RoadTrek CS Adventurous Packages

[SiennaGuy]

Tonight I looked at the current pricing for the CS Adventurous on the RT website. There are several packages. IMHO, the packages are not very logical and the information is confusing. There doesn't seem to be a way to order the options in these packages individually. After a few hours of nerding out with yet another database, here's my translation.

I listed what each package included. I also figured out what wasn't included in each package, based on everything that was available in these packages. The site doesn't tell you what's not included.

The first group is the regular chassis and the second is the extended chassis. Within each group, the packages are sorted by price. For unknown reasons, the site lists the packages in no logical order (again IMHO). At the end is the list of things that still are available separately.

If anybody has additions or corrections, just let me know.

CS Adventurous Regular Body Packages:
Weekender Package– $11,827

• 270 W solar panel
• Underhood generator with two additional 6V AGM batteries
• VoltStart
• Convenient screen door package
• 24″ LED TV
• Aluminum wheels

Does not include:

• Diesel with Alde heat and hot water system
• EcoTrek (Lithium) batteries
• Induction Stove

Resort Package– $16,894

• EcoTrek 400
• 270 W solar panel
• Underhood generator
• VoltStart
• Convenient screen door package
• 24″ LED TV
• Aluminum wheels

Does not include:

• Diesel with Alde heat and hot water system
• Induction Stove

Outback Package– $20,420

• EcoTrek 400
• 470 W solar panel
• Diesel with Alde heat and hot water system
• Underhood generator
• VoltStart
• Convenient screen door package
• 24″ LED TV
• Aluminum wheels

Does not include:

• Induction Stove

Infinity Package– $26,148
Includes E-Trek Luxury Package:

• EcoTrek 800
• 470 W Solar panel
• Underhood generator
• VoltStart
• Convenient screen door package

Does not include:

• Diesel with Alde heat and hot water system
• Induction Stove

CS Adventurous Extended Body Packages:
XL Gold Package– $7,612

• Extended Sprinter body (24′ 1″)
• Removable headboard
• Undermount A/C

Does not include:

• Diesel with Alde heat and hot water system
• Aluminum Wheels
• EcoTrek (lithium) batteries
• Induction Stove
• Convenient screen door package
• Solar Panels
• 24 inch TV
• Volt Start
• Drop Down Cabinet Above Bed

XL Diamond Package– $15,050

• Extended Sprinter body (24′ 1″)
• Removable headboard
• Undermount A/C
• Drop down cabinet above bed
• 600 W solar panels

Does not include:

• Diesel with Alde heat and hot water system
• EcoTrek (Lithium) batteries
• Aluminum Wheels
• Induction Stove
• Convenient screen door package
• 24 inch TV
• Volt Start

XL Platinum Package– $21,096

• Extended Sprinter body (24′ 1″)
• Diesel with Alde heat and hot water system
• Removable headboard
• Undermount A/C
• Drop down cabinet above bed
• Warp Core package:
• EcoTrek 1600 and 600 solar power
• Diesel with Alde heat and hot water system
• Induction stove

Does not include:

• Aluminum Wheels
• 24 inch TV
• Volt Start
• Convenient screen door package

Still available separately:

• Armoire (interchangeable with 2nd row captain seat)
• Dinette (Dinette with twin beds, also converts to King)
• Generator (2.5 KW Onan MicroLite conventional propane generator with remote start)
• Mattress (Makes 1st and 2nd row seats into a bed)
• Pantry (Rounded half pantry with granite countertop, replaces 2nd row captain seat)
• 4x4 drive

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by SiennaGuy

Still available separately:

• Armoire (interchangeable with 2nd row captain seat)
• Dinette (Dinette with twin beds, also converts to King)
• Generator (2.5 KW Onan MicroLite conventional propane generator with remote start)
• Mattress (Makes 1st and 2nd row seats into a bed)
• Pantry (Rounded half pantry with granite countertop, replaces 2nd row captain seat)
• 4x4 drive

To any of these packages, I think you can also separately order:

Ebony cabinetry
Silver/Champagne/Charcoal exterior

[SiennaGuy]

I stand corrected.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by SiennaGuy

I stand corrected.

Found one more. For some reason although the undermount AC unit is on the order form, it hasn't been included in the build profile. For sure, if the 1600ah Warp Core Option is chosen it requires ordering the XL option and perhaps that's also the case for the undermount AC.

If the GU underhood generator is selected, RT will still supply a propane stove but apparently not the Onan generator option.

IMO, the earlier build profile for the CS was less confusing than the current one.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Found one more. For some reason although the undermount AC unit is on the order form, it hasn't been included in the build profile. For sure, if the 1600ah Warp Core Option is chosen it requires ordering the XL option and perhaps that's also the case for the undermount AC.

If the GU underhood generator is selected, RT will still supply a propane stove but apparently not the Onan generator option.

IMO, the earlier build profile for the CS was less confusing than the current one.

i still cannot imagine anyone actually needs warp core. getting all that battery bank charged after it;s been emptied seems difficult to do unless you drive 10 straight hours every day or get plugged in which defeats the purpose of having so much power anyways?

if instead of concentrating on how much power you have you researched how to'regain' that power it seems an essentially impossible task unless your plugged in every day. A conundrum to me

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

i still cannot imagine anyone actually needs warp core. getting all that battery bank charged after it;s been emptied seems difficult to do unless you drive 10 straight hours every day or get plugged in which defeats the purpose of having so much power anyways?

if instead of concentrating on how much power you have you researched how to'regain' that power it seems an essentially impossible task unless your plugged in every day. A conundrum to me

Need? No. Really useful? Perhaps.

When we head east from the Pacific NW, we have days and days of driving ahead of us. Plenty of driving time to recharge. And most of the driving is through places that feel like an inferno after leaving the temperate Puget Sound area. I would love to be able to run AC through the night, preferably a quiet floor mounted unit.

Right now I can only run AC for an hour off of batteries. If I had the cargo capacity (no kids & dog), we would have put in a proper lithium bank so we could run AC 3-5 hours. In a decade when the kids are mostly grown, we'll be upgrading to a B with a large bank. I'm sure lithium prices will still be high in 10 years, so I doubt we'd go that large but price would be the only reason we don't.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Transit

Need? No. Really useful? Perhaps.

When we head east from the Pacific NW, we have days and days of driving ahead of us. Plenty of driving time to recharge. And most of the driving is through places that feel like an inferno after leaving the temperate Puget Sound area. I would love to be able to run AC through the night, preferably a quiet floor mounted unit.

Right now I can only run AC for an hour off of batteries. If I had the cargo capacity (no kids & dog), we would have put in a proper lithium bank so we could run AC 3-5 hours. In a decade when the kids are mostly grown, we'll be upgrading to a B with a large bank. I'm sure lithium prices will still be high in 10 years, so I doubt we'd go that large but price would be the only reason we don't.

heve you actually studied the numbers on this. although i said 10 hours of steady driving i actually think it will be far more than this. 1600 amp hours is a lot of electric that has to be generated.

[booster]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

heve you actually studied the numbers on this. although i said 10 hours of steady driving i actually think it will be far more than this. 1600 amp hours is a lot of electric that has to be generated.

Even at 200 amps out of the engine generator, you would get 1600ah in 8 hours. Of course there is the question of how many amps the Roadtrek system will put out continuously, as we have seen some data saying closer to 165 amps continuous average.

I would agree there are probably applications where it would be wanted, but not all that many due to the recharging issues.

How big is the shore charger in those units. To be useful overnight for a 1600ah bank, it would need to be near 200 amps, I would think.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

Even at 200 amps out of the engine generator, you would get 1600ah in 8 hours. Of course there is the question of how many amps the Roadtrek system will put out continuously, as we have seen some data saying closer to 165 amps continuous average.

I would agree there are probably applications where it would be wanted, but not all that many due to the recharging issues.

How big is the shore charger in those units. To be useful overnight for a 1600ah bank, it would need to be near 200 amps, I would think.

what would be the point of plugging in. i thought the goal was not to plug in?

the charger according to specs is 100 amps

[booster]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

what would be the point of plugging in. i thought the goal was not to plug in?

the charger according to specs is 100 amps

Battery recovery, so you can go off grid again for a length of time without having to drive all day or idle rediculously long. If you use 100ah per day, you could be in the boonies for two weeks, even without solar, if you had 1600ah of batteries. With a 200 amp charger and 8 hours overnight, or engine generator and 8 hour drive, you could do another two weeks in the same, or different, weeds. After two weeks we would be looking for long hot shower and laundry, so a campground would be due anyway, so would time out nicely. 14 days out, 1 day to reload and restock would be sweet. Add some solar and you could use more power each day for the same time, or stay out longer.

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

heve you actually studied the numbers on this. although i said 10 hours of steady driving i actually think it will be far more than this. 1600 amp hours is a lot of electric that has to be generated.

No, I haven't. But I'm not sure the ability to recharge 1600 amp hours in a day is necessary for that huge bank to be useful on the days one wants more power . New Bs cost 80-140k and then way beyond that if you've got the dough. If someone's already shelling out 140k, what's another 10k to double the 800 amp hours? (AM Solar is listing 800 amp hours for $10k)

In my case, I've seen our Trend's 220 amp alternator put out 80-100 amps while idling (I'm the primary driver, so I haven't monitored output while driving yet). It drops if we have the chassis AC cranked and it's a little higher if we're idling to recharge with the heat/AC off.

I'd love to kick that onan to the curb, but our young family is most definitely not to the point where we can yank a functioning generator only to turn around and add a second alternator and expanded lithium bank. Someday...

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

Battery recovery, so you can go off grid again for a length of time without having to drive all day or idle rediculously long. If you use 100ah per day, you could be in the boonies for two weeks, even without solar, if you had 1600ah of batteries. With a 200 amp charger and 8 hours overnight, or engine generator and 8 hour drive, you could do another two weeks in the same, or different, weeds. After two weeks we would be looking for long hot shower and laundry, so a campground would be due anyway, so would time out nicely. 14 days out, 1 day to reload and restock would be sweet. Add some solar and you could use more power each day for the same time, or stay out longer.

The warp core 1600ah option includes 600 watts of solar which can't hurt.

To be compatible with a 15 amp AC receptacle, the charger capacity would have to be limited to around 125 amps with a low power factor. I can't find any evidence that Roadtrek scales their charger capacity for the different ECO battery options installed, i.e. 400ah/800ah/1600ah. They initially offered a 200ah lithium option but discontinued it.

[Keyne]

Wow they appear to have just changed the website this week... they did the same for the Agile page. We just ordered our Agile at the Boston show on Saturday and I am glad I didn't have to choose a package. We were able to order what we wanted. The closest package to our order is the Outback and its $7k more...

I never liked how US car manufacturers do packages... I like the European ordering where I can choose exactly what I want. Have to wait of course but that's ok for us.

[SiennaGuy]

I don't remember seeing anything on their site about their Sprinters being insulated. If their vans had some insulation inside, the AC would use less electricity and the furnace would use less propane. Insulation has got to weigh less than extra batteries, extra solar panels, an extra large inverter and a larger propane tank.

[BBQ]

.

The Germans have landed LOL

I bet you this is Hymer's idea -- to streamline the manufacturing process.

Packages = Less variations = more efficient production line.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Packages = Less variations = more efficient production line.

= higher cost to the customer who ends up with options they neither want nor enjoy

[SiennaGuy]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

The Germans have landed LOL

I bet you this is Hymer's idea -- to streamline the manufacturing process.

Packages = Less variations = more efficient production line.

Packages make sense for manufacturers, cut costs and increase efficiency. There are three problems with the RoadTrek implementation.

Problem A: What's in the packages should make sense to customers.
People buy RVs with particular uses in mind (boondocking, staying in RV Parks, etc.). The packages should consist of options grouped together for a specific use, or be grouped around a level of luxury (basic, mid-level, deluxe).

Problem B: How the packages are presented should be clear.
The seven packages are not listed in any discernible order. They're not listed by price or by the length of the chassis. What you don't get in each particular package is not explained, so customers have to figure that out. When I did that, it took well over an hour.

Problem C: Comparing packages should be easy.
The way the items are listed and displayed on the site, it's difficult to compare the packages. You can view the details of only one package at a time. Items within a package are listed with commas between them. A list with bullet points would make it a bit easier to remember and compare the details of the packages. A table that showed the contents of all of the packages would be a major improvement.

The results of Problems A, B and C are confused customers. Confused customers often become apprehensive about their purchases and may postpone any decisions. This isn't good when you want to sell a product.

[gerrym51]

Do they actually say packages can't be changed?

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The warp core 1600ah option includes 600 watts of solar which can't hurt.

To be compatible with a 15 amp AC receptacle, the charger capacity would have to be limited to around 125 amps with a low power factor. I can't find any evidence that Roadtrek scales their charger capacity for the different ECO battery options installed, i.e. 400ah/800ah/1600ah. They initially offered a 200ah lithium option but discontinued it.

the ecotrek batteries use 5 amps per hour being turned on. the 8 ecotrek batteries could not charge unless turned on, you need all that solar just to break even.

However i think the best way to charge while driving is one at a time, i think that would be effective. there are people that do that and it works. However it's another layer of complication with these batteries.

Campskunk only has 800 amp hours. Mike Wendland i don't know.

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

To be compatible with a 15 amp AC receptacle, the charger capacity would have to be limited to around 125 amps with a low power factor. I can't find any evidence that Roadtrek scales their charger capacity for the different ECO battery options installed, i.e. 400ah/800ah/1600ah. They initially offered a 200ah lithium option but discontinued it.

In a hardwire situation, the charger doesn't have to be setup for an outlet, but they still do limit most to 125 amps in RV and marine stuff. You can, however, stack them. An innovative person would probably wire the system for 220 volt input at 50 amps, as that is what the campgrounds provide at the 50 amp sites. If the chargers were split on each leg of the 220v, you could run both when you had 220 available and one charger when on 110v power.

The Charger section of our Magnum MS2000 (100 amp charger) takes 15 amps, so two of that size would use 15 amps of the 220v input and leave plenty left for everything else and give you 200 amps of charging. On 110v you would be using 15 amps of whatever outlet size you were in, so half of a campground outlet and all or 2/3 of a home outlet unless you had a big one like at the campgrounds.

As with a lot of the stuff in this discussion, like even the 1600ah, there would be a very limited amount of people who would need/want to have their van that way, but I am sure there are some. Say, maybe you do mobile music concerts that eat a lot of power with amps and lights, and then go off somewhere to camp with power. Or maybe you have offgrid land that you go to often in the summer for long periods and only go to town every couple of weeks. Rare but possible, as is a lot of the what we are talking about, I think. For most, 400-800 would be plenty, but it sure would be nice not to had the high parasitic that so many of the big battery bank setups see, especially with the inverter on.