RoadTrek's EcoTrek

[avanti]

Originally Posted by BobB

Do RV warranties - like RT's 5 year, unlimited mileage - typically cover items like the batteries and energy management system?

Typically, all "purchased" items, such as appliances, A/C, inverter, etc, are covered under the manufacturer's warranty. Only stuff the upfitter did is covered by their warranty. I assume batteries are in the former category.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Don't mean to change the topic (which is very very interesting), but someone mentioned that Roadtrek is no longer number one in B's? I hadn't read anything about that... so who is number one then? Just curious...

The year is far from over - Winnebago is in the number 1 spot. That type of info is tracked and discussed in the Industry News section of this forum: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9

[eurovanman]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Nothing new here that I don't already have in my Advanced RV. I'm curious about the details of their system and how it compares.

There is something new here. You can get this power system on a van for under $100k

[Arlo]

Regarding warranty, looks like RT is applying the 6-year E-Trek warranty to the new E-Treknology packages. If so, the warranty includes the batteries and all other electrical components. I don't recall Jim H. mentioning that on FB - but it seems like a great marketing strategy.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

Just out of curiosity, how do these "remote start with no key" systems work? Do they put a key chip near the sensor or is there some OEM-sanctioned way to do it?

This is what Advanced RV has been using. It appears it can work on most vehicles.

http://www.compustar.com

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by BobB

Like the 20+% discount from MSRP.

Interesting that Roadtrek doc says 5 year limited warranty and within the solar paragraph, it says 6 year limited motorhome warranty.

?? Wonder what the limited portion is for and is the 6 year for only the solar/battery portion??

Time to read the fine print.

full e-trek packages get additional warranty

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by eurovanman

There is something new here. You can get this power system on a van for under $100k

actually i think not-only the 210 and up can get large lithium packs.

the largest i can get on the zion is 400 amps. the lithium batteries have more useable powr but it's still 400 amp hours

[Jostalli]

Very happy this is now an option. For those who think this is some new advanced "drop in" technology I think you'd be mistaken. It will be an assembled pack with a BMS like the OrionJr (or House Power BMS if they go cheap). They may add a voltage regulator like a Balmar to the alternator. They will have to reprogram any inverter or solar charge controller to a LiFePO4 profile.

[Belzar]

Davydd - For comparison purposes, what did ARV charge to upgrade to lithiums with automatic controls etc.?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Belzar

Davydd - For comparison purposes, what did ARV charge to upgrade to lithiums with automatic controls etc.?

There was no upgrade only a choice of 400ah, 600ah and 800ah. The lithium ion package along with the second alternator was standard with them. So I had no breakdown other than when i changed my order from 600ah to 800ah there was a $2,132 add. That is a rough idea of the cost of 200ah of lithium ion batteries. The batteries I have are listed on the Elite Power Solutions website the last time i looked at $5,940 for 800ah or 16 200ah 3.2 volt batteries. These batteries and I am sure what Roadtrek is providing are not so called drop in batteries like the Smart Battery.

BTW, there is no secret what Advanced RV does. They put out a video TheFitRV on their battery system right here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhTC7ukK-o

What you see is the 800ah battery pack like mine. I have already extensively covered it in my Advancing Alvar thread here.

[obgraham]

I hope this development is a harbinger of a trend in B rigs.

However, I do recall that when I was first exploring B's, about 2.5 years ago, RT was offering a "fuel cell" option, and also a "Li-ion battery" option. Neither sold, and they were quietly dropped from the options list.

Time will tell if enough folks will shell out for this capacity to make it viable for a mass builder like RT, as opposed to custom builders like AR.

[avanti]

I suspect that they don't much care if this turns out to be a mediocre seller. It is an investment in the future. In a few years this stuff will be far more affordable, and the experience they gained in selling economically-marginal products will give them a jump on the competition when the time comes.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by obgraham

I hope this development is a harbinger of a trend in B rigs.

However, I do recall that when I was first exploring B's, about 2.5 years ago, RT was offering a "fuel cell" option, and also a "Li-ion battery" option. Neither sold, and they were quietly dropped from the options list.

Time will tell if enough folks will shell out for this capacity to make it viable for a mass builder like RT, as opposed to custom builders like AR.

Roadtrek is making their own battery packs

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

This is what Advanced RV has been using. It appears it can work on most vehicles.

http://www.compustar.com

Davydd-where does it show info for autostarting when house battery low-thanks

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Davydd-where does it show info for autostarting when house battery low-thanks

The Compustar module is just part of the equation along with MB high idle and second alternator bracket, a custom second alternator, the inverter/charger and Silverleaf control interface. Advanced RV's system is programmable. I have mine set so that when batteries drop down to 25% the engine will autostart and run for a programmed hour and 45 minutes. That is being rather conservative as I see Roadtrek is stating 10% left to depletion. If you have been reading my Advancing Alvar you will know I don't anticipate needing autostart or even to idle my batteries to charge. That brings up another question. There was no mention of the high idle option. MB has one but Hammill did not mention it. Does the Chevy or Promaster have one?

ARV's programming is done through the Silverleaf interface. How? That's above my technical knowledge pay grade. I can also start my engine keyless and manually with the Silverleaf touchscreen, through the DroneMobile app on my iPhone via wi-fi, with the Drone key fob within range and Mercedes Benz standard key fob within range. All can also manually shut the engine off. Keyless starting all activate high idle for faster charging.

Will Roadtrek give out any details of how things work or are they going with their proprietary routine again? This stuff is pretty complex and I would hope they don't simplify it with idiot lights but they've made no mention yet how you will know you are close to 10% battery capacity or automatic autostart. How do you know you are charging at 300 amps? Advanced RV made that 300 amp claim as well and it is theoretical but again if you read my Advancing Alvar I was giving some real life results.

In other threads we have had a lot of discussion about cold temperature charging control, high temperature management, total discharge prevention and over charge prevention. None of this is cheap to do. We all know many people have destroyed lead-acid batteries in a short time and sometimes overnight and no big loss just aggravation for a $200 battery. You cannot afford not to have these safeguards with lithium ion.

BTW, to your other comment, making your own battery packs does not mean Roadtrek makes the batteries. They are probably buying Chinese (like everyone else) 3.2V batteries and assembling them x 4 to make one 12V battery most like a 200ah battery and then building packs for the various offerings in 200ah steps. Do they give you individual cell temperature and voltage monitoring? Do they automatically equalize? How do they control charging? Lots of questions.

And to Eurovanman, there will be no under $100,000 Roadtreks with EcoTrek of any package size. Again, if you have read my experience I would not recommend doing this with anything less than a 400ah battery pack. With the add on prices they've quoted I would hope they have answers to my questions for any purchaser. The retrofitting claim seems questionable. There is a lot of "under the hood" stuff I would think would need to happen and the cost may prove to be prohibitive.

[tbirdman]

Originally Posted by eurovanman

I would imagine this is a direct response to losing #1 in the Class B Marketplace- Maybe pushed it out sooner then planned, hopefully all the kinks are worked out. It sounds exiting, if only the RT interiors could be more modern like the Travato. That kind of power system on the "EcoTrek" could allow me to sacrifice on the interior design and quality.

I am leaning towards a Travato 59K as I like the interior much better than the Zion. Although this now adds some food for thought as I did like the engine generator and now this new wrinkle. Having the AC run for 6 hours with the 400 option and then have the generator kick in if the batteries get to low is very interesting for those who have pets.

[wincrasher]

Well Jim is quite the song and dance man, isn't he? Well end up getting the details after a long and annoying back and forth over the coming months.

I imagine the early buyers will be happy with getting these options - they'll be built to order and delivered straight to the new owners. But I wonder how the dealers are going to take care of these vans as inventory builds and they sit on lots for a while. It's hard to buy an RV as it is without having the batteries already ruined by incompetent dealers. I just wonder how all these dealers are actually going to cope with these much more complicated rigs and unsophisticated buyers.

[gerrym51]

Davydd-i find it hard to believe that lithiums can continuously be used to 10 percent.

but i am not a battery expert. Roadtrek will never give out anymore info than they have to.

although i would love more battery capacity i have to say the zion has so far worked out perfectly for what it is.

although i ran the air conditioner just off battery for a few minutes i have made sure to run it when the engine generator is going.

the battery has never shown less than full. the solar panels seem to keep up with the refrigerator.

of course i know its limitations and don't tax it.

as far as high idle roadtrek does not seem to use it. in fact Jim said units made after may 1 don't even have to be revved at all. prior to may 1 it was 1400 rpm for 15 seconds and prior to that it was 2500 rpm for 30 seconds. I have no insight other than they seem to be using 'smart' alternators like the kind made by Balmar.

[Davydd]

When I start my engine with a key the idle is around 800 rpm and when I start without the key and have the high idle it idles around 1200 rpm. The higher the RPM the more amps charging. When on the road and driving at over 2000 rpms I am even charging at a higher rate. Most all my charging is taking place while driving. The second alternator is dedicated solely to charging the house batteries of course and it is a rather fast charger much more so than being plugged into shore power.

The future of all this is the independence. Hammill said you could throw away your 30A shore power cord if you like. That's somewhat true. I went from February 23 to May 15 on the road without plugging in. When home I am plugged into shore power. This winter, I am not sure yet what I might do. I am curious as to how they will recommend winterizing.

I'll say this again. This system will give you freedom you might not understand yet. But if you go part way with 200ah or 400ah set up and think you'll still depend on air conditioning for your travels this may prove to be overkill if you still find yourself gravitating to campgrounds with shore power. If you can cut the cord so to speak you'll love it.

[eurovanman]

This is funny, and disconcerting.