RoadTrek's EcoTrek

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Yes it certainly could be done by shunting from the common ground and actually there is shunt shifting technology that would permit installing the shunt on the plus side if that was more accessible. You would have accurate hands off voltage and amperage information displayed. The complication is that an accurate SOC reading depends upon setting your total ah capacity during meter setup. With a Roadtrek, if your battery profile was always the same, the SOC reading would be accurate. But each time you take some of the batteries off line or put batteries on line (which for better or worse is recommended by Roadrtrek) you would have to reset the ah capacity to maintain a coherent SOC reading which is certainly doable, but Murphy's law will guarantee the potential for a lot of confusion.

IMO, Roadtrek's failure to include the provision of coherent SOC metering is a serious shortcoming and as far as I know, there is no cost effective aftermarket bandage to fix it.

You also have the issue that most of the meters look at amps to or from the batteries to check for full, so depending on how many modules were on, they may or may not reset (100% calibration point) the meter. This doesn't mean it couldn't be done if they wanted to. IMO, they don't want anyone to see how inefficient they are, parasitic wise, or how little run time the can actually provide. Of course Roadtrek has never had anything resembling an accurate battery meter, except the short lived Coachnet setup that didn't work.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

There is no real integration of the three charging sources and the Ecotrek battery modules and the AGM battery, everything operates independently. You can get a remote display for the solar controller which allows you to monitor operation but you are discouraged from changing the configuration of the solar controller.

Perhaps it depends on how "integration" is defined. If the three independent charging independently have the same charging profiles I have no problem characterizing them as integrated or at least coordinated. What concerns me more is whether they actually are integrated or coordinated. No owner manual is supplied. It's a Tracer MPPT controller built by EPSOLAR in Belijing. The manual I downloaded shows default settings for flooded cell, sealed and Gel. There is no mention of a default setting for Lithium. The boost and float voltages can be manually inputted but there is no indication of whether float voltage can be suspended which you would want for lithium applications.

There is no CONUS technical or customer support number for the OEM. You have to call China. Since my Chinese hasn't advanced beyond Gung Hey Fat Choi, I'm not inclined to do that. So far I haven't found a domestic supplier that can provide some clarification on the charging profiles.

I'm familiar with that remote. The anecdotal reports on it are not consistent. Some claim it the best thing since sliced toast; others consider it inaccurate, difficult to use and of little overall value. Roadtrek's decision to not provide the remote was IMO arguably a wise one considering the penchant some folks have to diddle with equipment settings without any understanding of the expensive consequences and in the case of lithiums which could result in irreversible damage that would ruin your whole financial day.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Yes. It's really off-topic for my group. I told you to read all my posts on it on the blog.

My 600AH Lithionics battery ships on Wednesday. It will replace the 4 125AH Stark batteries I have in it now.

i did read you blog. however i could not find out why?

[booster]

I haven't been keeping up on all this stuff, but I thought you were a happy Stark user in the Travato. Why not in the Alegro?

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

i did read you blog. however i could not find out why?

I'm going to California for 2 years for some projects I've got lined up. It's too far to travel back home to SC very often.

So while I'm out there, I need a place to live, but also want to do some weekend and vacation trips. This motorhome kills two birds with one stone.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Yes. It's really off-topic for my group. I told you to read all my posts on it on the blog.

My 600AH Lithionics battery ships on Wednesday. It will replace the 4 125AH Stark batteries I have in it now.

Why wincrasher?

Thanks.

Bud

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by booster

I haven't been keeping up on all this stuff, but I thought you were a happy Stark user in the Travato. Why not in the Alegro?

I am.

I have these 4 Stark Batteries in the RV right now. They are going into my Tug as house batteries when my "big" lithionics battery shows up.

I do have some space constraints in the Tiffin. I wanted the biggest battery I could fit in the space I have, yet I wanted a simple wiring setup and a central BMS. The Lithionics is not really any more expensive than the Starks of the same capacity, yet I get the simplification/integration and a better BMS. Plus a significant warranty. It also didn't hurt that I got a killer deal on it - much less than the published prices you see.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

I'm going to California for 2 years for some projects I've got lined up. It's too far to travel back home to SC very often.

So while I'm out there, I need a place to live, but also want to do some weekend and vacation trips. This motorhome kills two birds with one stone.

What a life. When you die you won't say you were bored-assuming you do die someday.-lol

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

What a life. When you die you won't say you were bored-assuming you do die someday.-lol

LOL. I plan on living forever.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

LOL. I plan on living forever.

I need to contact whoever sold you this generous unlimited warranty.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Bud

Why wincrasher?

Thanks.

Bud

Wincrasher's Facebook group is about Class B RVs. Anything else would essentially breaking the group rules. Wincrasher's group pretty much came about because another so called Class B group fast went off kilter with Class C discussions and some called out the admin about that and got booted.

Booting is a popular pastime on Facebook.

Come on to my Facebook group and post a cheeseburger and I would boot you.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

You also have the issue that most of the meters look at amps to or from the batteries to check for full, so depending on how many modules were on, they may or may not reset (100% calibration point) the meter. This doesn't mean it couldn't be done if they wanted to. IMO, they don't want anyone to see how inefficient they are, parasitic wise, or how little run time the can actually provide. Of course Roadtrek has never had anything resembling an accurate battery meter, except the short lived Coachnet setup that didn't work.

Greg suggested contacting Dan Neeley, a very qualified independent RT technician and in response to my query regarding this Dan responded:

"As for the question, I installed a Trimetric on an RT with 4 AGM batteries. This required a significant amount of labor and a lot of large cable to accomplish. Basically, removing discrete grounds and going to one common ground. You may want to also consider using perhaps multiple separate Trimetrics for electrical different battery banks."

What surprised me was that the same metering SOC problem is not exclusive to lithium equipped coaches. It also exists for AGMs which are hard wired in parallel electrically but still employing discrete grounds which must be rewired for a common ground to permit a correct meter SOC. But unlike the lithium set up it never requires recalibrating the meter since there is no option to take individual batteries on or off line.

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Greg suggested contacting Dan Neeley, a very qualified independent RT technician and in response to my query regarding this Dan responded:

"As for the question, I installed a Trimetric on an RT with 4 AGM batteries. This required a significant amount of labor and a lot of large cable to accomplish. Basically, removing discrete grounds and going to one common ground. You may want to also consider using perhaps multiple separate Trimetrics for electrical different battery banks."

What surprised me was that the same metering SOC problem is not exclusive to lithium equipped coaches. It also exists for AGMs which are hard wired in parallel electrically but still employing discrete grounds which must be rewired for a common ground to permit a correct meter SOC. But unlike the lithium set up it never requires recalibrating the meter since there is no option to take individual batteries on or off line.

Not really that surprising if you look at the older Roadtreks for history, I think. Our 07 C190P had two batteries and two separate grounds, so basically the same issue. It all depends on how spread out they are. I think the Chevies would now have them in 3 locations for the 190s, don't know about the 210s. The Sprinters would likely have two under the hood and two in the back for 4 batteries, so would take big time wiring, I think. We have discussed mulitple meters quite often on the forum since Roadtrek came out with the big, unmonitored systems.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

Not really that surprising if you look at the older Roadtreks for history, I think. Our 07 C190P had two batteries and two separate grounds, so basically the same issue. It all depends on how spread out they are. I think the Chevies would now have them in 3 locations for the 190s, don't know about the 210s. The Sprinters would likely have two under the hood and two in the back for 4 batteries, so would take big time wiring, I think. We have discussed mulitple meters quite often on the forum since Roadtrek came out with the big, unmonitored systems.

On the current Chevy 210 800ECO we could only find three batteries nestled in where the Onan used to reside. With regard to the fourth one, we were prepared to complain to the DA until we finally spotted it way up forward under the driver seat. I wonder where they plant all the Warp Core 1600ah batteries.

[dknightd]

I emailed RT and asked

"Is there any hope/plans to reduce the 60W continuous draw when batteries are on? "

they replied

"Yes, we are continuing to look for ways to reduce the draw, but there is no time line on when anything new/approved will be introduced."

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by dknightd

I emailed RT and asked

"Is there any hope/plans to reduce the 60W continuous draw when batteries are on? "

they replied

"Yes, we are continuing to look for ways to reduce the draw, but there is no time line on when anything new/approved will be introduced."

so much for improvements-lol

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

Not really that surprising if you look at the older Roadtreks for history, I think. Our 07 C190P had two batteries and two separate grounds, so basically the same issue. It all depends on how spread out they are. I think the Chevies would now have them in 3 locations for the 190s, don't know about the 210s. The Sprinters would likely have two under the hood and two in the back for 4 batteries, so would take big time wiring, I think. We have discussed mulitple meters quite often on the forum since Roadtrek came out with the big, unmonitored systems.

It seems like multiple batteries on a class B pretty much guarantees that they will be spread out. The Smartgauge analysis for providing optimum battery balancing seems to require both battery proximity and cable symmetry. With some batteries having cables several feet long, how is this practically accomplished?

SmartGauge Electronics - Interconnecting multiple batteries to form one larger bank

[Davydd]

Spread out? It seems one judges what one company has problems with. My 800ah of lithium ion batteries are in one discreet insulated box with one BMS.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Spread out? It seems one judges what one company has problems with. My 800ah of lithium ion batteries are in one discreet insulated box with one BMS.

How much again did your van cost? lol

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Spread out? It seems one judges what one company has problems with. My 800ah of lithium ion batteries are in one discreet insulated box with one BMS.

Now that's a classy installation

Is the outside container metal or plastic?

Do you know if ARV employs the battery cable balancing arrangement described by Smartgauge?