Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

[booster]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

we are paying cash for the zion- it was not a price issue although the wife and I a usually pretty frugal. in all honesty i don't like sprinters

Such blasphemy!! But I do agree.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

Such blasphemy!! But I do agree.

I'm waiting for Davydd to say 'Aha,i knew it'.

[booster]

Probably should have stated that as "I don't like a Sprinter for us, I think", which is true. Others like the way Sprinters are made and converted, but we prefer other brands for quite a few reasons, all personal opinion. To each their own.

[stanw909]

I have misgivings about the Promaster platform as far as longevity is concerned but with a wife who becomes more arthritic year after year I like the lower thresholds in the rear. The passenger and driver's areas are as high up as most vans but she can go through the side door and step up to the cab. I also like the lower overall height.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

Probably should have stated that as "I don't like a Sprinter for us, I think", which is true. Others like the way Sprinters are made and converted, but we prefer other brands for quite a few reasons, all personal opinion. To each their own.

what i really don't like is post 2007 diesel systems.

pre 2007 are aok

[GeorgeB]

As new owners of a ProMaster Camper, we are very happy with our new rig. We first ordered a short Sprinter based RV but didn't get along with the company that was building it. It was not very efficient in dealing with simple BTO requests, and suprisingly unresponsive to new customers buying a 100k+ rig. We were scared to imagine what it could be like to negociate for repairs with such an attitude! Although we liked the Sprinter for it's sophisticated german engineering, we weren't sold on Diesel and on the very high and thin form factor of the van, perfect for european city deliveries, but not ideal for a camper van. It's a thoroughbred in terms of fit and finish. It's engine is very fuel efficient, specially the i4 with the 7 speed transmission. What made us cancel our Sprinter order and switch for our ProMaster camper was primeraly the appeal of the layout, made possible by the length and width of the extended 159" WB ProMaster 3500 van. An 18" difference in length with the short Sprinter that made all the difference in terms of space usage. To get the same functional layout the only option was a 170" WB Sprinter, limiting parking options when living in a city. The other appeal was of course the 15 000$ reduction in price, challenging us to go ahead with unproven reliability of the ProMaster in North America. The convincing relation with the very reputable upfitter of our new van was also a deciding factor for switching. But the decisive moment to go ahead with canceling the Sprinter order, was when I drove the ProMaster for the first time. Of all the vans tested it was one of the most satisfying driving experience, with the FWD combined with lower chassis and the impressive modified trans with the V6 Pentastar. Driving a Sprinter feels more like being in a truck, or a boat ( let's say a yacht!), a ProMaster feels like driving a mini-van with a very commanding driving position. Half of the fun of a B van camper is getting there, and the ProMaster delivers. Time will tell if we made the best choice in terms of reliability. Fiat has a good reputation in Europe. We will see what happens when combined with RAM low scores. What's very reassuring is that all the major North American upfitters chose the ProMaster. The elegant and impressive Sprinter, dressed in it's three piece suit, will always have a lot of sex-appeal, but the snug pedestrian ProMaster beast is gaining ground as a casual no nonsense van that was GM and Ford territory.





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[mumkin]

Which Promaster conversion did you buy GeorgeB?

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Which Promaster conversion did you buy GeorgeB?

The Safari Condo ProMaster XL Flex
Great van, great company based in Quebec. Available for Americans if you bring your US van for conversion at the plant.
http://www.safaricondo.com/en/motorises_Promaster_FLEX

Complete photo album at:
http://centrelab.smugmug.com/PERSO-G...docom/n-MNSpq/

[mumkin]

Nice rig... but that floorplan wouldn't quite work for me (who doesn't want to waste space with a dinette since I would never use it). I like the high rear bed. If I decide to go the Promaster route, it will be between Zion and Great West. I really want to get under 20 feet though. decisions decisions... I love my current Chevy rig, but it is getting too big for me.

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Nice rig... but that floorplan wouldn't quite work for me (who doesn't want to waste space with a dinette since I would never use it). I like the high rear bed. If I decide to go the Promaster route, it will be between Zion and Great West. I really want to get under 20 feet though. decisions decisions... I love my current Chevy rig, but it is getting too big for me.

Thanks mumkin, We also wanted to be under 20 feet, that's why we ordered a Short Sprinter first, but we don't find that the extra foot and a half in length is problematic with our new ProMaster. Living in a city the 20' 11" lenght of the extended chassis is never a problem for driving and parking it. Although the dinette seems like a waste of space if you don't plan to entertain friends in the van, it's great for having passengers close to the front cab and it gives more room for dining up front, with feet up position on the bench and if you install a TV it becomes a perfect lounge area. But if you want to ditch the dinette, I would have a look at the Pleasureway Lexor before deciding on the Zion or Great West. But since this a Zion thread, let's stay with that topic.

The Zion would be a good deal if sufficient solar (or an affordable second alternator) and battery capacity was included with the proposed MSRP. I guess it's negociable. The other problem with the Zion is that if you use the back area for storing stuff in the alley, you have to take it outside to sleep. The front area is very limited for using it as a dining area, so you have to constantly fit and store the bedding each day. But in general it's a spacious layout, except for the shower area.

I would wait and see if Hymer.usa will bring their exented 640 models in the US. They are so much better designed and built than what Roadtrek and Winnebago offers. Except for the cassette toilet capacity that won't appeal to everyone, I hope that they expand and adapt to their market in the US, just to offer competitive and well designed alternatives to the actual B market.


The gorgeous dinette in our Safari Condo ProMaster

[eurovanman]

I've always loved the professional automotive interior of the Safari Condo. Can you tell me if they have any all season capabilities?

Thanks for all of the excellent photos.

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

The Safari Condo ProMaster XL Flex
Great van, great company based in Quebec. Available for Americans if you bring your US van for conversion at the plant.
http://www.safaricondo.com/en/motorises_Promaster_FLEX

Complete photo album at:
http://centrelab.smugmug.com/PERSO-G...docom/n-MNSpq/

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

Thanks mumkin, We also wanted to be under 20 feet, that's why we ordered a Short Sprinter first, but we don't find that the extra foot and a half in length is problematic with our new ProMaster. Living in a city the 20' 11" lenght of the extended chassis is never a problem for driving and parking it. Although the dinette seems like a waste of space if you don't plan to entertain friends in the van, it's great for having passengers close to the front cab and it gives more room for dining up front, with feet up position on the bench and if you install a TV it becomes a perfect lounge area. But if you want to ditch the dinette, I would have a look at the Pleasureway Lexor before deciding on the Zion or Great West. But since this a Zion thread, let's stay with that topic.

Since it will only be me and the mutt, I need neither seating for others or a place to eat meals. I don't even use my dining room table at home. I tend to eat in front of the computer. I've never tuned in the TV in my current rig.

The reason that the Zion made the cut with me rather than the Pleasureway was the ability to get rid of the Onan and instead have the under-the-hood generator. I have had nothing but trouble with my current Onan. In the last two years I have replaced both the carburetor and two fuel pumps... and I have religiously exercised it for one hour every two weeks under full load. I would just do without, but traveling with a dog means that you may need it.

I've also been talking to GWV, since they will work with the smaller platform and get rid of the Onan...

My problem with the whole thing is that I am a bit leery of the Promaster as a bit of an unknown.

[gerrym51]

Mumkin-did you read the posts about the zion battery?


I think roadtreks engine generator system is great-but not for the zion. it's battery is only 186 12 volt amp hours.

if that is a requisite i would get the ranger. with the 1/2 e-trek package the tire is underneath and would be close to your desired 20 feet

[mumkin]

Yes, both the Ranger and 170 are on the list... what with my trusting the Chevy platform. Price is almost the same with the options. I did read the battery discussion, but must admit that I don't really understand all of this stuff - except that it was decided that the battery wasn't good enough. I suspect that they will soon add a battery option. GWV would fix that issue for me too.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Yes, both the Ranger and 170 are on the list... what with my trusting the Chevy platform. Price is almost the same with the options. I did read the battery discussion, but must admit that I don't really understand all of this stuff - except that it was decided that the battery wasn't good enough. I suspect that they will soon add a battery option. GWV would fix that issue for me too.

i bought a zion. i requested 3 times for an extra battery. i was turned down 3 times. it would require re-enginering(their words) which they are not prepared to do. maybe someday-but someday who knows.

however the zion comes standard with 2/3 of the engine generator system- the 2000 watt inverter and of course the battery. a 220 amp alternator is already standard. getting the extra 280 amp alternator with this battery would be like filling a shotglass with a bucket of water.

the air conditioner will still work off the battery(for a short time-maybe 20 minutes and longer when running the engine with the 220 amp alternator-yes i know at idle will be getting about 100 amps at best).

if a zion is wanted-and my wife wants the zion-the best option is to get the Onan even if rarely used-we think of our cats like you think of your dog.


yes the Onan can be troublesome-but even if loud you can walk away from the van(assuming nobody complains).

you could not do with engine generator on the zion unless you left the van running.

[mumkin]

My problem with the onan is first off I have had nothing but repair bills with the one I have. And even if it didn't constantly cost me repair bills, the rig is stored 25 miles away. So it is a long drive to exercise the damn thing ... in spite of the fact that doing it religiously hasn't helped me to avoid repairs. I never want to EVER own an Onan generator in this lifetime.

Letting the engine run while I run an errand is no big deal to me. I grew up in ND where on the coldest nights, if you went out to dinner, you had to let your car run the whole time or it wouldn't start when you wanted to go home. It is quieter than a genny...

So are you saying that running the engine in the Zion with the stock alternator would run the roof AC indefinitely or would it just add enough to the battery to keep it going for an hour or two?

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by mumkin

My problem with the onan is first off I have had nothing but repair bills with the one I have. And even if it didn't constantly cost me repair bills, the rig is stored 25 miles away. So it is a long drive to exercise the damn thing ... in spite of the fact that doing it religiously hasn't helped me to avoid repairs. I never want to EVER own an Onan generator in this lifetime.

Letting the engine run while I run an errand is no big deal to me. I grew up in ND where on the coldest nights, if you went out to dinner, you had to let your car run the whole time or it wouldn't start when you wanted to go home. It is quieter than a genny...

So are you saying that running the engine in the Zion with the stock alternator would run the roof AC indefinitely or would it just add enough to the battery to keep it going for an hour or two?

then you should not get a zion. you;d be better off with the ranger.

as zions are made today-who knows roadtrek could start using an additional battery-you would be better off with the Ranger and the 1/2 trek package.

my opinion is as far as the Zion is concerned is either the ONAN or No generator. the engine generator with the zions current battery is wasted.

you need at least the 440 amps in the ranger with 1/2 trek package

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by eurovanman

I've always loved the professional automotive interior of the Safari Condo. Can you tell me if they have any all season capabilities?

Thanks for all of the excellent photos.

My pleasure eurovanman,

The Safari condo vans have their fresh water system inside the van (tank and pipes), but no heated black and grey tanks. A lot of Safari condo owners use their vans during winter months, but with cassette toilets, and they don't use their drains for waste water. It is usually so cold ( -10 F today!) that no van based campers will be able to offer fully winterized facilities. They are limits to heated and insulated tanks when you have to compensate for more than 40 degree to protect your water from freezing. The lack of efficient insulation in a typical van conversion, even with heavy duty heating systems, makes it nearly impossible to build winter-proof systems with our extreme winter temperatures.

The only solution is to go with heavily insulated boxed-in habitation units, like the german Bocklet's Dakar 650. They have the option of installing totally insulated fresh and waste water systems in the heated underfloor of the units.

See the Bocklet's Dakar 650 full album at:https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2388992&type=3
On my Kampervan FB albums [urlhttps://www.facebook.com/kampervanfun/photos_stream?tab=photos_albums][/url]
Or my Kampervan Flipboard blog https://flipboard.com/@gogeorges/kampervan-u5qd3sehy





Or a more extreme Rv!

[mumkin]

Thanks for the advice George, but you missed one question:

So are you saying that running the engine in the Zion with the stock alternator would run the roof AC indefinitely or would it just add enough to the battery to keep it going for an hour or two?

I am curious as to if or how long one could run the AC unit with the engine running...

Were you aware that the under hood gen for the Ranger costs $8203 before adding any batteries if you need them? You also have to add the larger engine. (To add the gen on the Zion is only the $3523 ...same as adding it on the 170)

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Thanks for the advice George, but you missed one question:

I am curious as to if or how long one could run the AC unit with the engine running...

Were you aware that the under hood gen for the Ranger costs $8203 before adding any batteries if you need them? You also have to add the larger engine. (To add the gen on the Zion is only the $3523 ...same as adding it on the 170)

the key thing is the battery capacity-wheter you get the 170 or the ranger(or any 1/2 trek) you ge t a total of 4 6 volt batteries( 440 amp hours)

roadtrek says recharging these larger battery banks is done by the larger additional alternator helping out.

the Zion's battery -tppl and superior- as it is only has a 186 amp cpacity at 20 hours (although this special battery equates to about 220 amps standard agm). it's the battery capacity-in my opinion-that makes the zion not so good a choice for the engine generator

you'd probabably be better off with the 170 or ranger

ps-the underhood generator packages add in the additional batteries already-except on zion

you can have the 2 additional batteries added without getting the engine generator


Also Mumkin-I bought a Zion. the wife and I think it's a great van. However the engine generator system as done on the Zion is not as good as the 1/2 trek packages on the other models because of the battery-that's why we got the Onan.

with the 1/2 trek packages on the other models I think you could walkaway from the van and air conditioner would run for about 90 minutes.

with the Zion i think at most a 1/2 hour(if that).

unless your ready to walk away from the van leaving your keys in a running engine-then i suppose you could.

we have 2 cats. I want the option to walk away from the van with AC on. we will not leave the engine running so Onan was our only option.I doubt this situation will happen but it's a just in case thing.

also as far as prices. the engine generator on the zion is 3500 dollars.however since the inverter and battery are standard your paying 3500 just for the extra alternator and it's wiring