RoadTrek's EcoTrek

[Gryphon]

Originally Posted by BobB

So if I wanted a Zion with Ecotrek 400 + 200w solar, that would be $4992 + $2370 = $7362 above base MSRP of $86931?

Yes, except I think you swapped a couple digits there, the 200w solar is 2730, so it would be $7722 for both.

Originally Posted by BobB

Standard batteries on Zion are "One (1) 400 AMP AGM". What happens to those? Do you think you get a credit or does Ecotrek 400 already take that into account?

Good question. There are two addon packages for the 200AH EcoTrek batteries, one that says it works in tandem with AGM batteries and one that does not say that. The other EcoTrek battery packages don't say anything about tandem, so my guess is that you have the tandem option only for the 200 AH EcoTrek, and for anything above 200 AH you lose the AGM batteries. I assume that's built into the pricing.

At first I though the 200 AH tandem option might be for retrofits only, but then remembered that they decided not to do any retrofits. So I'm not sure why you'd choose the non-tandem option if you can keep the AGMs for the same price.

[wincrasher]

Seems like a hefty price for the Voltrek.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by Gryphon

Yes, except I think you swapped a couple digits there, the 200w solar is 2730, so it would be $7722 for both.


Good question. There are two addon packages for the 200AH EcoTrek batteries, one that says it works in tandem with AGM batteries and one that does not say that. The other EcoTrek battery packages don't say anything about tandem, so my guess is that you have the tandem option only for the 200 AH EcoTrek, and for anything above 200 AH you lose the AGM batteries. I assume that's built into the pricing.

Yes, 2730. 2370 was slip - wishful thinking.

So if I went for 200 AH EcoTrek Tandem (and spending only $2496) I would keep the 400 AH AGM's? Ending up with 600ah? Just for calc using 80% useable on the 200ah lithiums and 50% on the 400ah AGMs, that would give me 360AH useable?? Does that sound right?

Add the 200W solar for $2730 and for increase of $5226 over MSRP get 600ah (360 useable) + solar. For someone like me with very modest electrical demands those $ are better. Of course I would add the under hood generator, but that is not an unreasonable starting point.

Will be interested in how that tandem package works now.

[booster]

The batteries probably go all in the same place, so you might not be able to have all of both kinds at the same time. It will be interesting to see how they do that. The AGM part may just be a single battery to keep some power available when it gets cold.

[wincrasher]

If I remember correctly from what Gerry was saying the Zion's battery is not quite 400 Ah - Roadtrek was calling an equivalent, right. Thought he has a 180ah TPPL AGM battery, correct?

[booster]

It was a 400CCA battery, I think, 180ah.

[gerrym51]

Northstar sms agm 400


http://buy.northstarbattery.com/p/sms-agm-400-battery


the add on is so dealer can put it on a van on his lot. since agm's are still standard a dealer would have no choice in ordering a van to be on lot for sale.

they would either have to order all vans with lithium packages and not any with agm.

or just do orders-some buyers might not want to buy a lithium off lot-might want agm.

lot of moving parts. also does a dealer order with eco200 or eco400. makes the price higher. could order with eco200 then add the add on package


the Northstar battery is as close to lithium as you can get without being lithium it's reserve capacity is 400 minutes-it's how tppl batteries are better judged-it is about the equal of 210 amp hour agm based on reserve capacity. a tppl charges almost(i said almost) as fast as lithium. the eco tandem is only available at this time for new vans on lot. they are not going to be going on retrofits anytime soon no matter how current is your model-that includes me to my chagrin. hopefully that will change but it is what it is

[BobB]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

the eco tandem is only available at this time for new vans on lot.

Thanks for clarification on the tandem option. So it seems like you either get standard AGMs or add option for Lithium system.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by BobB

Thanks for clarification on the tandem option. So it seems like you either get standard AGMs or add option for Lithium system.

as far as i know agm's are standard. however now a dealer will have to decide up front if they want to order a van for sitting on a lot with either agm or the extra cost ecotrek. i'm on record as wanting ecotrek however i don't know if every buyer would be.

the tandem gives them some flexibility.

however i have no idea how many tandems can be put on a roadtrek.

on the bigger models i guess dealers will have to decide if they want ecotreks.in bigger models price can be substantial-we will have to wait

as i've said before the zion as is is aok for 2 people and no pets. pets is what makes the ecotrek package attractive to us. i am interested in what a zion SRT is though

[BobB]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

on the bigger models i guess dealers will have to decide if they want ecotreks.in bigger models price can be substantial-we will have to wait

I wonder if the EcoTrek packages themselves are upgradable by dealer. So if I get my new RT with the 400 EcoTrek, can the dealer later upgrade me to an 800 EcoTrek? Or a 200 EcoTrek to a 1600 EcoTrek?

Now there may be a limit on how much an upgrade they can do; 800 Ecotrek may use a different charger than the 200 EcoTrek, etc. But if the system is designed modular/plug and play, then maybe?

This would enable the phase out of AGMs, standardize on the Lithium systems, so dealers can keep on their lot only RVs with lithiums and if the customer wanted more AH, they could do the upgrade for the vehicle on the lot. No special orders, dealer installed.

It does move the base price point up, but then the more RVs with Lithium they sell, then the price point can move down. Does any of that make sense?

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by BobB

I wonder if the EcoTrek packages themselves are upgradable by dealer. So if I get my new RT with the 400 EcoTrek, can the dealer later upgrade me to an 800 EcoTrek? Or a 200 EcoTrek to a 1600 EcoTrek?

Now there may be a limit on how much an upgrade they can do; 800 Ecotrek may use a different charger than the 200 EcoTrek, etc. But if the system is designed modular/plug and play, then maybe?

This would enable the phase out of AGMs, standardize on the Lithium systems, so dealers can keep on their lot only RVs with lithiums and if the customer wanted more AH, they could do the upgrade for the vehicle on the lot. No special orders, dealer installed.

It does move the base price point up, but then the more RVs with Lithium they sell, then the price point can move down. Does any of that make sense?

Space would be the only limitation for upgrades. Wire size and chargers will be the same.

[wincrasher]

I think you'll see very few dealers ordering units on speculation with all this tech. B's are hard enough to sell at the prices we've already been seeing. I just can't imagine any dealer having 10 or more units at $165k+ on his lot. It's hard enough to find a dealer with 4 or 5 standard vans as it is. I think what you'll see is virtually all of these will be special orders.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by BobB

I wonder if the EcoTrek packages themselves are upgradable by dealer. So if I get my new RT with the 400 EcoTrek, can the dealer later upgrade me to an 800 EcoTrek? Or a 200 EcoTrek to a 1600 EcoTrek?

Now there may be a limit on how much an upgrade they can do; 800 Ecotrek may use a different charger than the 200 EcoTrek, etc. But if the system is designed modular/plug and play, then maybe?

This would enable the phase out of AGMs, standardize on the Lithium systems, so dealers can keep on their lot only RVs with lithiums and if the customer wanted more AH, they could do the upgrade for the vehicle on the lot. No special orders, dealer installed.

It does move the base price point up, but then the more RVs with Lithium they sell, then the price point can move down. Does any of that make sense?

i would say no

[BobB]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

I think you'll see very few dealers ordering units on speculation with all this tech. B's are hard enough to sell at the prices we've already been seeing. I just can't imagine any dealer having 10 or more units at $165k+ on his lot. It's hard enough to find a dealer with 4 or 5 standard vans as it is. I think what you'll see is virtually all of these will be special orders.

I agree.

But I could see Promaster based RV's, like a Zion with 200AH EcoTrek + 200W solar for just under $100k MSRP. A Zion with solar, under hood generator, TV and upgraded cabinetry prices at about $96k on the current RT website. Add 200AH EcoTrek for $2496. $4992 buys you 400EcoTrek

[BobB]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

i would say no

Just thinking out loud

[Arlo]

More thinking out loud -- this is just the first phase of a multi-year marketing-manufacturing-servicing process. Prices will drop, benefits vs. costs will be clarified and RT will have a competitive edge in this market. Consumers that are willing and able to shell out the buckage for a high-end Type B will buy EcoTrek 400-800-1600, especially when future prices are compared to the expectation established by this first-phase price point. It will be interesting to see how easily higher-volume competitors can enter this market. Time will tell the story.

[Davydd]

The more I read about all this EcoTrek stuff the more I believe Roadtrek really doesn't know what they are doing despite all the "trust me" talk they espouse and putting down some of their most arduous advocates for questioning. Combining AGM with Lithium ion for house batteries? That's a first I ever heard. Mumkin saying she will need to buy a Trimetric after market to read voltage? They putting this on idiot lights? Retrofits? On, off, on again for new vans sitting in lots? If it was that simple where is all the research and technical development? No high idle option for charging, which is a Mercedes Benz gift no less? Voltrek auto starting with no description how it works? No balls to reveal to customers what actually goes into the system other than to say it is a sealed box they won't have to worry about? A rollout so uncoordinated, disjointed and backtracking that it was almost laughable? They have PT Barnum down pat. I think I will sit this one out and read with amusement as I have the speculation today.

[tbirdman]

Also you need to figure in a 30% solar tax credit available to the end of 2015. The entire system is eligible (solar, batteries and controller) is available for this tax credit.

Which this was available for the Travato.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

Also you need to figure in a 30% solar tax credit available to the end of 2015.

I found some references to this tax credit online, but they said "The 30% Investment Tax Credit (ITC) for residential and commercial solar systems will expire on December 31, 2016"

After that there are references to it stepping down to 10% in 2017.

You should check with your tax advisor/accountant as to that date.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The more I read about all this EcoTrek stuff the more I believe Roadtrek really doesn't know what they are doing despite all the "trust me" talk they espouse and putting down some of their most arduous advocates for questioning. Combining AGM with Lithium ion for house batteries? That's a first I ever heard. Mumkin saying she will need to buy a Trimetric after market to read voltage? They putting this on idiot lights? Retrofits? On, off, on again for new vans sitting in lots? If it was that simple where is all the research and technical development? No high idle option for charging, which is a Mercedes Benz gift no less? Voltrek auto starting with no description how it works? No balls to reveal to customers what actually goes into the system other than to say it is a sealed box they won't have to worry about? A rollout so uncoordinated, disjointed and backtracking that it was almost laughable? They have PT Barnum down pat. I think I will sit this one out and read with amusement as I have the speculation today.

I haven't been following the Facebook discussions, so I haven't seen much, but I did see, when I finally went there today, that they mentioned a two wire connection piggyback install of 200ah of lithium. That would indicate using all the original charging systems as is and doing all the rest in the magic box. Not a particularly easy task to do totally right, I would think.

I didn't see the issues with getting after the folks that dared to question things, but the way they run the Facebook site, I would imagine anything non supportive of Roadtrek would get edited out quickly. I hope it doesn't get back to the attacking anyone who wants to know anything, as that is totally counterproductive.

I am a bit surprised by how haphazard the rollout has been, with all the different versions of what would be available and to whom. I would have thought history would have had them well learned, and a very careful release setup.

Time will work out all of it, I am sure.