RVX Salt Lake City Utah - Page 3

tooTallforB? · 03-13-2019, 04:51 PM

The big difference between the European market and the US/North American market beside less sophisticated onboard systems (mainly no real need for A/C and thus smaller battery banks in most of Europe) is that over in Europe almost every country has 4-5+ weeks of vacation, for a young family having a RV is a good way to visit Europe without exploding hotel/restaurants costs while seeing a lot of diverse areas without having to drive for days. Because of that I think it creates a market for cheaper RV (and volume helps).

Here in North America, most younger folks have a couple weeks vacation (if they can even take them) so it makes the market for RVs more reliant on more wealthy (read older) demographics. I think a lot of young families in the US are more prone to buy a truck (can be used during the work week) and a trailer than an RV, given that it won't be used more than once or twice a year.

mrshowtime3 · 03-13-2019, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

But, you are not going to pay $180,000 for a Boldt, with a typical discount it will be in the $140,000s. And not many Advanced RVs come in at the base price once you start getting what you really want.

But, to each his own...

Let me be very clear....Id never in my life pay even $140k for a vehicle. Im saying that your typical person of those means would have to not know about Advanced RV to pay that kind of money for a Winnebago. Ive seen plenty of them to know how subpar the build quality is. They say this Boldt will be a big step up and no more staple construction. We will see. But Winnebago is still in the business of pumping out as many units as they can as fast as possible. They are not craftsmen. They are about quantity over quality. Once you get into that kind of price range, it just seems nuts to buy from them.

ClassB4Me · 03-13-2019, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrshowtime3

Let me be very clear....Id never in my life pay even $140k for a vehicle. Im saying that your typical person of those means would have to not know about Advanced RV to pay that kind of money for a Winnebago. Ive seen plenty of them to know how subpar the build quality is. They say this Boldt will be a big step up and no more staple construction. We will see. But Winnebago is still in the business of pumping out as many units as they can as fast as possible. They are not craftsmen. They are about quantity over quality. Once you get into that kind of price range, it just seems nuts to buy from them.

Has there ever been a Class B manufacturer who offers a price / quality campervan similar to a Toyota Camry (automotive)?

Class B RVs have always been a luxury product and unfortunately $100K+ is the general starting point if you want a decent HVAC system and 4-season capability.

GeorgeRa · 03-13-2019, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooTallforB?

The big difference between the European market and the US/North American market beside less sophisticated onboard systems (mainly no real need for A/C and thus smaller battery banks in most of Europe) is that over in Europe almost every country has 4-5+ weeks of vacation, for a young family having a RV is a good way to visit Europe without exploding hotel/restaurants costs while seeing a lot of diverse areas without having to drive for days. Because of that I think it creates a market for cheaper RV (and volume helps).

Here in North America, most younger folks have a couple weeks vacation (if they can even take them) so it makes the market for RVs more reliant on more wealthy (read older) demographics. I think a lot of young families in the US are more prone to buy a truck (can be used during the work week) and a trailer than an RV, given that it won't be used more than once or twice a year.

I agree that folks in EU have vacation longer than in in NA, I had my dose of frustration dealing with Germans when our factory in Böblingen pretty much shut down in summer time. I had 6 weeks’ vacation in California since 1975, what happen.

The key difference between EU and NA is their economy of scale making their design more attractive at lower cost. Costs of well-staffed and expensive R&D, manufacturing tooling and automation are distributed throughout their product lines making their factories more efficient hence products have lower costs.

The previous video showed how proud was the fellow from Winnebago using CNC to cut their cabinet panels, wow, whoopty doo, and still heavy weight plywood.

In 1975 we extensively used CNC routers to cut printed circuit boards and I used CNC to cut practically all HDPE panels for cabinets for my DIY conversion, even for me it was more accurate and less expensive. This level of automation is common in NA building cars or in EU building campers.

I would be interesting to get a quote from ARV for a new “Suburban” SUV à la Chevy one, I would guess $20M.

ClassB4Me · 03-13-2019, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrshowtime3

Let me be very clear....Id never in my life pay even $140k for a vehicle. Im saying that your typical person of those means would have to not know about Advanced RV to pay that kind of money for a Winnebago. Ive seen plenty of them to know how subpar the build quality is. They say this Boldt will be a big step up and no more staple construction. We will see. But Winnebago is still in the business of pumping out as many units as they can as fast as possible. They are not craftsmen. They are about quantity over quality. Once you get into that kind of price range, it just seems nuts to buy from them.

Our first RV retailed for approximately $65K back in 2005. We thought it was good value for money. Is $170K a reasonable price in 2019? Not sure.

GeorgeRa · 03-13-2019, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Our first RV retailed for approximately $65K back in 2005. We thought it was good value for money. Is $170K a reasonable price in 2019? Not sure.

Add $20K for van's pollution control and van driving safety gadgets improvements and it is not even close. And, this Westfalia/Airstream is more usable for family, but it doesn't have hospital beds controlled by an iPhone.

Bud · 03-13-2019, 07:19 PM

Seems like an ARV would cost about twice that of the Boldt, round numbers.

Bud

ClassB4Me · 03-13-2019, 07:33 PM

Leisure Travel --- Reinvented

ClassB4Me · 03-13-2019, 07:57 PM

A lot of great innovations but still very traditional.

Takeaways...

-- The RV Geeks are getting a PBS show

-- The rear garage is huge on the Super Star

-- The Super C is 40ft long

-- King-side Bed

Seems like a great product for those who want the luxury of a Class A but the safety afforded by a Super C. Price - not disclosed.

markopolo · 03-13-2019, 08:24 PM

Thor is introducing a concept Class B at RVX

Thor Class B.jpg

https://www.rvbusiness.com/blog/tmc-...rvx-event.html

Quote:

Convenience features throughout the B-van include the seven-inch touchscreen dash radio that is Apple Carplay or Android Auto enabled. A Girard water heater/furnace combination allows faster heat times, and the 200-watt solar charging system provodes an additional energy source if boondocking. Winegard’s ConnecT 2.0 4G/Wi-Fi system also allows RVers to get off-the-grid while still maintaining web access.
The B van concept features a modern interior decor inspired by European designs while offering full windows to view the landscape and a Frolisleep cooling system and adjustable headrests. The new concept includes four seat belts throughout the coach.

cruisefx · 03-13-2019, 08:32 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7moc8R-zDw

Start at 5:30 to see it...looks like the Travato K

ponti33602 · 03-13-2019, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avanti

Can you say "slippery slope"?

Can you still get an ARV for $200K?

$250k and that isn't the one I would want...............that one is over $300K for all those features.

Davydd · 03-13-2019, 09:34 PM

I can't watch videos right now because the campground wifi at Monument Valley sucks big time and 3G cellular is not much better sandwiched between mesa walls. But I'm not impressed with the spec'd features of the Boldt. What is a Winegard’s ConnecT 2.0 4G/Wi-Fi system anyway? How do you get wifi or cellular anywhere when there is none?

As for ARV. You can get most anything you want and that is priceless. Yep, I've had electrically operated beds with head, pillow, and foot individual controls along with head and foot variable vibration (without the quarters) for over 4 years now and Winnebago and Coachman are boasting just a back lift now.

mrshowtime3 · 03-13-2019, 09:38 PM

O look another B with the same floorplan as every other B.

Why are these manufacturers so hesitant to do a rear fixed bed side to side? That is far and away the most popular setup for the younger crowd. Because its the only way to get that large garage that can fit bikes etc...

Or bunk beds for that matter. I remember reading one of the most popular floorplans in europe has rear bunk beds. Ive seen self builds with bunk beds on the side wall. I believe Davydd is doing this. Makes a lot of sense from a space saving perspective. The offset twins on the Boldt is the worst of the possible setups.

Davydd · 03-13-2019, 10:33 PM

In a short 144" WB Sprinter which I am basing my new design, a full bed in the back takes up 60% of available floor space from the B pillar to the back doors. That also includes twin beds and an attendant aisle. 30" wide bunk beds occupy 25% of the available space. You can see that opens up potentially more design freedom.

ARV has designed a 144 Sprinter with cross sleeping to save space which basically is 48" or 54" vs a minimum front to back 72" to 76" to save about 12 sq. ft. floor space. Cross sleeping more than likely needs flairs since the interior width is only 69" which is smaller that most people prefer.

Bunk beds are tricky when you design for 70+ year olds. Young people are much more flexible. That's why I am mocking them up in my shop. First I did it roughly at ARV with an impromptu mockup with the help of their cabinet shop and an empty van.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsD4UvfLVAA&t=2s

ClassB4Me · 03-13-2019, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davydd

Bunk beds are tricky when you design for 70+ year olds. Young people are much more flexible. That's why I am mocking them up in my shop. First I did it roughly at ARV with an impromptu mockup with the help of their cabinet shop and an empty van.

I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to buy a brand new RV (after owning several) and having to accept major design trade-offs. So many people buy RVs and quickly trade them because the functionality was not there for them in the long-run.

Your methodical build and mockups may be more expensive initially but if it results in an RV you will keep and use for a longer period, it many be cheaper in the long run.

Thanks for sharing.

Davydd · 03-13-2019, 11:36 PM

I've had three class Bs over 13 years and 200,000 miles. All were the best at the time but you develop peeves and wishes over time. The Pleasure was because I couldn't turn the driver's seat around and the bathroom wall even restricted driver seat travel. Fortunately I didn't need all that travel. The Great West Van was OK but wasn't state of the art any longer and I wanted more capability. I designed my first ARV and introduced the articulating beds. Now, we just want a short van to explore more cities that we tended to stay away from, subconsciously, even though we usually found parking. 24 foot is a tad too long now in my opinion. We have covered all the national parks, states and provinces more than once. Our current trip in the southwest leaves us wondering what we haven't covered. I'm an architect--the cities of course--doh!.

mumkin · 03-13-2019, 11:47 PM

The new Thor is using the Girard in their B? Everyone I know that has one hates them... so slow and waste so much water. When I ordered my latest, RT was just switching to the Girard in the Simplicity. I specifically asked for the Suburban - figuring that they must have a few left in inventory. Top line Truma is really the only way to go for instant hot water.

GeorgeRa · 03-14-2019, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mumkin

The new Thor is using the Girard in their B? Everyone I know that has one hates them... so slow and waste so much water. When I ordered my latest, RT was just switching to the Girard in the Simplicity. I specifically asked for the Suburban - figuring that they must have a few left in inventory. Top line Truma is really the only way to go for instant hot water.

My Isotemp marine water heater with Espar D5 hydronic furnace system is functionally as good as Truma for on demand water, perhaps with higher output of hot water at 5kW. Truma advantage is dual heating, water and air. If I would do conversion again I would try to get Truma/LPG if possible for DIY folks, but I am happy with mine. I agree that Girard is not the best solution for any B.

mrshowtime3 · 03-14-2019, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

My Isotemp marine water heater with Espar D5 hydronic furnace system is functionally as good as Truma for on demand water, perhaps with higher output of hot water at 5kW. Truma advantage is dual heating, water and air. If I would do conversion again I would try to get Truma/LPG if possible for DIY folks, but I am happy with mine. I agree that Girard is not the best solution for any B.

The Isotemps are the best hot water option IMO. I dont see them on many commercial rigs it seems. Do any current B's use them? The engine coolant lines heat the water as you drive. If boondocking the heating element is only 750w and the thing stores hot water for at least 12 hours. You see them on self builds often.

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