Security while Boondocking

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Which it is why it is especially important to articulate the bases of those perceptions.

It is easy to overlook the fact that boondocking experience is not the same across the board. Just for openers, the technical capacity of different vans - there are profound differences in those configurations. My van can (and does) stay off-grid indefinitely, and in some really wild places. The next poster might do an occasional overnight in Wallyworld and call it "boondocking". These experiential bases are fundamentally different and so will be the perceptions associated with each.

And the difficulty is that it's not possible to assemble rigorous comparable statistics. It's not possible to assemble [subsets of all boondockers whose systems look like -this- and who have spent -this- many weeks boondocking in -these- kinds of locations in -these- portions of North America].

If we COULD do something like that ^^, divide up the community into comparable sub-sets of experience, I bet we would see opinions converging in a helluva hurry.

But given that it's not feasible, I recommend that boondockers of lesser experience at least contemplate the conveyed observations of those with more extreme situational experience. YMMV, but if you start traversing different realms, your mileage will actually grow to resemble those who already occupy those realms.

I agree and don’t see any contradictions to what I posted. My perception of risk and my actions to deal with risks are based on my travel patterns and on my experiences and I wouldn’t suggest anyone do exactly what I do without thinking through whether or not they match my profile. We spend a couple months visiting our daughter in Sarasota in the winter and stay in an RV park with very low risk on anything except the tree branch that fell on our Jeep during a storm. Low crime and outside hurricane season for that time. Then we travel the rest of the year full time usually going back and forth to Alaska and do spend some nights lotdocking at Walmart, Cracker Barrel, Cabelas, etc but almost always in small towns or other locations with low crime risks. Travel in upper BC, the Yukon, NWT, and Alaska doesn’t really have much risk of crime except in Anchorage AK. Vehicle accidents, wilderness activity accidents, etc. are probably the greatest risk to bodily harm and we focus on those areas for risks...

[skagitstan]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

There's a lot in your comment, but let me focus on just this one assumption.

I do not believe this is true. Time and time again, I've seen it not be true, and in a variety of independent contexts.

The reason is simple - the farther you are from civilization, the lower the chances of law enforcement being available to help you. There are fewer POTENTIAL victims in remote areas - yes. But the chances of a criminal GETTING AWAY with robbing those fewer people is much, much higher. THAT is what makes it so attractive.

Let me say it another way.

The days of "rich urban" vs. "poor rural" are behind us. By this time in our social evolution, pretty much everyone is carrying cash, credit cards, laptop computers and iPads, $1,000 iPhones, cameras, GoPros, drones, firearms, etc. This is true whether individuals are located in dense urban areas where law enforcement permeation is high, or rural areas where there is no hope of bringing a law enforcement officer to the scene.

That individual resource equivalency being the case, WHICH becomes the more attractive and safer option for criminals? Robbing someone who is close to law enforcement, or robbing someone who is far less protected?

Duh.

The example I gave in the thread above was of my off-grid property in Canada. It is 25 slow miles from what could be described as "civilization". And it has been targeted over, and over, and over again - all 3 of us local owners employ multiple security measures as a result.

Same thing here in Texas. Do you have a 4-wheel Class B and are you in the mood to take your very life into your hands?? Then my suggestion is that you go out to the middle of nowhere on the central Texas coast. Go visit the long undeveloped portions of Matagorda Island. Rather than finding security and isolation out there, what you'll find is an astonishing number of drug cookers, traffickers, and drug users. A lot of illegal beach landings of watercraft, too. It is grand central station for crime -- specifically because those people know that law enforcement does not patrol out there.

Been there, done that, had my mind utterly blown. It was like walking onto the surface of an alien planet.

Same thing with Angelina National Forest in east Texas. The workampers have told me stories about how remote and unattended forest service areas were literally on the verge of being lost forever, taken over and ruined by criminals. They were cooking drugs in the toilets, for God's sake. Only after the establishment of the workamper program could that element be driven back out.

Same thing with our coastal National Wildlife Refuges in Texas. A year or so ago, I attempted to secure "off-label" permission to boondock in one of them. I pitched my proposal to the people in charge - sometimes if they get to know you, exceptions to rules can be made. I was told, "Absolutely no way. Of course we would trust you personally, but it's just too dangerous for us to allow. The very worst people in society congregate down there specifically because they know that it is so hard for us to reach them. So we have no choice but to lock it down at sunset and keep everyone out."

A few observations:

1. Your off grid property is NOT the same as boondocking in a class B. I don't think it's an applicable example.
First, it is a fixed, known location, with several adjacent properties, making it possibly worth a thief spending time surveilling. A boondocking class B has an unpredictable location.
2. Don't know much about Texas, but up around here (PNW) an attempt to call for help at a trailhead or campground will be just about as bad as at places with less traffic. No cell, very possibly no other visitors. And equally slow response once you did get through. But again, a known fixed location to stalk.

3. I would of course avoid hotspots for dopers and places that have been trashed as campsites. It's not hard to recognize the signs, and the popularity of those spots. But damn, sounds like Texas is a mess. Good thing for us that we don't like hot weather, eh?


In short, I just don't see real boondocking (not wallyworld style) as a big risk. Safer by far than if I had to live in a city.

I'm more concerned by the chance an evil squirrel tries to break into Annie the Van than a methhead. Be aware of your surroundings, carry if you wish, or not...unlikely to be a real issue, carry bear spray...you know, for bears, let your dog make friends with folks, and enjoy your trip.

[Bud]

Hi skagitstan,

You have one of the most wonderful attack dogs I've ever seen! I would feel very secure. Heck, I would want a Bear Spray to protect my attack dog.

Bud

[Alec]

Originally Posted by rboegh

A Winchester Jr. 20 Gauge Pump Shot Gun ($250-275) is a great tool in the wild. Once you chamber one, and they see or hear the loading action, you wont have to use it. Also, being a Jr. it is handy to put anywhere in the RV as it is 3/4 size.

Even better, check out the Ruger PC Carbine: 35 inches long, semi-auto, 9mm with a variety of mags available. And no pistol grip to get anti's undies in a bunch.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Alec

Even better, check out the Ruger PC Carbine: 35 inches long, semi-auto, 9mm with a variety of mags available. And no pistol grip to get anti's undies in a bunch.

Alec, nice but I'm all IN with an attack dog like skagitstan's.

Alec, do you play with your ruger? Hey, it's ok if you do. Still, I would choose an skagitstan attack dog vs your ruger.

Bud

[skagitstan]

Originally Posted by Bud

Alec, nice but I'm all IN with an attack dog like skagitstan's.

Alec, do you play with your ruger? Hey, it's ok if you do. Still, I would choose an skagitstan attack dog vs your ruger.

Bud

Thanks Bud.
That's Kya. Sadly, we had to put her down in December. Cancer at just over 10yo. At least we have a ton of pictures to remember her.



But our next trip will have our new "attack" malamute, Tana. She's a 2.5yo rescue, still learning and settling in. We wouldn't dare let her off leash in the boonies.




She's only been on one ride in Annie so far, from the shelter in Spokane to our home in Skagit county, but she did really well...considering she was riding for 6 hours with total strangers, to who knows where.


I expect we'll all have a great time when we head out this spring.


Folks think Mals are scary, but they are the worst guard dogs ever. If a thief broke in, she would point out where the TV is, where the safe is, and just say "what's mine is yours".

[Alec]

Hah! Well, having grown up on a 4,000 acre sheep ranch, I don't remember not carrying my Ruger Single-Six; probably ten or twelve years old, but I never really thought of it as something to play with. We ran 800 head of sheep, or as we call them, coyote feed, and I remember having to dispatch a wounded ewe a few times, and of course an occasional rattlebug. The sheep are long gone; now it's Black Angus. The old single-six lays in the drawer, replaced with the 357's. S&W m27 with scope for the wild pigs, and the Ruger with CTC for other varmints.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by skagitstan

Thanks Bud.
That's Kya. Sadly, we had to put her down in December. Cancer at just over 10yo. At least we have a ton of pictures to remember her.



But our next trip will have our new "attack" malamute, Tana. She's a 2.5yo rescue, still learning and settling in. We wouldn't dare let her off leash in the boonies.




She's only been on one ride in Annie so far, from the shelter in Spokane to our home in Skagit county, but she did really well...considering she was riding for 6 hours with total strangers, to who knows where.


I expect we'll all have a great time when we head out this spring.


Folks think Mals are scary, but they are the worst guard dogs ever. If a thief broke in, she would point out where the TV is, where the safe is, and just say "what's mine is yours".

Several lucky animals in those pic's.

Thanks for sharing.

Bud

[ClassB4Me]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPW7HOgqw-s&t=457s

[ManWonder]

Originally Posted by ks@yvr

We boondock 90% of the time and although I don’t classify us as full time we have spent 6 months on the road in the last 12 months, so we are really heavy duty boondockers (frugal campers). Would like to hear others thoughts.

reminds me of the time this crazy cousin of mine thought it'd be fun to spook his brother while they were out camping in a remote location - when he got back from his escapade he was mighty surprised to find his brother had canceled his trip - bottom line: this idiot harassed the wrong camper!

anyways, the point is you just never know - i agree we need to do what we have to do in order to protect ourselves but things may not always be as they appear

[ClassB4Me]

As Times Get Rougher In Kitchener Ontario....



https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/video?c...ylistPageNum=1

[MsNomer]

Interblog, I really appreciate your perspective on East Texas. I'm considering it for next year's trip south and will pass my proposed itinerary by you. This year, instead of boondocking as I have in the past, I’m staying in Lafayette's city park. The attendant has educated me on the issues they’ve had with dopers.

[InterBlog]

I'm digging through my photo archive trying to find pics of van security locks for that other poster on that other thread.

If you are like me, you have about 100,000 "interesting" photos that show "something" you wish to remember for future use. Aaaaand then you never can find that exact thing later when the time comes, because you have SO MANY photos and screengrabs of interesting stuff. Yeah.

Anyway, during this dig, I came across this example below. If you ever have your van stolen in whole or in part, in addition to contacting law enforcement, you might want to GET ON INSTAGRAM. If you don't use IG, contact a vanner who does, and ask them to post an alert on your behalf.

I've lost count of how many "STOLEN" and "FOUND" pairs I've seen over the last few years. Vans, trailers, you name it. An enormous number of people watch the #vanlife, #sprintervanlife, etc. hashtags. A photo tile with "STOLEN" in big white letters is going to get a lot of traffic.

Note the comment in the image. "Someone saw our internet posts." Yup. This van was recovered in 5 hours because of that.

[InterBlog]

Another anecdote on the topic of "remoteness".

I mentioned that I'm an industrial consultant. I had a meeting yesterday with a client whose property I adore - 900 acres in southeast Texas, 99% of which is undeveloped and set aside for future use. That kind of a tract is *extremely* rare in our area.

Right now he's using a converted intermodal container as a field office. These little conversions can be had for about $5,000 each in our area. They have the basics required to sustain human life - a couple of windows, one door, plywood interior, electrical wiring, one or two ceiling lights, a tiny air conditioner (no bathrooms - port-a-cans are typically rented for that purpose). They are very popular around here in part because they can be disconnected, picked up, and trucked out of harm's way if flooding is forecast. Do they meet occupancy codes? Of course not.

I noticed yesterday that part of the unit's door frame was missing. "Another break-in?" I asked. "Yes, of course," was the reply.

Why? Because despite being occupied daily by a staff of workers, the site is remote. Despite multiple layers of site security which I won't mention here, it gets hit so often that you can almost set your watch by it. And these container boxes contain nothing more than junked office furniture, a dinosaur desktop computer, and a bunch of hard hats and raincoats. It doesn't matter. The criminals will steal every last pencil because that's what they do.

If a $5,000 shipping container constitutes an irresistible target, how do you suppose a $50,000 - $150,000 van would be viewed by criminals in the same general area?

These crimes are under-perceived in part because they are under-reported. Home and office invasions only make the 6 o'clock news if there are mass casualties associated with them.

I would dearly like to ask that client for permission to boondock on his 900-acre property. But the risks are too high. Professionally I can't do it. If I were ever forced to defend myself by shooting an invader on his property, legally that gets very messy very fast - it's a nightmare scenario. Even if I want to hold him harmless, there are issues of subrogation and civil liability. We can't go there.

Here's the high-target remote asset in question. That ancient window a/c unit hanging off the back must be worth an entire twenty bucks on the street:

[Reed]

We have boondocked extensively on border in NM and AZ and overnight on way down to Yucatan and return. Have had no problems. The further from towns the safer.

However, still have Crimson Trace .equipped 357 and Marlin in .357. Commonality is good.

Reed

[DUTCH in Atlanta]

Originally Posted by Reed

We have boondocked extensively on border in NM and AZ and overnight on way down to Yucatan and return. Have had no problems. The further from towns the safer.

However, still have Crimson Trace .equipped 357 and Marlin in .357. Commonality is good.

Reed

And you have no problems bringing your weapons into Mexico?

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by DUTCH in Atlanta

And you have no problems bringing your weapons into Mexico?

Entering Mexico with a firearm, or even a single round of ammunition, carries a penalty of up to five years in prison, even if the firearm or ammunition is taken into the country unintentionally.


Some questions should not be answered

We travel to Mexico but would never think of carrying a force multiplier weapon across the border. When you are not a citizen your rights and treatment differ greatly.

There are smarter options

[Reed]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Entering Mexico with a firearm, or even a single round of ammunition, carries a penalty of up to five years in prison, even if the firearm or ammunition is taken into the country unintentionally.


Some questions should not be answered

We travel to Mexico but would never think of carrying a force multiplier weapon across the border. When you are not a citizen your rights and treatment differ greatly.

There are smarter options

Absolutely correct. Firearms are US only. An empty cartridge case can be jail time. Be sure to “sweep ship” before going to Mexico. This is first year in 9 that we have not driven to Yucatan (or flown elsewhere in Latin America) since Elaine is having a shoulder rereplacement. We feel as safe or safer traveling in Mexico as in US. The same is true in traveling in Canada.

Reed

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Reed

Absolutely correct. Firearms are US only. An empty cartridge case can be jail time. Be sure to “sweep ship” before going to Mexico. This is first year in 9 that we have not driven to Yucatan (or flown elsewhere in Latin America) since Elaine is having a shoulder rereplacement. We feel as safe or safer traveling in Mexico as in US. The same is true in traveling in Canada.

Reed

I have seen situations / heard stories of one contraband item being found resulted in the entire vehicle being searched with armed agents standing by. Those tend to be the moments you don't argue if one or more of your possessions gets spirited out of your vehicle (be glad you were able to drive away).

[rowiebowie]

There's an old joke that can be amended to rv's that goes something like this:

An old man crossed the border daily into Mexico driving a motor home.

After a while, border agents became suspicious and started to thoroughly search his rv's. Despite the daily searching, they were never able to find anything illegal inside.

Months went by, and results were the same.

Then one day, he was arrested. For smuggling motor homes. (rimshot)

.