life living in those neighborhoods and even worked for a local crime prevention agency there. This is sounds like mostly the product of an overactive imagination.....

You lived and worked where? Minnesota?! Where the largest city has less than half a million residents and which is geographically removed from the criminal elements that infest their way north from Central America? Or are you talking about somewhere else? Do you have specialized knowledge about my area? If so, please share.

Or let me do it, by the numbers. The greater Houston area has, conservatively estimated, 20,000 gang members distributed among 30 different documented criminal gangs. Texas now boasts over three hundred thousand (!!) human trafficking victims, with Houston being the epicenter of that activity. There are currently about 60,000 missing persons in the state of Texas. I can't give you a link to that final figure because it was told to me directly a few weeks ago by the CEO of a nonprofit victim's advocacy group.

If there is an issue of imagination here, it's the failure of the average person to imagine what actually goes on in neighborhoods other than their own. Out of sight, out of mind. People generally don't want to think about it because they can't handle the reality of it. I understand that, but I don't want to be part of that mindset. Numbers are numbers - they are facts - and there they are.

And of course, the overwhelming majority of this stuff will never impact Class B owners directly. But to travel around pretending that none of it exists is to flirt with potentially bad outcomes. I do a lot of short trips around the upper Texas coast, almost all of them via boondocking. Smart people understand and respect their surroundings.

[Glamper]

Going off topic a tad?

[RossWilliams]

I have been camping on forest service and BLM land for many years and never had a problem. I have also never been attacked by a bear and bear attacks are extremely rare, but I still get nervous in my tent when I hear something (probably a squirrel) rummaging around in the night. It has never occurred to me to carry a gun to protect myself from said squirrel. Unfortunately, our overactive imaginations can sometimes lead to tragedy.

[avanti]

Joe Biden had the right idea:
If you insist on believing you need a gun in your RV, then carry a shotgun. Far safer and more effective than a handgun for all but professionals. You could even display it proudly as a deterrent.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Joe Biden had the right idea:
If you insist on believing you need a gun in your RV, then carry a shotgun. You could even display it proudly as a deterrent.

A number of police I have talked to said the same thing with their claim being that it is about the only way you are sure to hit anything when just awake, in the dark, and scared $hitless.