RoadTrek's EcoTrek

[booster]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

ah-conspiracy theorists even here.

july/august start of new model year. voltrek was ready for sprinter models currently the biggest seller.

new year-new features-new price

There may be some conspiracies going on, but I don't this is one of them , so I will leave the tin foil hat at home.

I just think it is a very interesting event in the whole, now rapidly changing, class B market.

You will probably see the other manufacturers react to Roadtrek, and each others, changes and improvements in the same way.

It will all be good for market and customers, I would think, but we all know that there will be some growing pains and problems with the likely hastily brought to market stuff.

I do wonder what the lithium and other relatively expensive features will do to the overall cost structure, though. Hopefully, Winnebago will continue to offer the more basic models, if the chose to compete in the new features contest.

[Davydd]

No conspiracy. It is plain bad policy and management if you announce and promise something you can't deliver. To add something at a dealer at a later date inconveniences the customer, puts a burden on the dealer to do something they are not familiar with and even may not have the expertise, and will cost Roadtrek money. Any way you look at it, it was not well thought out.

The worst case scenario here is if it is not tested and ready, there is a possibility it may not work correctly initially or you are subjecting customers to beta testing. They already did that with their first foray into lithium ion batteries and there are customers out there with them. One has been on this board. Yet Hammill in his zeal to badmouth competition inadvertently admitted Roadtrek's own earlier failures with Etrek lithium ion.

Building class Bs is not like autos. New model years means production line setups and huge investments in extremely high volumes. Class B features can be added at any time. They don't have to be model year dependent and there have been numerous examples of that going on with all converters including Roadtrek I believe. In a competitive small volume market it is foolish to tie your product features in on a yearly basis. Of course in this whole ecoTrek strategy Roadtrek has already announced, promised and rescinded on models and older models. It is important to strike first. That's a business given but you must have your ducks in a row. If they are reacting to competition then they are doing so badly.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

No conspiracy. It is plain bad policy and management if you announce and promise something you can't deliver. To add something at a dealer at a later date inconveniences the customer, puts a burden on the dealer to do something they are not familiar with and even may not have the expertise, and will cost Roadtrek money. Any way you look at it, it was not well thought out.

The worst case scenario here is if it is not tested and ready, there is a possibility it may not work correctly initially or you are subjecting customers to beta testing. They already did that with their first foray into lithium ion batteries and there are customers out there with them. One has been on this board. Yet Hammill in his zeal to badmouth competition inadvertently admitted Roadtrek's own earlier failures with Etrek lithium ion.

Building class Bs is not like autos. New model years means production line setups and huge investments in extremely high volumes. Class B features can be added at any time. They don't have to be model year dependent and there have been numerous examples of that going on with all converters including Roadtrek I believe. In a competitive small volume market it is foolish to tie your product features in on a yearly basis. Of course in this whole ecoTrek strategy Roadtrek has already announced, promised and rescinded on models and older models. It is important to strike first. That's a business given but you must have your ducks in a row. If they are reacting to competition then they are doing so badly.

having 2 things put on the van that were back ordered i agree. however i am interested with volttrek. if dealer can install it it is a plus for me

[obgraham]

In line with what Davydd says, I think this whole super-tech issue now hinges on just how well these units perform once they are out in the real world.

It's all well and good to reap the good publicity at announcement time. But have a few major faults early on and the whole idea could be squenched.

[sammie14]

Originally Posted by Davydd

No conspiracy. It is plain bad policy and management if you announce and promise something you can't deliver. To add something at a dealer at a later date inconveniences the customer, puts a burden on the dealer to do something they are not familiar with and even may not have the expertise, and will cost Roadtrek money. Any way you look at it, it was not well thought out.

The worst case scenario here is if it is not tested and ready, there is a possibility it may not work correctly initially or you are subjecting customers to beta testing. They already did that with their first foray into lithium ion batteries and there are customers out there with them. One has been on this board. Yet Hammill in his zeal to badmouth competition inadvertently admitted Roadtrek's own earlier failures with Etrek lithium ion.

Building class Bs is not like autos. New model years means production line setups and huge investments in extremely high volumes. Class B features can be added at any time. They don't have to be model year dependent and there have been numerous examples of that going on with all converters including Roadtrek I believe. In a competitive small volume market it is foolish to tie your product features in on a yearly basis. Of course in this whole ecoTrek strategy Roadtrek has already announced, promised and rescinded on models and older models. It is important to strike first. That's a business given but you must have your ducks in a row. If they are reacting to competition then they are doing so badly.

Wow, you said what I was hesitant to say on the FB page. I am currently worried about the Eco 400 installation on my Zion. If originally the tire had to be mounted on the back, how is it now possible to mount the tire underneath with that many batteries without messing around with tanks, plumbing, etc.? That is why I am considering going with only Eco 200. Hopefully, they thought that one out. I don't boondock much and I think the Volt Trek should compensate for lack of more lithium for the few times I do.

I would like your opinion and I promise not to argue with you

[Davydd]

sammie14,

With the Eco 200 you would have the equivalent of between 3 and 4 AGM batteries. That will get you an overnight anywhere boondocking and probably a few days if you have the second alternator engine generator which you can simply turn on manually when you want to charge your batteries. What would a Voltrek give you? I'm not sure. Pet protection maybe? People have been traveling with pets in Class Bs for years and they figure out how to do it without having an engine come on to run air conditioning. I think in doing so you would attract a lot of unwanted attention.

I've traveled without a spare for years, including going to Alaska. 400ah will give you a lot of boondocking and would further negate the need for Voltrek since you would rely on it even less so. You would need 800ah to "throw away your cord" as Hammill mentioned, IMO, but you'll evidently never get there with a Promaster. Then with 800ah you would probably have to be pretty negligent in watching your batteries to ever need Voltrek. I do have the autostart feature on my Advanced RV as it was pretty much standard with them. It would be hard for me with my touring habits almost always not plugged into shore power to ever invoke it other than the testing I've done to see how it works. We just got back from being parked at a northern Minnesota lake for three days. With my previous Bs I had plugged into an available 15 amp service but with our current van didn't have to bother.

This past weekend the temperatures hit 90F where we were. We kept the sliding door open the whole time with a sliding screen door. We also opened up the back doors with our back screen in place and slept that way. The temperatures dropped into the low 70s overnight and that was not fully necessary but satisfying to do. In our travels we rarely use air conditioning. I know, I know, the Texans, Arizonians and Floridians will come out of the woodwork and tell me I am wrong.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by sammie14

Wow, you said what I was hesitant to say on the FB page. I am currently worried about the Eco 400 installation on my Zion. If originally the tire had to be mounted on the back, how is it now possible to mount the tire underneath with that many batteries without messing around with tanks, plumbing, etc.? That is why I am considering going with only Eco 200. Hopefully, they thought that one out. I don't boondock much and I think the Volt Trek should compensate for lack of more lithium for the few times I do.

I would like your opinion and I promise not to argue with you

we had this discussion before. my opinion. if your only going to get one battery then stick with the standard battery. the tppl agm i told you about. because the tppl battery charges as fast as the lithium-the amount of power is not quite as much though. research tppl agm and see how much better than agm. However if you want best total power get the 2 lithium eco400. i you should find out if voltrek works with the agm. as far as jim saying he could get both under the van-maybe you should ask him what he has to do to do it. since i don't know the dimensions there might have been space.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

sammie14,

With the Eco 200 you would have the equivalent of between 3 and 4 AGM batteries. That will get you an overnight anywhere boondocking and probably a few days if you have the second alternator engine generator which you can simply turn on manually when you want to charge your batteries. What would a Voltrek give you? I'm not sure. Pet protection maybe? People have been traveling with pets in Class Bs for years and they figure out how to do it without having an engine come on to run air conditioning. I think in doing so you would attract a lot of unwanted attention.

I've traveled without a spare for years, including going to Alaska. 400ah will give you a lot of boondocking and would further negate the need for Voltrek since you would rely on it even less so. You would need 800ah to "throw away your cord" as Hammill mentioned, IMO, but you'll evidently never get there with a Promaster. Then with 800ah you would probably have to be pretty negligent in watching your batteries to ever need Voltrek. I do have the autostart feature on my Advanced RV as it was pretty much standard with them. It would be hard for me with my touring habits almost always not plugged into shore power to ever invoke it other than the testing I've done to see how it works. We just got back from being parked at a northern Minnesota lake for three days. With my previous Bs I had plugged into an available 15 amp service but with our current van didn't have to bother.

This past weekend the temperatures hit 90F where we were. We kept the sliding door open the whole time with a sliding screen door. We also opened up the back doors with our back screen in place and slept that way. The temperatures dropped into the low 70s overnight and that was not fully necessary but satisfying to do. In our travels we rarely use air conditioning. I know, I know, the Texans, Arizonians and Floridians will come out of the woodwork and tell me I am wrong.

Davydd i totally believe that you rarely use air conditioner-but you live in Minnesota. obviously i'm sure you've gone to some arm areas but the area you live is relatively cool

[Davydd]

Gerry,

Yes, I live in Minnesota. I'm not a native Minnesotan. Most all of my RV travel is outside of Minnesota all over the country, but as I mentioned it was over 90F during the whole weekend in Minnesota and is over 90 right now. I know how to cope. Arizona and Florida are for winter. Northern Minnesota is for summer. I know how to seek altitude and head for the mountains and conifer forests. I know enough to stay out of Arizona, Florida and the south right now. This fall I will be mostly in Canada. There are times when you cannot avoid the heat. It does not take too many brain cells to just go find a plug in campground. Class Bs are steel ovens. Think, plan and use accordingly. If it is that hot why are people subjecting themselves to such punishment sitting in the oven when being outdoors with nature is the objective for most? When a southerner scolds me about his climate I think why can't they plan accordingly in the reverse. Class Bs are nimble and are made for seeking and following the weather.

I'm going to say it as simply as I can. In my opinion, boondocking in a remote wilderness and air conditioning is an oxymoron. The ecoTrek should be designed for the getaway to nature, not to solve an air conditioning desire. If air conditioning is your end game then I think you are pissing your money away.

Did I tell you I saw a wolf in the woods crossing the trail in front of me Saturday.

[gerrym51]

Davydd-relatively cool means relatively cool. compared to miami your really cool

[Davydd]

Did you know Miami's record high temperature was only 100 degrees (1942)? Minneapolis' highest temperature was 108 degrees (c. 1936) and I have experienced 106 degrees (1988 ). I have also experienced a -43 degrees at my house. The official temperature was not that cold but I live in a depressed bowl of land adjacent to a marsh where cold settles.

There has been one major change in Minnesota since I moved here. The dew point has risen considerably which makes the heat index feel hotter. I think it was only a few years ago that the dew point ever surpassed 70 degrees and now it is common.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

.......but you live in Minnesota. obviously i'm sure you've gone to some arm areas but the area you live is relatively cool

I have a sister-in-law who lives in MN and worked with someone born and raised there. The running joke was MN only had 2 seasons - winter and summer. Days over 95F in southern and central MN are not uncommon. And someone once told me the state bird was the mosquito!

But I do agree with Davydd - somehow boondocking and A/C (with the noise) seem at odds. Too hot? A good roof vent fan + some 12v fans + good screens on open windows will do it.

You want A/C? You can always go to a campground and plug in.

[Jostalli]

I am surprised Advanced RV or Roadtrek is not installing efficient 12V A/C units. There are plenty to choose from. Outside Van uses Kingtec Kingtec A/C - Outside Van. I bought the U-Go 12V unit from Autoclima.

[sammie14]

That's what I do when I need A/C. Now with the Zion's gas engine and engine generator (which is noticeably quieter), I hope to boondock more. And, yes, I will park very far away from you all

[mumkin]

Talking about new model years, when I put in my order, I had the choice of getting a 2015/2015 or a 2015/2016. For a couple thousand extra dollars or so. I asked Roadtrek directly (not Lake Region) what I got that was different for the extra money. The answer was basically that "6" at the end of the second choice. Absolutely everything exactly the same... It seems that 2016 platforms won't be available from Chevy until probably 2016, so I chose the 2015/2015 and for the first time my platform year matches the manufacture year. yea!!

So I took the money I saved on model year and can put it towards the Voltrek...

[sammie14]

Touch confused. 6" more on 2015/2016?

[sammie14]

Thanks Davidd. That answered my question. I've always had 2 AGM batteries and having the equivalent of 3 or 4 seems quite nice. It's RTs ability to stuff more underneath along with the spare that really concerns me. Then the engine generator should be sufficient for my needs. As I say, I don't boondock often, preferring to use state parks, particularly Oregon. Men are far more comfortable doing without a spare, I've noticed.

I forgot to post this. Oh, well.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by sammie14

Thanks Davidd. That answered my question. I've always had 2 AGM batteries and having the equivalent of 3 or 4 seems quite nice. It's RTs ability to stuff more underneath along with the spare that really concerns me. Then the engine generator should be sufficient for my needs. As I say, I don't boondock often, preferring to use state parks, particularly Oregon. Men are far more comfortable doing without a spare, I've noticed.

I forgot to post this. Oh, well.

you need to ask Jim what he has to do to get it under

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Jostalli

I am surprised Advanced RV or Roadtrek is not installing efficient 12V A/C units. There are plenty to choose from. Outside Van uses Kingtec Kingtec A/C - Outside Van. I bought the U-Go 12V unit from Autoclima.

Why surprised? First, we don't know what the two experimental Roadtreks Campskunk and Wendland had that were not put on the roof. When I put in my order Advanced RV was investigating a 12V air conditioner and I would have been interested in it. As it turned out, it did not meet their expectations. Advanced RV will not put in just any old thing to just do it. It has to work for them and it has to be the best they can find at the time. Evidently it could not perform as well or better than the Mach 8 they were installing. That's the way they operate.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by sammie14

Touch confused. 6" more on 2015/2016?

For the extra money all you get is the "6" at the end of 2016. Everything is the same. In other words there are no upgrades or changes... not new window coverings or flooring or whatever.